Fear of Jeremy Corbyn-led government prompts tough EU line on Brexit

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From the Times - 07/05/2018

Fear of Jeremy Corbyn-led government prompts tough EU line on Brexit


Brussels vows to protect single market from Labour’s left‑wing policies


Britain faces restrictions on post-Brexit trade and draconian measures to enforce free-market policies because the European Union fears a future Jeremy Corbyn government.

Senior European officials have told The Times that concerns over Labour’s economic policies are the main reason for the EU’s insistence on a tough “level playing field mechanism” in a future deal after Britain leaves.

The revelation came as the dispute intensified in senior Tory ranks over the customs arrangement between Britain and the EU after Brexit. Jacob Rees-Mogg accused Greg Clark, the pro-EU business and energy secretary, of promoting “Project Fear” by saying that thousands of jobs were at risk if Britain did not minimise friction in trade. Mr Clark advocated the customs partnership preferred by Theresa May but which is fiercely opposed by Mr Rees-Mogg as well as Leavers in her cabinet.

EU negotiators are highlighting post-Brexit concerns about lower social and environment standards “because it is better public relations”, but European governments are more worried about the prospect of state subsidies and a return to public ownership in key services should Mr Corbyn become prime minister.

“The idea that Conservatives would legislate a race to the bottom is a myth and no one really believes it, even if some Tories have helped create it. The real fear is state subsidies under a Jeremy Corbyn government,” a senior Brussels source involved in Brexit negotiations said. “British policy has remained unchanged for generations but now there is a real chance of a left-wing government reversing it. We have to protect ourselves and the single market.”

The EU fears Britain could steal a competitive advantage by subsidising manufacturing industries and that a shift to public ownership could damage European companies involved in privatised public services or utilities such as energy. Included in the EU’s armoury will be a “non-regression clause” that, in effect, fixes Margaret Thatcher’s privatisation and free market policies into a withdrawal treaty.

The prospect of a Corbyn-led government has led the EU to demand a mechanism that would hit Britain with trade tariffs, compensation demands and, in the event of fiscal policy to subsidise industry, measures to restrict British air traffic, grounding flights.

“If a Corbyn government implements his declared policies the level playing field mechanism will lead to increased costs for Britain to access the single market because of distortions caused by state aid. That is why this is where the real battle is,” the source said.

EU governments were alarmed in February when Mr Corbyn said Labour would seek “protections, clarifications or exemptions” from single-market “state aid” and ownership liberalisation directives. “We cannot be held back . . . from taking the steps we need to support cutting-edge industries and local business, stop the tide of privatisation and outsourcing,” he said.

The plan for enforcement powers, which would risk causing a trade war between the EU and Britain, indicates the fear that European states have of a future left-wing government.

Exports from Britain to the EU could be hit by tariffs. Queues could form at ports for EU customs checks, and the City could be blocked from Europe’s markets. The “nuclear option” could lead to British aircraft being grounded through the EU’s “single sky” rules.

The EU’s treaty prohibits state aid for industry, defining it as “an advantage in any form whatsoever conferred on a selective basis to undertakings by national public authorities”.

A poll by IPPR/Opinium in March indicated that 53 per cent of the public supported ditching EU free market rules, even at the expense of a far-reaching trade deal after Brexit.

However, Labour’s softer stance towards Brexit has been welcomed by many in the EU. The party wants Britain to be in a customs union and remain “close to the single market”, though not in it. Labour peers are trying to persuade the party to seek to remain in the European Economic Area. They say that staying in the internal market would solve the Irish border problem.

The Labour peer Lord Alli is among signatories to an amendment to the EU withdrawal bill setting out the position. He accused the party of cowardice yesterday after it emerged that Labour peers would be whipped to abstain from the vote in the Lords tomorrow.

Barry Gardiner, the shadow international trade secretary, said that such an arrangement would leave Britain a “rule taker” without any influence in shaping the rules. John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, said the party backed a “traditional British compromise”.

Chuka Umunna, a pro-EU Labour MP, said: “Labour MPs were whipped to vote in the Commons for it [to keep the UK in the EEA] and yet now, when there are enough Tory rebels, we abstain — this is ridiculous.”
My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 8802
    Chuka Umunna's head is so far up the European arse that it's difficult to take anything he says seriously. I confess to being a little surprised by the headline, although the text does make some kind of sense. I always thought that Britain had spent so long sending it's more awkward leftist politicians to be MEPs, that the EU was beginning to sound a bit leftist anyway, and didn't I hear recently the Labour party (nay, Mr Jeremy of Corbyn himself) saying that workers' rights had been "won" by the EU and so it wasn't a completely good idea to get out ... so to hear the EU saying its 'feared' a leftist government in an exited Britain struck me as a tadge incongruous. However I get the point about "state-aid" for our industries getting up their noses ... except that I just wonder if the French in particular aren't "state-aiding" their industries, they're just not doing it in a way that makes it obvious.

