LJ20 Help Please!

JerkMoans

Exciting times at Schloss Moans: my recent eBay snaffle LJ20 just showed up on the back of a UPS wagon. 

Trembling with anticipation I tear into the packaging.  As agreed with the seller he had removed the valves and carefully wrapped and numbered each one, and sent me a diagram showing where to replace them.

Back off, valves all in place as directed, plug in, flick switch and ... nothing, save it tripped out the entire kitchen circuit.  Switched it all off, pulled the tubes out and replaced them again, plugged in, flicked switch and again, nothing from the amp but the trip switch goes.

Clearly something ain't right: I'm no electrician and suspect it's probably something quite simple, but would be grateful for any suggestions..

Gassage

Have you got the reverb plugged into the extension cab socket there?

Wazmeister

Gassage said:

Have you got the reverb plugged into the extension cab socket there?

x2

JerkMoans

Thanks for the observations chaps, IS that an extension cab socket?  I can't see anywhere else for the cable from the reverb unit to go..  Think this may be a slightly older model, as it bears only passing resemblance to the guts of the thing in the manual I downloaded (this one has no bass cut switch between the preamp tubes, for example)   Anyway tried unplugging the reverb cable and precisely the same thing happened again

Moe_Zambeek

Any of the amp fuses damaged, including the one in the plug? Are they all the correct values? Have you tried plugging it into sockets elsewhere in the house?

Gassage

One thing- get a hoover and just run the nozzle around the valve seats with the valves out. Occassionally, an iron filing off the tube legs comes astray and arcs inside those sockets during transit. I have had this happen to me and it makes an almighty mains load and trips everything out.

RiftAmps

Remove all valves, disconnect reverb unit, replace any fuses and try turning it on. If the fuse still blows then it'll need a trip to a tech

ecc83

 "nothing, save it tripped out the entire kitchen circuit. " Was that an earth trip (RCD) or a current breaker? If the former that is VERY worrying, get the amp PAT tested ASAP . Tell the seller but if there is a short/leak to earth it really should not leave your possession until made safe, even if that means chopping the mains cable off!

Dave.

ICBM

Tripping the ring main breaker is worrying - that indicates a fault on the mains side of the power transformer. If it was on the amp side it should blow the amp's fuse rather than trip the breaker - although as Gassage said, if it's bad enough it could do both.

Try what RiftAmps said first, but my guess is it will still trip.

A couple of things to check, which I can't quite see clearly enough in the pic -

Where does the mains earth wire go to inside the amp?

How much clearance is there between the underside of the tag strip where it says 0-120-240 and the chassis?

JerkMoans

Thanks chaps: going to work through your advice in order....

JerkMoans

Moe_Zambeek said:

Any of the amp fuses damaged, including the one in the plug? Are they all the correct values? Have you tried plugging it into sockets elsewhere in the house?

Tried plugging it in in the man cave and it tripped the RCD there, too.  The fuse in the amp looks fine; am trying a new 5 amp job in the plug...

ICBM

JerkMoans said:

The fuse in the amp looks fine; am trying a new 5 amp job in the plug...

It won't be that.

JerkMoans

Thanks for all the suggestions and help, chaps: Jesse at Lazy J reached out and to cut a long story short the amp is going in to him over the weekend for closer consideration.  Remarkably the thing was blowing out the RCD before being switched on: just as soon as I turned on the power at the wal, but before flicking the switch on the amp to 'on'...   I would imagine in electrical terms that is 'not good'.

I've removed the pictures at Jesse's request: hope that's ok.  I will update with findings/progress if anyone is interested.  Apparently it's a v early/old one, made in 2009.  So: "vintage mojo" and all that malarkey.

Bit of a funny day.  Excitement tempered with frustration and anticlimax.  But, worse things happen at sea and all that

Wiz's duly awarded to all.

