It's only a bit of wood FFS...

skunkwerx

I love that I like certain things.. it means for £999 I can get all the guitar I ever want and need. I’ve seen very nice guitars a lot higher in price.. but they contain hardly anything extra to my eyes except being made outside Korea. 

But for that £999 I would buy myself an Esp Ltd doublecut. Some of those quilted tops in green or purple with the abalone binding are seriously sexy! 

Now maybe if it were compared to a £1500 quilted maple top in the flesh, I might be able to see some more quality or something... but not enough to justify an extra half a grand. 

martin8708

Are we talking about the difference between a Gibson Custom R9 and R8.

I actually prefer the R8 , I'm not really into coffee table guitars .

Plus , if you have a flash guitar, everybody thinks your some kind of guitar virtuoso , which I'm certainly not . ( a bit like turning up at a gig with a 5 or 6 string bass, everybody expects amazing bass solos from you )

WezV

martin8708 said:

Plus , if you have a flash guitar, everybody thinks your some kind of dentist

FTFY

Danielsguitars

have a look at highly figured angel step maple, it gets absurd but the only highly figured stuff I'd like to try,  i don't normally like the highly flamed stuff but some of that is just beautiful to look at

rlw

I love the really fancy tops and am beginning to understand the basis of the costings but really, nearly a thousand pounds for a piece of wood you couldn’t make a tea tray from :-)

Jez6345789

The other fact is you won’t find 1500 maple on a Squire so there is also the fact that these pieces are sitting on a higher level guitar in terms of fit and finish. Of course manufacturers are buying better and have buying power its their business to buy quality at the best price they can but it’s a commercial market so the woodseller can sell to another company who will pay more

in the end enjoy what works for you.

thegummy

Things sold as "for guitar" have a markup.

An electrical component like a capacitor sold for guitars on guitar websites are a couple of quid each; capacitors sold on electronics websites are like 70p for 10 lol

rlw

martin8708 said:

Are we talking about the difference between a Gibson Custom R9 and R8.

I actually prefer the R8 , I'm not really into coffee table guitars .

Plus , if you have a flash guitar, everybody thinks your some kind of guitar virtuoso , which I'm certainly not . ( a bit like turning up at a gig with a 5 or 6 string bass, everybody expects amazing bass solos from you )

I was thinking PRS really.

guitars4you

octatonic said:

The thing is, and I mean this with respect, you don't really understand the economics of guitar building.

There is something called the 'rule of four'.
If something costs a manufacturer £100 to buy then it has to be charged to the customer at 4 times that to make it economical.

There are a lot of reasons for this but you have to factor rejection (some bits of wood look fine when you buy them but as you start cutting away you find flaws that you cannot see otherwise), machining errors (these happen) as well as the cost of marketing the products, shipping them to suppliers, allowing for dealer margin and a bit of profit to justify doing it at all, as well as paying staff and for the buying and replacing machinery.
Oh and rent, tax, electricity and all that.

The big boys can buy in volume and cut wood down, they can use leverage on suppliers to get things cheaper.

aord43 said:

As in so many cases, you are not paying for just the cost of the materials, but also the skills, knowledge and expertise that went into sourcing and working with it, not to mention the time.
Not saying any specific example is worth it but it's not as simple as "the price of a piece of wood".

excellent post and comments above - both valid points

In simple terms - I can buy exactly the same ingredients as Jamie Oliver to make a curry or a chilli  - I wonder whose will taste the better of the two - And as such who can charge the most if we both had a high street restaurant ? 

Sporky

On the it's-harder-to-work ft, I did a cufflink box in Afzelia a few years back  Horrible tightly interlocked grain, even a scraper produced tearout. I had to thickness it all with the CNC machine and a giant surfacing bit. Took hours. 

fandango

guitars4you said:

In simple terms - I can buy exactly the same ingredients as Jamie Oliver to make a curry or a chilli  - I wonder whose will taste the better of the two - And as such who can charge the most if we both had a high street restaurant ? 

This nails it.

In the eye of the purchaser, the price of something is in it's perceived value. If there's no difference in perception between a handmade or artisan item and a mass produced machine-made item, then there will be that dissonance in the buyer's mind, as to why he should pay more for the artisan crafted item.

The same goes for professional services. A Client does not only pay for a consultant's 'time', but also for the qualifications, professional status and years of experience, that underpins and enables the consultant to do what he does.

In the eye of the maker/producer/artisan, he would want a fair recompense for the time and skill he has put into making something. There are those who recognise this, and are willing (and able) to pay the extra.

The buyer has to make compromises. But the artisan doesn't. He can make the best, relying on at least one person appreciating what he's made to then buy it.

rlw

Just going to Google Afzelia.