    Do as we say, not as we do.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11052


    Laugh-a-minute at this quote:


    “The idea that Conservatives would legislate a race to the bottom is a myth and no one really believes it, even if some Tories have helped create it. The real fear is state subsidies under a Jeremy Corbyn government,” a senior Brussels source involved in Brexit negotiations said. “British policy has remained unchanged for generations but now there is a real chance of a left-wing government reversing it. We have to protect ourselves and the single market.”

    The EU loves leftism as long as it's the right type of leftism. It's the side of the EU that had me seriously considering voting Leave, namely that the current EU regime are bred from the same ideological puddle that gave us New Labour. And so we now have Project Corb-Fear! Quick, roll out the Armageddon scenarios talking about a Corbyn win!

    The shame is that here you have the Times detailing how the EU would apparently punish us for a democratic decision made in our own country. Instead of whining about the ruthless unelected EU juggernaut as they have done for years, the Times is prepared to put this away in the back of their mind, as the opportunity to tarnish Corbyn trumps the chance to diss the EU. 

    I do find it curious how the Cambridge Analytica revelations have been dismissed by some sources on the right despite people prepared to go public on it and use their name yet we have an entire article in a right wing newspaper based around one anonymous source...
    I make Jeremy Paxman look like Fingermouse. 
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  • ChalkyChalky Frets: 5349
    Gotta love this paragraph of idiocy:

    "Exports from Britain to the EU could be hit by tariffs. Queues could form at ports for EU customs checks, and the City could be blocked from Europe’s markets. The “nuclear option” could lead to British aircraft being grounded through the EU’s “single sky” rules."

    Ya think EU tariffs would go unchallenged and the UK wouldn't respond with tariffs on German cars and French foods?

    Ya think cutting off the EU businesses from the City's money markets will have no effect on the EU?

    Ya think the UK wouldn't restrict airspace access in response to the meaningless EU attempt to ground UK air operations?

    Clearly this Brussels source is a clown.
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 8802
    @Heartfeltdawn I think you put it a lot better than I did: "The EU loves leftism as long as it's the right type of leftism."
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11052
    Chalky said:
    Gotta love this paragraph of idiocy:

    "Exports from Britain to the EU could be hit by tariffs. Queues could form at ports for EU customs checks, and the City could be blocked from Europe’s markets. The “nuclear option” could lead to British aircraft being grounded through the EU’s “single sky” rules."

    Ya think EU tariffs would go unchallenged and the UK wouldn't respond with tariffs on German cars and French foods?

    Ya think cutting off the EU businesses from the City's money markets will have no effect on the EU?

    Ya think the UK wouldn't restrict airspace access in response to the meaningless EU attempt to ground UK air operations?

    Clearly this Brussels source is a clown.

    That's the bit that made me think of Project Fear. 

    I make Jeremy Paxman look like Fingermouse. 
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  • FreebirdFreebird Frets: 784
    edited May 8
    I think calls for a second referendum may be imminent.
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16299
    edited May 9
    Freebird said:
    I think calls for a second referendum may be imminent.
    Bring it on. The vote to leave will be larger. Nationalising the railways and utilities is a popular policy. The EU's stance will backfire. UK customers are fed up subsiding French and German customers.

    Corbyn is on the money with this .. the French and Germans are ripping us off.

    https://capx.co/europes-stealth-invasion-of-british-industry/

    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11052
    Fretwired said:
    Freebird said:
    I think calls for a second referendum may be imminent.
    Bring it on. The vote to leave will be larger. Nationalising the railways and utilities is a popular policy. The EU's stance will backfire. UK customers are fed up subsiding French and German customers.

    Corbyn is on the money with this .. the French and Germans are ripping us off.

    https://capx.co/europes-stealth-invasion-of-british-industry/

    And nowt will change until large numbers of the electorate stop blaming other countries for coming in here and taking the family silver and start blaming those British folk who put the family silver up for sale. 
    I make Jeremy Paxman look like Fingermouse. 
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16299
    edited May 9
    Fretwired said:
    Freebird said:
    I think calls for a second referendum may be imminent.
    Bring it on. The vote to leave will be larger. Nationalising the railways and utilities is a popular policy. The EU's stance will backfire. UK customers are fed up subsiding French and German customers.

