Can't help feeling a bit sad and disappointed about Vox...

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VoxmanVoxman Frets: 4718
edited April 2018 in Amps
...because I think a once great name has lost its way a bit.   For me, with some notable exceptions, it's quality and innovation has gone astray.

It's reputation has pretty much been built and revolved around two great mainstay amps, the AC15 and AC30...although its Pathfinder amps are also well regarded too.  There have been the smaller AC4 and AC10 and from time to time they've reissued things and tried to come out with other amps.  Inevitably some have been hit and miss. The Night-train is a great little amp and the new MV50 range are a great idea.

But a lot of the time Vox seems to have been struggling to capture former glories rolling out umpteen anniversary models, limited editions in different colours, and it's reinvented the AC15 and AC30 so many times I've lost count...some more successfully than others (anyone remember the failed white-dialled Classic Plus range?).  However, these two amps were a tough legacy to follow so I can kind of see Vox' dilemma here.

But It's within the modelling sector that things have really gone down hill. Aside from its ever popular little head phone amps it has gone from making innovative gear aimed at the gigging player to lower quality, less well featured and cheaper 'bedroom toys,' or have misjudged pricing so badly that the product failed commercially. 

It's Valvetronix range started with the 'blue' amps. These (esp the improved VTX) are still well regarded, were an innovative mix of valve and digital technology, sounded great, were well designed and were so easy to use. Similarly the Tonelab SE and LE that were built like a tank with great tone, features, and heavy duty power supplies. The designs were market leading & some 17/14 years on ('Blues'/TL's) aside from size & weight, continue to hold-up very well against modern gear, and still sound really good.  

What followed has been a trail of lower quality, lower featured budget built re-imaginings aimed at bedroom players. The once decent speakers have been replaced with budget low cost speakers and good design and flexibility swapped for worse control, worse 'out' options, lack of decent edit software, and questionable gimmicks and features like built in speakers in the TLEX.  The Tonelab ST was a 2 button toy and the TLEX that followed was poorly designed for gigging with no patch naming, no edit software, a clumsy 2 button tread to switch between stomp and preset mode, and poor parameter control.  It has now been withdrawn leaving the little Stomplab as Vox' only mfx offering.  Instead of developing the originals it made them worse and Vox lack of focus has meant it currently has nothing worthy to take on the likes of the Boss Katana and umpteen mfx units ranging from the Zoom g3n/g5n to Line 6 Helix/LT.  

The Valvetronix VTX150 was decent and a great lightweight loud amp although the cab was too small. But its price point was crazy and inevitably was withdrawn. And the new nano MVX150 looks destined to fall by the wayside for the same reason even before it hits the stores. Customers are now wary of spending valve amp money for digital gear the value of which will likely drop like a stone within 12 mths.

As I said at outset, I just think Vox has lost its way a bit.


I started out with nothing..... but I've still got most of it left (Seasick Steve)
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Comments

  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24578
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71956
    I think the same could be said of them at any point after 1970, or maybe even earlier.

    The brand has been repeatedly sold and the owners have never seemed to understand about quality and consistency. Even the original AC15s and 30s are a bit ropey for build quality, largely because various parts were downgraded and subcontracted out to cut costs, and that's been the pattern ever since - just when they seem to have got a really decent product, they have to ruin it by cheapening it.

    If it wasn't for the connection with the Beatles and the happy accident of creating one of the truly greatest-sounding amps of all time, they would have been a footnote in history decades ago.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • VoxmanVoxman Frets: 4718
    ICBM said:
    Even the original AC15s and 30s are a bit ropey for build quality, largely because various parts were downgraded and subcontracted out to cut costs, and that's been the pattern ever since - just when they seem to have got a really decent product, they have to ruin it by cheapening it.

    If it wasn't for the connection with the Beatles and the happy accident of creating one of the truly greatest-sounding amps of all time, they would have been a footnote in history decades ago.
    I feel the same @ICBM re the 'Blue' Valvetronix and TLSE/LE - instead of building on what it had, Vox cheapened them, even dumbing down the 'valvereactor' circuit.  And it's that 'budget/dumbing-down' that has hurt them. 
    I started out with nothing..... but I've still got most of it left (Seasick Steve)
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  • randellarandella Frets: 4088
    It seems to me that the big amp and instrument manufacturers went through a period of intense innovation in the 50s and 60s, and then turned overnight into purveyors of heratige. 

    Watch when Marshall bring out a new amp, and the consequent explosion of pissing and moaning when it’s not a turret-board 100W Superlead retailing at £399.

    We’re all to blame. 
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  • VoxmanVoxman Frets: 4718
    randella said:
    It seems to me that the big amp and instrument manufacturers went through a period of intense innovation in the 50s and 60s, and then turned overnight into purveyors of heratige. 

    Watch when Marshall bring out a new amp, and the consequent explosion of pissing and moaning when it’s not a turret-board 100W Superlead retailing at £399.

    We’re all to blame. 
    I hear you @randella. ; But there are some differences e.g. whereas Marshall has only recently entered the modelling arena with CODE, Vox has gone backwards. 
    I started out with nothing..... but I've still got most of it left (Seasick Steve)
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  • randellarandella Frets: 4088
    Yep. I was being a bit flippant but I stand by my point. 

