USA Government - record borrowing for last 1/4

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guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4547
edited May 2 in Politics Economics
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/economy/2018/04/30/treasury-borrowing-set-record-488-billion/567166002/

that is on top of the 21 trillion currently outstanding and growing - other reports indicate that China has stopped buying USA Government bonds a while ago now - And to hide the lack of interest in other investors buying USA Government bonds the Fed Reserve has been buying them
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 6256
    I love it, the fed creates money to buy bonds so the government can pay interest to the fed, and the fed is a private bank. I wish I could get in on a scam like that.

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4547
    edited May 2
    VimFuego said:
    I love it, the fed creates money to buy bonds so the government can pay interest to the fed, and the fed is a private bank. I wish I could get in on a scam like that.
    exactly - illegal for you and I to print money - perfectly legal for the Fed to print/create money from thin air

    Partly the reason Nixon disbanded the ability to exchange dollars against gold - Partly the reason so many countries like Iran, Iraq and many others got fed up of selling oil for dollars that they did not need/want

    The day the dollar continues to be the worlds leading currency is not in doubt - It is just a case of  when - The BRICS nation want a bigger say with a new global reserve currency that is not owned/run by the Fed Reserve  - They have massive gold reserves as well  
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 32822
    Partly the reason Nixon disbanded the ability to exchange dollars against gold - Partly the reason so many countries like Iran, Iraq and many others got fed up of selling oil for dollars that they did not need/want
    ... Syria, Libya, Venezuela.

    And hence the reason this makes those countries' regimes anathema to the US - you might think that simply selling oil in a different currency is a fairly trivial thing, but it isn't...

    This is also going to cause trouble for them - on March 26th, China started trading oil futures in Yuan.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-25/china-s-oil-futures-are-finally-here-what-you-need-to-know
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • PC_DavePC_Dave Frets: 1402
    21 Trillion?!? I can't even comprehend a billion, let alone a trillion!!! When does it stop?
    This week's procrastination forum might be moved to sometime next week.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 32822
    edited May 2
    PC_Dave said:
    21 Trillion?!? I can't even comprehend a billion, let alone a trillion!!! When does it stop?
    When the Chinese seize America in lieu of payment on their foreign debts.

    Or maybe the US has a different idea. US defence spending is currently over 600 billion dollars per year. It wouldn't surprise me if the bulk of that debt has been run up by defence spending in the years since Reagan - 21 trillion is 35 times 600 billion.

    Perhaps they think that's enough of a deterrent to anyone thinking of enforcing repayment...
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 6256
    PC_Dave said:
    21 Trillion?!? I can't even comprehend a billion, let alone a trillion!!! When does it stop?
    when they can no longer afford the interest payments. Or they run out of countries to invade and resources they can steal.

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4547
    ICBM said:
    PC_Dave said:
    21 Trillion?!? I can't even comprehend a billion, let alone a trillion!!! When does it stop?
    When the Chinese seize America in lieu of payment on their foreign debts.

    Or maybe the US has a different idea. US defence spending is currently over 600 billion dollars per year. It wouldn't surprise me if the bulk of that debt has been run up by defence spending in the years since Reagan - 21 trillion is 35 times 600 billion.

    Perhaps they think that's enough of a deterrent to anyone thinking of enforcing repayment...
    'defending the USA' is a serious big business for the mighty industrial 'war machine' and those that finance it - It has been talked about by all leaders from Eisenhower on wards - Every bullet fired and every weapon made is great business for the industrial 'war machine'  - They made vast profits in both WW1 and WW11

    Huge corporations like Bechtel benefit from such policies, so in-conjunction with the CFR, CIA (a rogue agent by itself) and others, they ensure the USA overseas policies support there financial interests
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 32822
    guitars4you said:

    'defending the USA' is a serious big business for the mighty industrial 'war machine' and those that finance it - It has been talked about by all leaders from Eisenhower on wards - Every bullet fired and every weapon made is great business for the industrial 'war machine'  - They made vast profits in both WW1 and WW11
    Eisenhower in fact famously warned against giving too much power to the military-industrial complex in his departing address. Given his career before he went into politics, he knew exactly what he was talking about...
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4547
    ICBM said:
    guitars4you said:

    'defending the USA' is a serious big business for the mighty industrial 'war machine' and those that finance it - It has been talked about by all leaders from Eisenhower on wards - Every bullet fired and every weapon made is great business for the industrial 'war machine'  - They made vast profits in both WW1 and WW11
    Eisenhower in fact famously warned against giving too much power to the military-industrial complex in his departing address. Given his career before he went into politics, he knew exactly what he was talking about...
    agree and JFK wanted to take it to task inc the CIA - Since then every president has increased military spending

    U.S. military spending dwarfs the budget of the #2 country – China. For every dollar China spends on its military, the U.S. spends $2.77.