    Corbyn is on the money with this .. the French and Germans are ripping us off.

    https://capx.co/europes-stealth-invasion-of-british-industry/

    And nowt will change until large numbers of the electorate stop blaming other countries for coming in here and taking the family silver and start blaming those British folk who put the family silver up for sale. 
    I think we get that .. Corbyn's plan for the railways would see billions of pounds flowing in the Treasury.

    The East Coast Line franchise was returned to the government which earned £1 billion over the five years a government owned company ran it, including £235 million in the last year. The Tories then pushed through a privatisation bill and sold it. Bad decision ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/04/east-coast-mainline-fury-reprivatisation-plan

    And then check this out .. Virgin breaches its contract but the government may be happy to renegotiate ... why?

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/05/east-coast-could-return-to-public-sector-chris-grayling-admits


    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11052
    Fretwired said:
    I think we get that .. Corbyn's plan for the railways would see billions of pounds flowing in the Treasury.

    The East Coast Line franchise was returned to the government which earned £1 billion over the five years a government owned company ran it, including £235 million in the last year. The Tories then pushed through a privatisation bill and sold it. Bad decision ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/04/east-coast-mainline-fury-reprivatisation-plan

    And then check this out .. Virgin breaches its contract but the government may be happy to renegotiate ... why?

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/05/east-coast-could-return-to-public-sector-chris-grayling-admits


    Because ideology is put before sense. When we have so much successful state ownership of railways elsewhere in Europe and we have our own case study into the pros and (enormous) cons of private ownership in the form of the East Coast Mainline, it is utterly ridiculous for this government to continue to go on with the franchise system. 

    People talk about Dianne Abbott being useless. Chris Grayling must be close to her level. 
    I make Jeremy Paxman look like Fingermouse. 
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  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 1368
    Fretwired said:
    I think we get that .. Corbyn's plan for the railways would see billions of pounds flowing in the Treasury.

    The East Coast Line franchise was returned to the government which earned £1 billion over the five years a government owned company ran it, including £235 million in the last year. The Tories then pushed through a privatisation bill and sold it. Bad decision ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/04/east-coast-mainline-fury-reprivatisation-plan

    And then check this out .. Virgin breaches its contract but the government may be happy to renegotiate ... why?

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/05/east-coast-could-return-to-public-sector-chris-grayling-admits


    Because ideology is put before sense. When we have so much successful state ownership of railways elsewhere in Europe and we have our own case study into the pros and (enormous) cons of private ownership in the form of the East Coast Mainline, it is utterly ridiculous for this government to continue to go on with the franchise system. 

    People talk about Dianne Abbott being useless. Chris Grayling must be close to her level. 
    The frachise system was designed by the Treasury to maximize return to the Treasury based on an "airline" model, ie several operators using common infrastructure; it certainly wasn't designed to aid the efficient running of a railway system.

    One major problem has been the separation of track maintenance and running trains.

    Idiotically, even though this model was failing badly, the government du jour (with GB as chancellor) used exactly the same model for part privatisation of the London Underground. This experiment has now been terminated.

    Both sides of the argument suffer from idealogical tunnel vision in my view; and whilst I think it's better that the railways should be run by some form of co-ordinated not for profit entity (probably a la Network Rail), it's likley that those proposing Nationalisation are right for the wrong reasons (which I would have to say is far better than being wrong for the right reason). 
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11052
    jpfamps said:
    The frachise system was designed by the Treasury to maximize return to the Treasury based on an "airline" model, ie several operators using common infrastructure; it certainly wasn't designed to aid the efficient running of a railway system.

    One major problem has been the separation of track maintenance and running trains.

    Idiotically, even though this model was failing badly, the government du jour (with GB as chancellor) used exactly the same model for part privatisation of the London Underground. This experiment has now been terminated.

    Both sides of the argument suffer from idealogical tunnel vision in my view; and whilst I think it's better that the railways should be run by some form of co-ordinated not for profit entity (probably a la Network Rail), it's likley that those proposing Nationalisation are right for the wrong reasons (which I would have to say is far better than being wrong for the right reason). 

    Nationalisation for the sake of nationalisation isn't the way to go. I'm no train expert but the German model seems to offer the best of both worlds. 

    And at least we aren't as bad as some of the buses in Rome right now...

