Soloing over A major to C major?

GuyBoden

TAB has been been one of the biggest problems, because TAB doesn't train your ears, it trains your eyes.

frankus

tabs not the problem - it's probably where the staves came from... it's squirrels, squirrels are the problem.

Global warming? Squirrels
Recession? Squirrels
Reduction of habitat of the Eurasian squirrel? Squirrels. Red squirrels are the overlords, the squirrel civil war is spiralling out of control.

I might be a conspiracy theorist but Squirrels shot JFK ... look on the grassy knoll what are there? trees.

Russel T Davis's success is entirely down a misunderstanding, if he hadn't said "I love nuts" he'd have been backed by a consortium of foxes thinking "he's a bit thick, all the good eating is on the hen" ...

but I digress. The whichness of where and the whyness of what is utterly redundant in music, unless you're making a documentary for TV land... but if you're making music as GuyBoden says "ears" make more use of them.

octatonic

frankus said:

tabs not the problem - it's probably where the staves came from... 

It is.

There are a lot of examples of early musical notation that show a certain crossover between stave notation and tab.

Have a look at Monteverdi's L'Orfeo here:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/Orfeo_libretto_prologue.jpg

There are earlier examples that are even better but that is the one that comes to mind.

octatonic

Here is another one:

http://d29ci68ykuu27r.cloudfront.net/product/Look-Inside/large/18458087_01.jpg

GuyBoden

I can't hear written music, can you?

octatonic

GuyBoden said:

I can't hear written music, can you?

Yes, I can.

I can't sing it however, at least not very well.

Tunez

Theory attracts people who for whatever reason aren't all that fussed about "hand" or "heart" ... and avoidant people (might be one and the same) are attracted to the internet... take me for instance, in life I'm a red setter but I come here to pretend to be something other than I am and avoid having a wet nose jammed in my hoop as a "how do ya do". Seriously I'm a dog with a big keyboard..

To my mind you're playing about with modulation, the sus backdoors it a bit... ultimately there are only 12 notes and 4 chords... loop it play each note over each chord, sort them into order. See if the sus makes that much difference...

I've grown to disregard theory as a means of approach because creating the whole thing from scratch is easier than remembering anything.

I've not seen that many people claiming to know the ritu-sen-poi, byzantine scale and hungarian gypsy be able to extemporise anything that didn't sound like painting by numbers... but worse was in denial about the noddy clockworkness of the music created.

I think guitarists must be the only skilled group of people with such a sizeable, vocal percentage within their number who pathologically embrace ignorance. Many of these even going to the lengths of despising any understanding of the mechanisms of their own art, then congratulating themselves on the near miss of learning something about music. It's their assertion, as here, that knowledge and understanding somehow demeans their expression. This attitude is unique to our number, no serious musicians of any other instrument ever make such preposterous assertions. Quite the contrary, they all embrace study with open arms in the hope that any new book, study, perspective or philosophy might offer them even a glimmer of a new and, as yet, unchartered territory.

I commend the OP for his question and all the people who offered some insights into the fruits of their studies to help him. 

If you needed evidence to convince you of the astronomical level of creativity and expression emerging from great, extremely well schooled musicians, simply turn your ears in any direction you like, any genre, any time through history. 

I will never assert that unschooled musicians are incapable of expression and I think it's ridiculous to assert that a schooled musician, by virtue of his study, has somehow castrated his mojo…

jus' sayin'.

Tunez

GuyBoden said:

TAB has been also been one of the biggest problems, because TAB doesn't train your ears, it trains your eyes.

Completely agree. Tab is a useless cul-de-sac, even, a barrier to more thorough understanding.

frankus

Tunez said:

Theory attracts people who for whatever reason aren't all that fussed about "hand" or "heart" ... and avoidant people (might be one and the same) are attracted to the internet... take me for instance, in life I'm a red setter but I come here to pretend to be something other than I am and avoid having a wet nose jammed in my hoop as a "how do ya do". Seriously I'm a dog with a big keyboard..

To my mind you're playing about with modulation, the sus backdoors it a bit... ultimately there are only 12 notes and 4 chords... loop it play each note over each chord, sort them into order. See if the sus makes that much difference...

I've grown to disregard theory as a means of approach because creating the whole thing from scratch is easier than remembering anything.

I've not seen that many people claiming to know the ritu-sen-poi, byzantine scale and hungarian gypsy be able to extemporise anything that didn't sound like painting by numbers... but worse was in denial about the noddy clockworkness of the music created.

I think guitarists must be the only skilled group of people with such a sizeable, vocal percentage within their number who pathologically embrace ignorance

You are confabulating - you interpret a world view different to yours as ignorance - what is it ignoring?

. Many of these even going to the lengths of despising any understanding of the mechanisms of their own art, then congratulating themselves on the near miss of learning something about music.