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 32822
    edited May 2
    Interesting to see how much Saudi Arabia spends - considerably more than Russia or India, which in proportion to their population and land area is remarkable. Anyone would think they had ambitions other than self-defence...

    No wonder we're so keen to sell them weapons.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11477
    $700 billion dollars. 

    https://www.apnews.com/c87ce743d4a8495f856507e593243775

    Bear in mind that 2015 saw the 28 EU Member States budget for 200 billion Euros. It's a staggering amount of money to spend. 
    Clarity over quantity.  
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 32822
    $700 billion dollars. 

    https://www.apnews.com/c87ce743d4a8495f856507e593243775

    Bear in mind that 2015 saw the 28 EU Member States budget for 200 billion Euros. It's a staggering amount of money to spend. 
    They spend around 50 billion on weapons and ammunition to kill *each other* as well... which is more than the entire UK defence budget and only slightly less than Russia's.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16962
    ICBM said:
    guitars4you said:

    'defending the USA' is a serious big business for the mighty industrial 'war machine' and those that finance it - It has been talked about by all leaders from Eisenhower on wards - Every bullet fired and every weapon made is great business for the industrial 'war machine'  - They made vast profits in both WW1 and WW11
    Eisenhower in fact famously warned against giving too much power to the military-industrial complex in his departing address. Given his career before he went into politics, he knew exactly what he was talking about...
    The problem is the US is now the world's largest exporter of arms by value. The US economy is dependant on the arms industry and they lobby the White House. If the rest of the world decided to disarm and be friends the US economy would collapse overnight as the overseas markets dry up. Just look at what the UK is buying from jets to spy planes and other tech. As a consequence of this the US needs wars and unstable world. Trump making peace with N Korea is probably freaking some people in the US out.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4547
    Fretwired said:
    ICBM said:
    guitars4you said:

    'defending the USA' is a serious big business for the mighty industrial 'war machine' and those that finance it - It has been talked about by all leaders from Eisenhower on wards - Every bullet fired and every weapon made is great business for the industrial 'war machine'  - They made vast profits in both WW1 and WW11
    Eisenhower in fact famously warned against giving too much power to the military-industrial complex in his departing address. Given his career before he went into politics, he knew exactly what he was talking about...
    The problem is the US is now the world's largest exporter of arms by value. The US economy is dependant on the arms industry and they lobby the White House. If the rest of the world decided to disarm and be friends the US economy would collapse overnight as the overseas markets dry up. Just look at what the UK is buying from jets to spy planes and other tech. As a consequence of this the US needs wars and unstable world. Trump making peace with N Korea is probably freaking some people in the US out.
    in bold  - exactly - and the CIA make sure it happens
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  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 1417
    ICBM said:
    Interesting to see how much Saudi Arabia spends - considerably more than Russia or India, which in proportion to their population and land area is remarkable. Anyone would think they had ambitions other than self-defence...

    No wonder we're so keen to sell them weapons.
    Well most of the kit they have bought from us is useless (eg the Tornado fighter), or stupidly expensive (the Eurofighter) so perhaps the rumours of BAE bunging the Saudi Royal family are true. 

    Of course we'll never know as the kibosh was put on the inquiry.

    And by guess who?

    Regardless, it would be hard to find a country with an active defense industry that hasn't sold arms to the Saudis. This list includes USA (obviously), Russia, China, France, Sweden, Germany, Austria, Belgium, Spain, Brazil, Italy, Switzerland.
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  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 1417
    Fretwired said:
    ICBM said:
    guitars4you said:

    'defending the USA' is a serious big business for the mighty industrial 'war machine' and those that finance it - It has been talked about by all leaders from Eisenhower on wards - Every bullet fired and every weapon made is great business for the industrial 'war machine'  - They made vast profits in both WW1 and WW11
    Eisenhower in fact famously warned against giving too much power to the military-industrial complex in his departing address. Given his career before he went into politics, he knew exactly what he was talking about...
    The problem is the US is now the world's largest exporter of arms by value. The US economy is dependant on the arms industry and they lobby the White House. If the rest of the world decided to disarm and be friends the US economy would collapse overnight as the overseas markets dry up. Just look at what the UK is buying from jets to spy planes and other tech. As a consequence of this the US needs wars and unstable world. Trump making peace with N Korea is probably freaking some people in the US out.
    The US government is the main customer for US weapons (as the above graphs show), so whilst the export market does seem a large amount of money, it's pretty insignificant in terms of the US economy.