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-italy-bus/two-buses-catch-fire-in-black-day-for-rome-transport-system-idUSKBN1I9134


    I make Jeremy Paxman look like Fingermouse. 
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  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 1368
    jpfamps said:
    The frachise system was designed by the Treasury to maximize return to the Treasury based on an "airline" model, ie several operators using common infrastructure; it certainly wasn't designed to aid the efficient running of a railway system.

    One major problem has been the separation of track maintenance and running trains.

    Idiotically, even though this model was failing badly, the government du jour (with GB as chancellor) used exactly the same model for part privatisation of the London Underground. This experiment has now been terminated.

    Both sides of the argument suffer from idealogical tunnel vision in my view; and whilst I think it's better that the railways should be run by some form of co-ordinated not for profit entity (probably a la Network Rail), it's likley that those proposing Nationalisation are right for the wrong reasons (which I would have to say is far better than being wrong for the right reason). 

    Nationalisation for the sake of nationalisation isn't the way to go. I'm no train expert but the German model seems to offer the best of both worlds. 

    And at least we aren't as bad as some of the buses in Rome right now...

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-italy-bus/two-buses-catch-fire-in-black-day-for-rome-transport-system-idUSKBN1I9134


    A few of the Boris buses caught fire, although think the problem has been sorted.
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11052
    jpfamps said:
    A few of the Boris buses caught fire, although think the problem has been sorted.
    Not quite the same rate of attrition as the Roman ones though, thank goodness. 
    I make Jeremy Paxman look like Fingermouse. 
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  • exocetexocet Frets: 536
    jpfamps said:
    jpfamps said:
    The frachise system was designed by the Treasury to maximize return to the Treasury based on an "airline" model, ie several operators using common infrastructure; it certainly wasn't designed to aid the efficient running of a railway system.

    One major problem has been the separation of track maintenance and running trains.

    Idiotically, even though this model was failing badly, the government du jour (with GB as chancellor) used exactly the same model for part privatisation of the London Underground. This experiment has now been terminated.

    Both sides of the argument suffer from idealogical tunnel vision in my view; and whilst I think it's better that the railways should be run by some form of co-ordinated not for profit entity (probably a la Network Rail), it's likley that those proposing Nationalisation are right for the wrong reasons (which I would have to say is far better than being wrong for the right reason). 

    Nationalisation for the sake of nationalisation isn't the way to go. I'm no train expert but the German model seems to offer the best of both worlds. 

    And at least we aren't as bad as some of the buses in Rome right now...

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-italy-bus/two-buses-catch-fire-in-black-day-for-rome-transport-system-idUSKBN1I9134


    A few of the Boris buses caught fire, although think the problem has been sorted.
    I was under the impression that this problem was "sorted" by getting rid of that type of bus I.e the "bendy bus". The 501 from London Bridge is now a standard non-articulated type. 
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  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 1368
    exocet said:
    jpfamps said:
    jpfamps said:
    The frachise system was designed by the Treasury to maximize return to the Treasury based on an "airline" model, ie several operators using common infrastructure; it certainly wasn't designed to aid the efficient running of a railway system.

    One major problem has been the separation of track maintenance and running trains.

    Idiotically, even though this model was failing badly, the government du jour (with GB as chancellor) used exactly the same model for part privatisation of the London Underground. This experiment has now been terminated.

    Both sides of the argument suffer from idealogical tunnel vision in my view; and whilst I think it's better that the railways should be run by some form of co-ordinated not for profit entity (probably a la Network Rail), it's likley that those proposing Nationalisation are right for the wrong reasons (which I would have to say is far better than being wrong for the right reason). 

    Nationalisation for the sake of nationalisation isn't the way to go. I'm no train expert but the German model seems to offer the best of both worlds. 

    And at least we aren't as bad as some of the buses in Rome right now...

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-italy-bus/two-buses-catch-fire-in-black-day-for-rome-transport-system-idUSKBN1I9134


    A few of the Boris buses caught fire, although think the problem has been sorted.
    I was under the impression that this problem was "sorted" by getting rid of that type of bus I.e the "bendy bus". The 501 from London Bridge is now a standard non-articulated type. 
    exocet said:
    jpfamps said:
    jpfamps said:
    The frachise system was designed by the Treasury to maximize return to the Treasury based on an "airline" model, ie several operators using common infrastructure; it certainly wasn't designed to aid the efficient running of a railway system.

    One major problem has been the separation of track maintenance and running trains.