Blimey.  The endgrain on that is terrifying in the pictures.  Are you mad by any chance?

rlw

guitars4you said:

octatonic said:

The thing is, and I mean this with respect, you don't really understand the economics of guitar building.

There is something called the 'rule of four'.
If something costs a manufacturer £100 to buy then it has to be charged to the customer at 4 times that to make it economical.

There are a lot of reasons for this but you have to factor rejection (some bits of wood look fine when you buy them but as you start cutting away you find flaws that you cannot see otherwise), machining errors (these happen) as well as the cost of marketing the products, shipping them to suppliers, allowing for dealer margin and a bit of profit to justify doing it at all, as well as paying staff and for the buying and replacing machinery.
Oh and rent, tax, electricity and all that.

The big boys can buy in volume and cut wood down, they can use leverage on suppliers to get things cheaper.

aord43 said:

As in so many cases, you are not paying for just the cost of the materials, but also the skills, knowledge and expertise that went into sourcing and working with it, not to mention the time.
Not saying any specific example is worth it but it's not as simple as "the price of a piece of wood".

excellent post and comments above - both valid points

In simple terms - I can buy exactly the same ingredients as Jamie Oliver to make a curry or a chilli  - I wonder whose will taste the better of the two - And as such who can charge the most if we both had a high street restaurant ? 

So, in a roundabout way, there is a bit of bullshit involved as Jamie bullshits better than most.  I bet your's, or mine, would tast just the same.........

octatonic

Now you're just trolling.

Sporky

rlw said:

Just going to Google Afzelia.

Blimey.  The endgrain on that is terrifying in the pictures.  Are you mad by any chance?

It's beautiful, and a substantial board of it cost me £3 from the local timber place.

If you've got a router sled or thickness sander then it's not too hard to work, but it takes ages. I think getting the stuff flat and smooth took 3/4 of the total build time. 

Philly_Q

guitars4you said:

In simple terms - I can buy exactly the same ingredients as Jamie Oliver to make a curry or a chilli  - I wonder whose will taste the better of the two ? 

Yours probably, all he can do is overpriced pseudo-Italian stuff drowned in olive oil.

57Deluxe

Q: What is the better VFM - £1500 guitar or £1500 amp?

(certainly not ANY pedal)

Whitecat

57Deluxe said:

Q: What is the better VFM - £1500 guitar or £1500 amp?

(certainly not ANY pedal)

I actually think that at £1500 it depends. 

But by the time you hit £2500+ it’s almost certainly the amp, every time. IMO of course.

Andyjr1515

rlw said:

Is the price of a guitar sized piece of wood, not even enough to make a whole guitar,  such that some firms can charge an extra £1500 to very silly indeed just for a fancy top? 

Or is it bollocks?

Prefacing with the 'this is impossible to answer to everyone's satisfaction', I'm not even sure I'm totally clear what the question is.

Are you saying: "This guitar that can be bought with a plain body for £300 is, with exactly the same spec by the same manufacturer, other than a fancy solid top, offered at £1800" ?

Or

"I can buy a perfectly playable Epiphone solid body LP for £200, but this Gibson Les Paul with flamed maple top is £1700" ?

Or something else?

I ask because it's a different answer for the first two questions and it will be a different answer to both if it is a different question.

thegummy

rlw said:

guitars4you said:

octatonic said:

The thing is, and I mean this with respect, you don't really understand the economics of guitar building.

There is something called the 'rule of four'.
If something costs a manufacturer £100 to buy then it has to be charged to the customer at 4 times that to make it economical.

There are a lot of reasons for this but you have to factor rejection (some bits of wood look fine when you buy them but as you start cutting away you find flaws that you cannot see otherwise), machining errors (these happen) as well as the cost of marketing the products, shipping them to suppliers, allowing for dealer margin and a bit of profit to justify doing it at all, as well as paying staff and for the buying and replacing machinery.
Oh and rent, tax, electricity and all that.

The big boys can buy in volume and cut wood down, they can use leverage on suppliers to get things cheaper.

aord43 said:

As in so many cases, you are not paying for just the cost of the materials, but also the skills, knowledge and expertise that went into sourcing and working with it, not to mention the time.
Not saying any specific example is worth it but it's not as simple as "the price of a piece of wood".

excellent post and comments above - both valid points

In simple terms - I can buy exactly the same ingredients as Jamie Oliver to make a curry or a chilli  - I wonder whose will taste the better of the two - And as such who can charge the most if we both had a high street restaurant ? 

So, in a roundabout way, there is a bit of bullshit involved as Jamie bullshits better than most.  I bet your's, or mine, would tast just the same.........

Do you think Oliver is a bad chef or do you mean no chef is better at cooking than Abby lay person?