You're globalising deary - how many guitarists do you know to talk to?

It's their assertion, as here, that knowledge and understanding somehow demeans their expression.

Again this is your assertion - I am glad I've rattled your cage... maybe the doors open, now.

Knowledge is good, practical knowledge is better and application is king.

 This attitude is unique to our number, no serious musicians of any other instrument ever make such preposterous assertions.

Do you know many harmonica, folk violinists or pianists?

Some harmonica players don't know why they play an F harp when playing over tunes written in the key of C.

Folk Violinists are musically literate but defer to flyshit at all times.

Pianists aren't taught about chords, simply harmony.

Quite the contrary, they all embrace study with open arms in the hope that any new book, study, perspective or philosophy might offer them even a glimmer of a new and, as yet, unchartered territory.

Now you're using complex equivalence "A = B therefore C = D" on top of presupposition! Wow - you are pissed off... or delusional.

I commend the OP for his question and all the people who offered some insights into the fruits of their studies to help him.

And you tell us this why?

If you needed evidence to convince you of the astronomical level of creativity and expression emerging from great, extremely well schooled musicians, simply turn your ears in any direction you like, any genre, any time through history.

Music is not a product of education. Musical theory is a means of communication with other musicians, so give all this Cambridge Don bluster a rest, eh?

I will never assert that unschooled musicians are incapable of expression and I think it's ridiculous to assert that a schooled musician, by virtue of his study, has somehow castrated his mojo…

Noone said it does. It does, for a time... any acquired skill needs time to become internalised and if not honed in this way THROUGH EXPERIENCE is meaningless.

jus' sayin'.

not much

frankus

GuyBoden said:

I can't hear written music, can you?

If I hold it really close to my ear I can

GuyBoden

frankus said:

GuyBoden said:

I can't hear written music, can you?

If I hold it really close to my ear I can

Yes, it's happening for me too, I just needed to concentrate..................................
[-O<

Cirrus

GuyBoden;196215" said:

I can't hear written music, can you?

One of my lecturers at uni would read scores in bed and get as much enjoyment out of the performance he heard in his head as he would from listening to a recording. Absolutely amazing and so far beyond my comprehension I consider it a form of magic.

Tunez

--

frankus

Cirrus said:

One of my lecturers at uni would read scores in bed and get as much enjoyment out of the performance he heard in his head as he would from listening to a recording.

how do you know what one of your lecturers did in bed?

frankus

Tunez said:

Wow, I see why you are against study.

So you can see I'm against something I'm not against? Impressive.

That was sarcasm by the way.

Cirrus

frankus said:

Cirrus said:

One of my lecturers at uni would read scores in bed and get as much enjoyment out of the performance he heard in his head as he would from listening to a recording.

how do you know what one of your lecturers did in bed?

Because each night he spurned me was etched into my soul.

And he told the class he read scores in bed without seeming to understand that this wasn't a normal thing to do.

frankus

Do you reckon on Friday nights he'd read scores involving a lot of ostinato and flute solos... how do you show wah-wah using notation ... a lot of accent on the one... I mean porn soundtracks

Clarky

a few thoughts re soloing over the A and then to the C. Clearly both chords are in different keys and as such they each have their own sets of scale / mode possibilities. What would make me choose one set over another would be context.

if the vibe was bluesy / classic rock [and provided that there were no G# notes knocking around from other instruments / voclas], then I'd  probably consider the A to be an A7 [even if the 7th was not sounding. This would open up A mixolydian. The A mixo would in turn open up Am pentatonic as it' blue pentatonic'. The C# in the A chord vs the C in the pentatonic would of course clash.. however, you'd be mindful that when you play the C from the scale, give it a little bend towards the C#. The bend can even not quite get there [a micro-tone bend], but as it is heading in the direction of C# it'll be enough to de-emphasise the C / C# clash. Personally I'd most likely be playing licks that switch between A mixo, Am penta [blue], Amaj penta and Dmaj penta. The reason this works is cos you're mixing it up and not simply sticking to one tonality for the entire time the chord is sounding.

if this were a different more melodic context I'd me more inclined to be largely diatonic to the centre key [in this case A mixo]. Note though that Amixo and Cmaj share many notes. Knowing what these are can help with the transition.. for example.. when the A chord sounds, bend D to E a few beats before the transition to C. Leaving hanging there as the chord changes to C. The note E is also in the key of C so your bend will remain consonant through out the transition. Think of it as a pivot note [a note shared between the key of origin and the target key]. lil' tricks like this can make for some very nice transitions..

imalrightjack

This is what I've ended up playing:

http://m.soundcloud.com/nosoapnoradio/where-to-begin

Bellycaster

imalrightjack said:

This is what I've ended up playing:

http://m.soundcloud.com/nosoapnoradio/where-to-begin

I thought it was good, nice one.