    Idiotically, even though this model was failing badly, the government du jour (with GB as chancellor) used exactly the same model for part privatisation of the London Underground. This experiment has now been terminated.

    Both sides of the argument suffer from idealogical tunnel vision in my view; and whilst I think it's better that the railways should be run by some form of co-ordinated not for profit entity (probably a la Network Rail), it's likley that those proposing Nationalisation are right for the wrong reasons (which I would have to say is far better than being wrong for the right reason). 

    Nationalisation for the sake of nationalisation isn't the way to go. I'm no train expert but the German model seems to offer the best of both worlds. 

    And at least we aren't as bad as some of the buses in Rome right now...

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-italy-bus/two-buses-catch-fire-in-black-day-for-rome-transport-system-idUSKBN1I9134


    A few of the Boris buses caught fire, although think the problem has been sorted.
    I was under the impression that this problem was "sorted" by getting rid of that type of bus I.e the "bendy bus". The 501 from London Bridge is now a standard non-articulated type. 

    There were fire problems with the bendy buses, but this was sorted out.

    The problems with the bendy buses were that they caused traffic congestion, an increase in crime (they were very easy for gangs to "steam") and massive fare evasion.

    The "Boris" busses are hybrids, and have had problems with the batteries catching fire.
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  • Jock68Jock68 Frets: 149
    Freebird said:
    I think calls for a second referendum may be imminent.
    We had that Vote at the Last General Election, now if Labour want this vote and future votes to be based on Best out of 5 then that will be unpopular.  
    Jock
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11052
    Jock68 said:
    Freebird said:
    I think calls for a second referendum may be imminent.
    We had that Vote at the Last General Election, now if Labour want this vote and future votes to be based on Best out of 5 then that will be unpopular.  

    1. Can you please point out where it said 'no second referendum' on the 2017 ballot paper? Cheers. 

    2. Imagine if it's not a second referendum in the manner of the first and the general public get to vote on actual specifics instead of Yes and No. I don't think that would be unpopular. 
    I make Jeremy Paxman look like Fingermouse. 
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16299
    Jock68 said:
    Freebird said:
    I think calls for a second referendum may be imminent.
    We had that Vote at the Last General Election, now if Labour want this vote and future votes to be based on Best out of 5 then that will be unpopular.  

    1. Can you please point out where it said 'no second referendum' on the 2017 ballot paper? Cheers. 

    2. Imagine if it's not a second referendum in the manner of the first and the general public get to vote on actual specifics instead of Yes and No. I don't think that would be unpopular. 
    We're not leaving the EU. Look's like May has won ... Boris is finished.

    As you were.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 6185
    "Look's like May has won ... Boris is finished."

    now there's a mental image that's not gonna go easily. 

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11052
    edited May 10
    So Brexit doesn't happen. What next? 

    All UK flights are grounded for over two months after the Brexit cancellation announcement is made. This is due to Paul Dacre exploding and releasing a previously never seen ability to create a toxic shit cloud so dense that seagulls are rendered instantly unconscious upon contact with it. The explosion is accompanied by the headline "Members of Parliament - traitors to democratic freedom". He personally takes it upon himself to assassinate Anna Soubry, whose death is covered in the next day's Mail with the headline "Corbyn has breakfast with communists". Mail Online cover the horrific events by focusing on the over-inflated silicone tits of some Northern bird. 

     -The Tory Leavers explode in rage and Theresa May is lost in battle after being cannibalised by Phillip Davies. Her death triggers both a leadership contest and a snap General Election. The blue Remainers jump ship before they are executed by firing squad in front of the 1922 Committee, leaving the party in the hands of Jacob Rees-Mogg, who immediately announces that he will rule the Conservatives with a motto of "firma stabilitate ductu". The Tories move so far right that they are found two weeks later floating toward Calais. They score 19.9% of the popular vote yet some party members are surprised to not have amajority Government on the basis that FPTP was supposed to stop this happening.  

    Labour lose a over third of their support as some Leavers depart for UKIP. The Remainers, fearful of being incarcerated in an Islington pogrom, finally bail out of the party using Harriet Harman's pink bus as their escape vehicle. In their place Corbyn brings in a raft of new parliamentary candidates. All have foreskins, especially the women. They score 18.8% of the vote, a figure Corbyn heralds as a 'stunning show of belief in our policies and reinforces the view that Zionists are stinky". He then petitions for a statue of Diane Abbott to be mounted in a plinth in Trafalgar Square. Costs are projected to be somewhere between 17 pence and the GDP of Saudi Arabia.   