    You’re right about Vox. They were finally making some headway in getting away from the endless ballachingly-expensive AC30 reissues but the wheels seem to have come off. 

    I wouldn’t want to be head of product design at one of these places, that’s for sure.
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  • randellarandella Frets: 4088
    Now I think about it, I had a chance of a decent AC30 about 20 years ago for peanuts. I didn’t of course, it’d have been no use to me then and even less use now - I could have made myself a few quid though. 
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  • 57Deluxe57Deluxe Frets: 7329
    I would have a an AC15 Twin if I had room and inclination. That sounds better than a current 30
    <Vintage BOSS Upgrades>
    __________________________________
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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31368
    There are some rose tinted glasses in use here, Vox were trashy, flimsy and unreliable almost from Day 1, it's just that some of that trash sounded awesome. 

    A bit like Watkins, apart from the sounding awesome bit.  
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  • VoxmanVoxman Frets: 4718
    edited April 2018
    p90fool said:
    There are some rose tinted glasses in use here, Vox were trashy, flimsy and unreliable almost from Day 1, it's just that some of that trash sounded awesome. 

    A bit like Watkins, apart from the sounding awesome bit.  
    I hear what you're saying @p90fool but I think you're possibly being a little overly harsh. Having been playing for well over 45 years I've used a lot of Vox gear including older and newer AC30s and AC15s and I owned a 1974 6 input AC30 for a few years, and I got my AD120VTX back in 2004. In all that time I've never had any Vox gear crap out on me. That's more than I can say for Fender, Marshall, Line 6, Laney, Mesa, Sound City, Selmer, WEM, and others.  In fact the only other amps I've owned that never gave me any problem is Orange and Sessionette. 
    I started out with nothing..... but I've still got most of it left (Seasick Steve)
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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31368
    @Voxman ;I probably am being overly harsh because I've never found the aggro worth the effort with the old ones and have hated all their modellers since the very first ones came out.

    I've heard you get great sounds out of them many times to be fair, they just sound brittle in my hands.  
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71956
    The ‘74 AC30 is one of the very few cases where a new brand owner made a serious attempt to improve the quality, by returning it to the hand-wired construction and ply cabinet, although they did ditch the valve rectifier. It didn’t last though - within only a few years it had been replaced by more junk...

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 9654
    Could be just the guitar amp industry in general not just Vox
    Please note my communication is not very good, so please be patient with me
    soundcloud.com/thecolourbox-1
    youtube.com/@TheColourboxMusic
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  • thermionicthermionic Frets: 9499
    edited April 2018
    I wish they'd re-release the desktop Tonelab. It sits on my desk and 90% of my playing is done through it - mainly a driven AC30 sound, with occasional Fender clean or JCM800 sounds. There's something about the valve output stage that really works to make it feel like I have a loud real amp miked up in the next room. The pots are getting scratchy now though which plays havoc with the digital part of the circuit. I'm not interested in a floor model, the desktop format is ideal for plugging in and getting a great sound with no fuss, for general playing or recording ideas. Great product.
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  • Duppy03Duppy03 Frets: 104
    I had a Vox AC15TBX a while back, the last British made ones, at the Marshall plant. It was a fantastic amp, as good sounding as anything else i’ve had and it never let me down. Would like one again some day.

    Not long ago I picked up an AV30, admtidley as a bedroom amp, but it sounds great, I really like it. Loud enough for jam nights too.

    I agree though that 90% of their catalog doesn’t interest me and a lot of it looks like toys.




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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10356
    I wish they'd re-release the desktop Tonelab. It sits on my desk and 90% of my playing is done through it - mainly a driven AC30 sound, with occasional Fender clean or JCM800 sounds. There's something about the valve output stage that really works to make it feel like I have a loud real amp miked up in the next room. The pots are getting scratchy now though which plays havoc with the digital part of the circuit. I'm not interested in a floor model, the desktop format is ideal for plugging in and getting a great sound with no fuss, for general playing or recording ideas. Great product.

    I did change some in the SE version, they were linear 10K from memory 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • thermionicthermionic Frets: 9499
    edited April 2018
    I think I have the service manual downloaded from somewhere with the schematics and test procedures. Getting the right physical size components is what's been putting me off so far.

    I was reading through the patent application a few weeks ago, very interesting - the ECC83 definitely does work as a push-pull Class A/Class AB output stage.
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  • VoxmanVoxman Frets: 4718
    edited April 2018
    thermionic said:b
    I think I have the service manual downloaded from somewhere with the schematics and test procedures. Getting the right physical size components is what's been putting me off so far.

    I was reading through the patent application a few weeks ago, very interesting - the ECC83 definitely does switch work as a push-pull Class A/Class AB output stage.
    If you can't find it the Tonelab service manual is available for download at Valvetronix.net

    If you have any problem accessing it drop me a pm with your email and I'll send it to you. 
    I started out with nothing..... but I've still got most of it left (Seasick Steve)
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  • photekphotek Frets: 1462
    Fortunately Vox have made this:

    https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Vox-Starstream-Type-1-Plus-Black-Frame-and-Black-Body/2ATP

    Guaranteed to bring back interest in the brand.
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  • MonstronautMonstronaut Frets: 193
    edited April 2018
    The MVs are fantastic. Nutube is as interesting a concept as anything from any other manufacturer at the moment. I wouldn't say they've lost their way.
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