JerkMoans

ecc83 said:

 "nothing, save it tripped out the entire kitchen circuit. " Was that an earth trip (RCD) or a current breaker? If the former that is VERY worrying, get the amp PAT tested ASAP . Tell the seller but if there is a short/leak to earth it really should not leave your possession until made safe, even if that means chopping the mains cable off!

Dave.

The RCD.  Exciting times.  It isn't getting plugged into anything again until it's been thoroughly investigated/fixed by someone who knows what they're doing.  In this case, the guy that built it...

JerkMoans

Wazmeister said:

Gassage said:

Have you got the reverb plugged into the extension cab socket there?

x2

Confirmed: no extension cab socket on this one.  So at least it wasn't that blowing Schloss Moans's fuses

ICBM

JerkMoans said:

Thanks for all the suggestions and help, chaps: Jesse at Lazy J reached out and to cut a long story short the amp is going in to him over the weekend for closer consideration.  Remarkably the thing was blowing out the RCD before being switched on: just as soon as I turned on the power at the wal, but before flicking the switch on the amp to 'on'...   I would imagine in electrical terms that is 'not good'.

Not remarkable - that most likely indicates a short from the neutral side of the power supply to earth, since only the live side is switched. (I could see that in the pic.) Not extremely dangerous, but not good. In theory there isn't a voltage between neutral and earth - in practice there often is, and it can be enough to cause a leak that will trip the RCD. The one in my workshop is sensitive enough that it will trip with a neutral to earth short as well.

Lebarque

Gutted for you on your NAD, @JerkMoans , however i guess the great thing about handwired amps is that they can be repaired easily. I've no doubt that Jesse will have it sounding awesome in a jiffy. Just gotta be patient for a day or two. I've heard stories about Jesse's service - if it's an old one, I wouldn't be surprised if he went through it and updated and improved bits and bobs.

JerkMoans

Lebarque said:

Gutted for you on your NAD, @JerkMoans , however i guess the great thing about handwired amps is that they can be repaired easily. I've no doubt that Jesse will have it sounding awesome in a jiffy. Just gotta be patient for a day or two. I've heard stories about Jesse's service - if it's an old one, I wouldn't be surprised if he went through it and updated and improved bits and bobs.

Thanks, amigo.

He was quite animated about it: seemed to be looking forward to getting a really old one back, from a time before many of his innovations were installed. Could all turn out rather well in the sense of having the thing worked over by the master.

Lebarque

JerkMoans said:

Lebarque said:

Gutted for you on your NAD, @JerkMoans , however i guess the great thing about handwired amps is that they can be repaired easily. I've no doubt that Jesse will have it sounding awesome in a jiffy. Just gotta be patient for a day or two. I've heard stories about Jesse's service - if it's an old one, I wouldn't be surprised if he went through it and updated and improved bits and bobs.

Thanks, amigo.

He was quite animated about it: seemed to be looking forward to getting a really old one back, from a time before many of his innovations were installed. Could all turn out rather well in the sense of having the thing worked over by the master.

^ Yep, that's what I think will happen. Let us know how you get on.

McToot

Mr Moans - it's a bummer that your new (old-ish) toy hasn't allowed you to play just yet, but threads like this surely serve to re-affirm that there's nothing quite like great customer service, especially from high-profile booteekers. You might pay quite a bit for the amps, but that's a seriously good response from JH.  

Wazmeister

JerkMoans said:

Lebarque said:

Gutted for you on your NAD, @JerkMoans , however i guess the great thing about handwired amps is that they can be repaired easily. I've no doubt that Jesse will have it sounding awesome in a jiffy. Just gotta be patient for a day or two. I've heard stories about Jesse's service - if it's an old one, I wouldn't be surprised if he went through it and updated and improved bits and bobs.

Thanks, amigo.

He was quite animated about it: seemed to be looking forward to getting a really old one back, from a time before many of his innovations were installed. Could all turn out rather well in the sense of having the thing worked over by the master.

Whe I visited Jess' place I got the impression he was quite excited about the 'older' ones for some reason...

He's a top man and will get you sorted.

He repaired my pedal as well in a jiffy.