    The Liberal Democrats explode into life as Remainers from all sides of the spectrum come together to stand for what they believe in. Injuries occur at the first party meeting due to the unexpectedly large number of attendees: clearly somewhere bigger than Vince Cable's greenhouse will be necessary in the future. The PPC list was running bare beforehand but now it bulges, swollen with fresh talent and experienced heads. Someone even manages to arrange for Lembit Opik to come back just for comedy value. They score a whopping 45% of the vote and end up with a small majority. 

    UKIP are bolstered by the swell of returning fruitcakes and finally get a homegrown non-defector MP in Parliament. Nigel Farage is pictured weeping tears of happiness that do nothing to mask over the tears of envy that it isn't him. Their MP lasts six weeks in office before being forced to resign for some load of old bullshit that sounds like your granddad down the social club after four pints of Ruddles. 

    The leading party in the region collapse in Scotland, beaten down by a surging Lib Dem vote and Ruth Davidson's promise to bare knuckle fight Sturgeon if the Tories get more seats than the SNP. This target duly gained, Davidson and Sturgeon are laid on as the half time entertainment in the first post-election Old Firm derby match, a bout so popular that everyone gives up on football and dwarf-lesbian pugilism becomes the national sport. 

    The Green Party take 1.6% of the popular vote. As if anybody gave a fuck. 




    I make Jeremy Paxman look like Fingermouse. 
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16299
    edited May 10
    Theresa May has been called “weak” by Germany’s EU commissioner, who also mocked Boris Johnson for having a haircut similar to Donald Trump.

    “Madame May is weak and Boris Johnson has the same hairdo as Trump. That says everything,” said Günther Oettinger, 64, a senior member of Angela Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union party. “We can only hope that sensible citizens will put Madame May on the path to a clever Brexit.” Code for remaining.

    The mess is 100 per cent Tory made in Britain.

    And when you get a leading editorial by Phillip Collins in the Times saying 'May not only can but should sack Johnson. The foreign secretary’s mix of insubordination, grandstanding and serial incompetence make him entirely disposable' you know the Brexiteers game is up. Even the Torygraph is critical.

    History could record that remainer May played a blinder. Called an election which she screwed up (deliberately?) Wafts along with her head in the clouds and then announces at the 11th hour we need to stay in a form of Customs Union for 10 years which I pretty much think will end up with Article 50 being withdrawn and the UK remaining. And she can thank the Irish ...

    The UK position is now weak. The EU only has to stick to its guns and they've won. Pathetic really.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 6185
    and now I have the image of Diane Abbot being mounted on a plinth. Thanks to you fuckers I ain't getting a wink of sleep tonight

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11052
    Fretwired said:


    And when you get a leading editorial by Phillip Collins in the Times saying 'May not only can but should sack Johnson. The foreign secretary’s mix of insubordination, grandstanding and serial incompetence make him entirely disposable' you know the Brexiteers game is up. Even the Torygraph is critical.

    History could record that remainer May played a blinder. Called an election which she screwed up (deliberately?) Wafts along with her head in the clouds and then announces at the 11th hour we need to stay in a form of Customs Union for 10 years which I pretty much think will end up with Article 50 being withdrawn and the UK remaining. And she can thank the Irish ...

    The UK position is now weak. The EU only has to stick to its guns and they've won. Pathetic really.
    Collins has previous with Boris. He's not been in the fanclub for quite some time. 

    If we don't Leave next year, then surely we've got to have the GE before then? I can't see how a Conservative party would be able to win a GE after announcing that we ain't leaving. Voters treated the Lib Dems with contempt after the tuition fee climbdown: they'd surely do the same over a failure to leave the EU under a Conservative government. 



    I make Jeremy Paxman look like Fingermouse. 
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16299
    Fretwired said:


    And when you get a leading editorial by Phillip Collins in the Times saying 'May not only can but should sack Johnson. The foreign secretary’s mix of insubordination, grandstanding and serial incompetence make him entirely disposable' you know the Brexiteers game is up. Even the Torygraph is critical.

    History could record that remainer May played a blinder. Called an election which she screwed up (deliberately?) Wafts along with her head in the clouds and then announces at the 11th hour we need to stay in a form of Customs Union for 10 years which I pretty much think will end up with Article 50 being withdrawn and the UK remaining. And she can thank the Irish ...

    The UK position is now weak. The EU only has to stick to its guns and they've won. Pathetic really.
    Collins has previous with Boris. He's not been in the fanclub for quite some time. 