    US government defense spending is 3.5% of GDP, so the US economy is hardly dependant on domestic defense spending let alone arms exports.

    That is of course not to say that the US defense industry doesn't have signifcant lobbying influence.
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16962
    jpfamps said:
    Fretwired said:
    ICBM said:
    guitars4you said:

    'defending the USA' is a serious big business for the mighty industrial 'war machine' and those that finance it - It has been talked about by all leaders from Eisenhower on wards - Every bullet fired and every weapon made is great business for the industrial 'war machine'  - They made vast profits in both WW1 and WW11
    Eisenhower in fact famously warned against giving too much power to the military-industrial complex in his departing address. Given his career before he went into politics, he knew exactly what he was talking about...
    The problem is the US is now the world's largest exporter of arms by value. The US economy is dependant on the arms industry and they lobby the White House. If the rest of the world decided to disarm and be friends the US economy would collapse overnight as the overseas markets dry up. Just look at what the UK is buying from jets to spy planes and other tech. As a consequence of this the US needs wars and unstable world. Trump making peace with N Korea is probably freaking some people in the US out.
    The US government is the main customer for US weapons (as the above graphs show), so whilst the export market does seem a large amount of money, it's pretty insignificant in terms of the US economy.

    US government defense spending is 3.5% of GDP, so the US economy is hardly dependant on domestic defense spending let alone arms exports.

    That is of course not to say that the US defense industry doesn't have signifcant lobbying influence.
    US spending is masked by the fact that defence projects are often supported by other nations - for example, I think there are five or six on the F35 project. And a 1 per cent on GDP would hit the US economy and jobless figures. Defence supports high tech jobs as well as jobs for the less educated in the infantry etc.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4547
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  not sure if the above defense figures (3.5% GDP) includes Homeland Security and all the other 'big brother is watching you'  divisions - all sold on the basis of 'anti terrorism' but again all part and parcel of 'defending the USA'  which is more business for the military industrial corporate complex
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  • HAL9000HAL9000 Frets: 3970
    edited May 24

    U.S. military spending dwarfs the budget of the #2 country – China. For every dollar China spends on its military, the U.S. spends $2.77.


    Depends what the graph really shows. I'm guessing a Chinese serviceman gets paid substantially less than a US one. I suspect a worker in the MiG factory doesn't get the same pay and benefits as someone building F18s. More spending doesn't automatically mean more military might and power.
    It might look like I'm listening to you, but in my head I'm playing my guitar.
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16962
    edited May 24
    HAL9000 said:

    U.S. military spending dwarfs the budget of the #2 country – China. For every dollar China spends on its military, the U.S. spends $2.77.


    Depends what the graph really shows. I'm guessing a Chinese serviceman gets paid substantially less than a US one. I suspect a worker in the MiG factory doesn't get the same pay and benefits as someone building F18s. More spending doesn't automatically mean more military might and power.
    The US economy depends on defence. If the rest of the world decided to scrap weapons and become peaceful and friendly the US economy would nose dive. Defence expenditure drives tech development and arms exports are significant - at the moment we are supposed to be buying 138 jets at a cost of £190 million each .. I think most will be cancelled but the US will retaliate to stop other countries cancelling their orders.

    A big chunk of the UK defence budget funds debt for useless procurements and overspending.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 1417
    Fretwired said:
    HAL9000 said:

    U.S. military spending dwarfs the budget of the #2 country – China. For every dollar China spends on its military, the U.S. spends $2.77.


    Depends what the graph really shows. I'm guessing a Chinese serviceman gets paid substantially less than a US one. I suspect a worker in the MiG factory doesn't get the same pay and benefits as someone building F18s. More spending doesn't automatically mean more military might and power.
    The US economy depends on defence. If the rest of the world decided to scrap weapons and become peaceful and friendly the US economy would nose dive. Defence expenditure drives tech development and arms exports are significant - at the moment we are supposed to be buying 138 jets at a cost of £190 million each .. I think most will be cancelled but the US will retaliate to stop other countries cancelling their orders.

    A big chunk of the UK defence budget funds debt for useless procurements and overspending.
    Sorry the numbers don't add up on that to that conclusion; the US ecomony does not dependon military spending.

    US military spending is 3.5% of GDP. 

    Looking at that graph, US domestic spending dwarfs other countries defences spending.

    Now, it's unlikely the China, or Russia (or indeed France) spend much on US kit, so even if the rest spent ALL their budget on US kit  (which they don't) it would have only a modest effect on the US economy.

    cf heathcare. This is now between 18 and 20% of US GDP; a much more economically significant industry.
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