Mixer - Outboard gear connections

Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 14587
edited April 2018 in Live
I’ve acquired a few bits of outboard processing kit and I’ve come up with a connection plan for hooking it all into our PA setup.  I think I’ve done a reasonable job but wondered if a more experienced eye could suggest any improvements.

Our PA consists of a Behringer 2442 Eurorack mixer and a pair of active Carlsbro Gammas with a separate bass bin.  The outboard gear is (all Behringer), a FBQ2496 Feedback Destroyer, a MDX4600 Compander/Limiter, a HA4700 Quad channel headphone amp (for the wired in-ears) and a DSP8024 Digital EQ.

This is my layout plan...



Mixer channel inputs are:-
Ch1 = Lead Singer’s Mic
Ch2 = Pianist’s Mic
Ch3 = My Mic
Ch4 = My Guitar
Ch5 = Bass Guitar
Ch13&14 = Keyboard (in Stereo)
Ch15&16 = Probably drum overheads

The lead singist’s vocals go into Ch1, then get sent via the channel insert point into the left channel of the Feedback Destroyer.  From here it goes to the Dynamics Processor (Ch3) then back to the desk.

The pianist’s and my vocals are assigned ONLY to Submix 1 and this is sent to the other channel of the Feedback Destroyer.  This way, the lead vocal sound will only get the notch filters it needs to kill feedback from his mic.  Myself and the pianist will both be affected by any notch filters that get applied to kill feedback from either of our mics.  The lead vocal sound isn't therefore hacked to pieces by filters meant for our mics etc.  The lead vocalist also gets the dynamics processing and we don't.

After mine and the pianist’s vocals leave the Feedback Destroyer, they re-enter the desk on Ch6.  (It has to be done like this as I'm making sure all three mics (and only the mics) go through the Feedback Destroyer - which only has two channels).

Aux Sends 1, 2 & 4 are the three independent in-ear monitor mixes.  (We cannot use Aux 3 as it is being used to send signals to the effects unit for the main output and we need a bit of reverb on them).

These Aux sends go to channels 1, 2 & 4 on the Compander/ limiter to protect our eardrums, then onto the headphone amplifier and the in-ears.  As we only have three monitor mixes but four channels on the headphone amp, I've split Aux 4 so it goes to Ch3 & 4 on the headphone amp.  This way, whilst whoever is using in-ears on Ch3 and 4 will be getting the same mix (Aux4), they will have independent control over the volume, bass & treble of their individual earphones.

NOW....  I’m looking at it again and wondering if I might be better putting the Compander/Limiter in channel (or subgroup) insert points instead, thereby getting dynamics processing on the main mix as well as the monitor mix.  I initially only got that unit as a brick wall Limiter to protect our eardrums, but if I can utilise it for more than just that, then all the better.

Any thoughts ?
Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
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Comments

  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 14587
    That'll be a 'no' then !

    I've been thinking more about it and I can't see a way to improve on the setup without compromising ear safety.  If I put the MDX4600 in the vocal mic insert chains then, yes, I'd get dynamics processing on those, and the peak limiters would still stop any transients on those channels from reaching anyone's in-ears.  However, there would be nothing to stop any transients from any of the channels that didn't have the MDX in the insert chain (instruments / drum overheads), so basically - no protection.

    The only way to ensure safety for the band's lugoles is to have it the way it is in the diagram.


    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
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  • mr-macmr-mac Frets: 198
    Insert point for compressor if only for one channel.. Has desk got groupings as well?
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 3778
    Emp_Fab said:
    That'll be a 'no' then !

    I've been thinking more about it and I can't see a way to improve on the setup without compromising ear safety.  If I put the MDX4600 in the vocal mic insert chains then, yes, I'd get dynamics processing on those, and the peak limiters would still stop any transients on those channels from reaching anyone's in-ears.  However, there would be nothing to stop any transients from any of the channels that didn't have the MDX in the insert chain (instruments / drum overheads), so basically - no protection.

    The only way to ensure safety for the band's lugoles is to have it the way it is in the diagram.


    There's not really any way of protecting ears unless you know the impedance of the IEM's and the sensitivity per mw .... 

    Imagine trying to set a max level of  volume from an amp into a speaker cab. Now change that cab for one with a sensitivity Celestion ..... nothings changed on the amp but now the sound is much louder  ! Same deal with IEM's .... you could work out a patch for limiting into something popular like 16R Shure SE215's but the same patch could limit too soon or not soon enough for another brand or model of IEM's 

    Personally I don't use a limiter on mine although it's there if I want one, I have a volume control on my cable and so can turn down my IEM's very quickly if needed. It's generally not needed though as bands on IEM's tend to become disciplined once they know suddenly turning up  their amp volume  \ keys \ etc causes everyone else a lot of grieve ;)
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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