    If we don't Leave next year, then surely we've got to have the GE before then? I can't see how a Conservative party would be able to win a GE after announcing that we ain't leaving. Voters treated the Lib Dems with contempt after the tuition fee climbdown: they'd surely do the same over a failure to leave the EU under a Conservative government. 



    But who would people vote for? Older Tories may hate May and the EU but are they really going to vote for Corbyn? I don't think so .. May could stay on as leader and garner the remain vote which coupled with the older voter scared of Corbyn and a dose of socialism could be enough for the Tories to win. Labour is the party in trouble. Corbyn wants to leave the EU as do many of their core voters - does he do a U-turn?
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • siremoonsiremoon Frets: 548
    edited May 11
    Fretwired said:
    Fretwired said:
    Freebird said:
    I think calls for a second referendum may be imminent.
    Bring it on. The vote to leave will be larger. Nationalising the railways and utilities is a popular policy. The EU's stance will backfire. UK customers are fed up subsiding French and German customers.

    Corbyn is on the money with this .. the French and Germans are ripping us off.

    https://capx.co/europes-stealth-invasion-of-british-industry/

    And nowt will change until large numbers of the electorate stop blaming other countries for coming in here and taking the family silver and start blaming those British folk who put the family silver up for sale. 
    I think we get that .. Corbyn's plan for the railways would see billions of pounds flowing in the Treasury.

    The East Coast Line franchise was returned to the government which earned £1 billion over the five years a government owned company ran it, including £235 million in the last year. The Tories then pushed through a privatisation bill and sold it. Bad decision ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/04/east-coast-mainline-fury-reprivatisation-plan

    And then check this out .. Virgin breaches its contract but the government may be happy to renegotiate ... why?

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/05/east-coast-could-return-to-public-sector-chris-grayling-admits


    This is a classic example of if the press says something often enough then everyone believes it to be true.

    DOR enhanced its profits on the ECML by deferring expensive overhauls on the Class 91 electric locomotives.  If DOR had continued then its performance would have eventually gone through the floor as failures and unreliability started to hit.  That is now happening. 

    The DfT is happy to accommodate an arrangement with VTEC because it is desperate to avoid a legal challenge and public exposure of how it has handled the ECML.  The DfT is arguably the most incompetent department in Government and has demonstrated that wrt the ECML as follows:

    a.  Due to locomotives out of service undergoing the overhauls which DOR should have done, and failures in traffic, on most days VTEC only has 20-22 locomotives instead of the required 26 to run the service.  This has meant hiring in extra electric locomotives and extra HSTs sets from elsewhere. The DfT sanctioned DOR deferring the overhauls to make the franchise look more attractive than it actually was.  There were thus hidden costs in dealing with the fallout from that which the bidders knew nothing about.

    b.  VTEC admit they were were overly optimistic with their revenue projections but to date they have paid all the premiums demanded by the contract even though they have incurred losses.  They were not in breach of their contract as many reports would have you believe. 

    c.  The revenue figures given to all bidders by the DfT were way out of date so all bidders were bidding against an invalid prospectus.

    d.  Future ECML revenue was predicated on service improvements based on two major project deliveries - the IET bi-mode trains procured by the DfT and Network Rail upgrades.  NR is now state owned and managed by the DfT.

    The IET performance on diesel power has proved to be a huge embarrassment for the DfT (as predicted by those who understand the laws of physics - which the DfT don't seem to).  So much so that it is incapable of getting anywhere near the 40 year old HST performance on the routes from Edinburgh-Aberdeen/Inverness.  Its test runs to Inverness over the hills north of Perth were so bad that NR have said it can't run because it will destroy the timetable.  It is now a distinct possibility that HSTs will have to rebuilt and retained for KX-Aberdeen/Inverness.  More unforeseen cost.

    NR has failed to deliver most of the critical upgrades which are contractually binding on the DfT.  Those that have been delivered have run hugely over budget and have reduced scope.  Two of those upgrades (Werrington Jn flyover and Newcastle-Edinburgh power supply enhancement) haven't even started and are critical to the enhanced service on which the franchise tender was based.  If either are actually completed they will be at least 2 years later than the DfT specified to the franchise bidders.
      
    e.  NR has failed to maintain the overhead line equipment on the ECML properly and it has the highest infrastructure failure rate of any electrified route in the country.  

    The DfT made a complete pigs breakfast of the WCML franchise award a few years ago and was forced to settle out of court with Virgin to avoid its incompetence being exposed in court.  It, together with NR, have made a similar mess of the ECML so doing a deal with VTEC to keep quiet is one politically expedient option.

