Valve Amps With OD Pedals... Why?

Sporky

AlexC said:

Sporky said:

Pedals are no less artificial than an amp. 

That’s some form of heresy, isn’t it!

I certainly hope so. True though. 

ecc83

Some "all valve" amplifiers (cough!) actually have an IC front end. Depending upon specific design this will overload, maybe not nicely, when hit with a pedal or it might have ~3 times the headroom of a triode and be impossible to overload with a 9V pedal.

The triode first stage is virtually impossible to overdrive with most passive guitars so any OD effects start with the second valve stage and onward. A 9V powered pedal will boost the guitar and start the first valve stage on its way to distortion.

Bottom line: the guitar/pedal/amp system is peculiar to THOSE components, no other combination will behave in the same way.

Diode Clippers. Said it before, what most folks call a "clipper" is in fact a diode feedback compressor and only 'clips' in extremis.

You need to see the schematic to know which you are talking about.

Dave.

ThePrettyDamned

Tone quest, step 1: play music with some equipment. Does it sound good? If so, skip to step 3.

Step 2: if not, change things around a bit. Repeat step one. 

Step 3: play music. 

Don't overthink things - if it sounds good and works for you, it's good. For some people, that means a bandit and some boss pedals, for others it means hand wired boutique amps and no stompboxes to colour the tone whatsoever.

rawk100

I use a TS type pedal in front of my Marshall to shape the tone. I have enough gain from the amp but the pedal tightens and compresses the sound and makes it chunkier which suits the hard rock/metal style that I'm playing at the moment. It still sounds like a cranked Marshall though.

flying_pie

I'm a vocalist as well as guitar player. I use a digital multi effects as a channel switcher for the amp and for pedal effects. Being able to switch from med gain to a lead boost and extra reverb or whatever with a single pedal stomp is a lifesaver especially when singing wordy phrases at the point I might be fiddling with the volume knob if I used a single channel amp. It's maybe not the "best" tone available but it's very practical and does the job . Sometimes practicality counts as much as sound.

stephen.wood125

I now have a Waza/Boss Blues Driver in with my HRD and use the level to actually attenuate slightly for neighbour friendly volume, I can still up the drive and get some break up... Important disclaimer: I'm largely an idiot and also a pretty rubbish guitarist, but I quite like the sounds I get even if the notes aren't necessarily in the correct order.

Adam_MD

timmysoft said:

Diodes are sexy AF 

This is very true I get way too exited checking out odd/unusual diodes these days.  

stickyfiddle

Short answer: Because pedals are FUN

Long answer: because pedals (or combinations of pedals) can give you sounds you can't get from an amp alone. Generally when you're playing in and around the zone where pick attack determines how much your sound is clean or crunchy. Add pedals to that and you have a surprisingly wide amount of variation in exactly how that clean/crunch thing works and sounds and feels. Amp + pedals can also relieve you of fxloop headaches, depending on how you set your basic amp sound.

In my case I'm very happy to accept that despite having a really really nice amp I think it sounds even better with a couple of $150 boxes in the signal chain.

sgosden

Real men cut the speaker cones for a distorted sound...

Hattigol

AlexC said:

@Hattigol Good point... I’ve yet to play the O2. So pedals rather than neighbour complaints then?

Give it a try. I had Fender valve amps for years but got sick of how damn loud they had to be to sound any good. I find Vox amps with a master volume can be tamed more easily to a useable tone but that might just be me.

As for drive pedals, something like a Rockett Archer just thickens the tone gorgeously when the amp is starting to break up. It enhances the tone rather than colouring it. All subjective though - get your ears on the case and enjoy whatever you get!

ESBlonde

flying_pie said:

I'm a vocalist as well as guitar player. I use a digital multi effects as a channel switcher for the amp and for pedal effects. Being able to switch from med gain to a lead boost and extra reverb or whatever with a single pedal stomp is a lifesaver especially when singing wordy phrases at the point I might be fiddling with the volume knob if I used a single channel amp. It's maybe not the "best" tone available but it's very practical and does the job . Sometimes practicality counts as much as sound.