    Three ECML franchises have now failed.  Were all three organisations totally incompetent or were they sold a pup?  DOR appeared to succeed but this was largely DfT orchestrated smoke and mirrors to fatten it up for re-franchising.  The ECML may have to return to public ownership because it is entirely possible that no-one else will touch it with a barge pole.  It is a fact that the DfT is having a great deal of trouble finding bidders for future renewals despite them all being "lucrative" [(c) all UK media outlets].  It is also a fact that very few franchises are making any money and many are on life support despite them all being "lucrative" [(c) all UK media outlets]

    “He is like a man with a fork in a world of soup.” - Noel Gallagher
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 31628
    Corbyn now wants to guarantee that Royal Navy contracts are awarded to UK shipyards. Quite where, given that apparently the ones we still do have are at capacity with the current warship orders, I don't know - but it will be popular, and in my opinion it's about time someone said so. The constant giving of public contracts to overseas bidders because it appears to be 'cheaper' - in terms of the headline price - when the reality is that it always costs the country more overall, needs to be challenged.

    Other European countries are much less likely to do so - although they're happy to take on ours...
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11052
    Fretwired said:
    But who would people vote for? Older Tories may hate May and the EU but are they really going to vote for Corbyn? I don't think so .. May could stay on as leader and garner the remain vote which coupled with the older voter scared of Corbyn and a dose of socialism could be enough for the Tories to win. Labour is the party in trouble. Corbyn wants to leave the EU as do many of their core voters - does he do a U-turn?

    There are so many variables so it's a case of looking at dates and wondering when people will stick or twist. Now Friday March 29th 2019 is the first firm date. That date is creeping up awfully fast and currently we read reports of two Brexit bills being delayed until the autumn because she doesn't have enough support for the plan and that the rebel Pro-EU Tories could scupper it. 

    A defeat on those bills would be catastrophic for May. It would make her look even weaker as a leader, embolden the Remain Tories, the Labour camps would attempt to put aside differences and hit her when she was down, and the Leave Tories would surely strike at her in terms of a change of leadership. Boris has shot his bolt in my book: his repeated call for an illegal immigrant amnesty did not go down well with anyone. If May goes because of a defeat in the Commons, then it has to be a firm Brexiteer for the top job, and that means JRM. Ironically now would actually be a great time for May to call a snap election with a firm "back me or sack me" platform but she's already played that card. Once was foolish: twice makes you look like a prize pillock...

    Now if May stays in and delivers a watered down Brexit and then calls a GE, then I believe some Conservative voters would migrate to UKIP again. We've seen a fair degree of fluidity of voting movement between these two groups. I think it would come down to how strong certain groups felt over issues, whether loyalty to the party was stronger than their desire to kick the EU in the arse. Would Leave Tory voters pissed at a watered-down Brexit back the party and May or would they go for the protest vote and go purple? 

    With Labour Leavers, I'm pretty sure that party loyalty would trump EU feelings to the point where I believe they'd accept staying in the EU if it meant kicking the Tories out. The Labour Remainers would also find it easier to highlight Corbyn's failings if he were PM compared to Opposition Leader. 

    I'm certainly not claiming a full Lib Dem-style exodus in all these situations, particularly with regard to the Conservatives and a neutered Brexit, but even a small shift of 5% would have a big impact. In terms of the popular vote since 2010,  Cameron in 2010 could only get 7.1% more than a Brown-led Labour outfit scarred by Blairism, Iraq, and financial incompetence. 2015 saw the gap narrow to 6.4%. In 2017 it was down to 2.4%. 

    So really we have to wait as it looks like it's going to be a far calmer summer than this time last year. Roll on the autmn Bills...
    I make Jeremy Paxman look like Fingermouse. 
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16299
    UKIP are broke .. they won't be able to field candidates.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 1368
    ICBM said:
    Corbyn now wants to guarantee that Royal Navy contracts are awarded to UK shipyards. Quite where, given that apparently the ones we still do have are at capacity with the current warship orders, I don't know - but it will be popular, and in my opinion it's about time someone said so. The constant giving of public contracts to overseas bidders because it appears to be 'cheaper' - in terms of the headline price - when the reality is that it always costs the country more overall, needs to be challenged.

    Other European countries are much less likely to do so - although they're happy to take on ours...
    It's not just orders, but also repairs.

    There isn't enough space to fix the (proedominantly UK-built) type 45 destroyers as it is.
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