That had to have a Wiz

SunDevil

Sod the pedals - get a decent attenuator  and drive the amp

Not that pedals can’t sound fine, but rolling back the guitar volume gives you an infinite palette of edge of breakup and up that any number of OD pedals never gave me

I used to have 3-4 tones using OD pedals - now I have one, or 500, depending on how you look at it

ICBM

SunDevil said:

Sod the pedals - get a decent attenuator  and drive the amp

No reason you can’t do both at the same time.

Creed_Clicks

Long time lurking since I posted here. Need to get stuck into this forum again.
I sold my tube amp and am using a Quilter 101. I've always used pedals for distortion etc.
Though I love the sound of an amp just breaking up, I can get a similar sound on the Quilter, and it's more like a monitor with a good clean sound base for me.
Would I get another tube amp? Maybe, but now it's not feasible.
I do remember the first time I put a Big Muff through a cranked Fender Deville,and it was great.

57Deluxe

there was no 'purpose' in valve amps - that was the technology of the day. All, the by product of inefficient circuits/parts and mass produced valve inconsistencies and consequently what the collective mythology has been built upon.

Use them as required.

Reverend

Some of the greatest pure amp drive tones that get cited as the best examples of not needing pedals actually have boosts between guitar and amp. Angus and Eddie for example. 

randella

It has quite a bit to do with the gain characteristics of each component.  A valve's gain curve, when looked at on a graph, is non-linear.  Everything else being equal it'll amplify a smaller signal more than it'll amplify a larger one.  As it is pushed towards saturation, the result is firstly compression of the signal peaks and then more pronounced distortion.

A transistor is generally linear.  When it's just about saturated, it'll amplify the signal without any distortion by the same amount (gain) as a small signal that's nowhere near the saturation level.  As soon as the signal is big enough to saturate the component, it'll clip and you'll hear distortion.  No initial compression, just clipping.

The net result is that the "soft-clipping" of the valve will introduce even-order harmonics into the signal, and the transistor's "hard-clipping" will introduce odd-order harmonics.  One is more pleasing to the ear than the other, I'll leave you to guess which .

However, a pure valve signal can be spiced up with a few odd-order harmonics from a solid-state drive stage.  This gives your sound some of what's usually described as 'bite' or 'grit'.

Mix to taste and don't ever let anyone tell you you're doing it 'wrong'.  If you like the sound then you like the sound.  Doesn't matter a jot what the internet says.

JMP220478

AlexC said:

I'm looking at getting a new amp in the next couple of years...Vox, Blackstar, Victory maybe. I've never owned a valve amp, but have played through many over the years and there's no denying that they sound great cranked up. And this has got me to thinking - surely putting a circuit based dirt box in front of it slightly misses the point. Boosters, I get... Modulation I get. But if part of the appeal of a valve amp is 'that sound' why put an artificial sound in the chain?
Thoughts, please... Am I missing something? Or am I just misunderstanding how 'sound' works?

what have you been using so far, solid state ; modelling amp etc ?

randella

57Deluxe said:

there was no 'purpose' in valve amps - that was the technology of the day. All, the by product of inefficient circuits/parts and mass produced valve inconsistencies and consequently what the collective mythology has been built upon.

Use them as required.

Also, this.

If we'd have had reliable, cheap transistors in the 1940's when L. Fender was making his first foray into musical instrument amplification, we'd be hearing a totally different sound today.

That hallowed valve distortion that we all adore and revere was a happy accident.  The aforementioned Fender didn't actually approve - he liked it clean.  Then again, he apparently never thought much to Jimi Hendrix either. Takes all sorts to make a world.

AlexC

@JMP220478 For the last decade I’ve used my Peavey Vyper 30. A terrific modelling amp. Also has a ton of fx built in - inc ring modulator and reverse for all your psychedelic needs. Loud enough for gigs. Reliable. Never had a problem with it. Also got the controller pedal, which means I can switch through 12 presets and that doubles up as a volume and wah pedal.
My pedal board amounts to 7 pedals - all of which (aside from looper and tuner) I could happily live without if I had to!