Fear of Jeremy Corbyn-led government prompts tough EU line on Brexit

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  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 1417
    ICBM said:
    Corbyn now wants to guarantee that Royal Navy contracts are awarded to UK shipyards. Quite where, given that apparently the ones we still do have are at capacity with the current warship orders, I don't know - but it will be popular, and in my opinion it's about time someone said so. The constant giving of public contracts to overseas bidders because it appears to be 'cheaper' - in terms of the headline price - when the reality is that it always costs the country more overall, needs to be challenged.

    Other European countries are much less likely to do so - although they're happy to take on ours...
    Mind you I can't see a Corbyn Government commissioning too many new warships.

    I think the only new boats being considered at the moment are the Trident replacement subs...........
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16962
    jpfamps said:
    ICBM said:
    Corbyn now wants to guarantee that Royal Navy contracts are awarded to UK shipyards. Quite where, given that apparently the ones we still do have are at capacity with the current warship orders, I don't know - but it will be popular, and in my opinion it's about time someone said so. The constant giving of public contracts to overseas bidders because it appears to be 'cheaper' - in terms of the headline price - when the reality is that it always costs the country more overall, needs to be challenged.

    Other European countries are much less likely to do so - although they're happy to take on ours...
    Mind you I can't see a Corbyn Government commissioning too many new warships.

    I think the only new boats being considered at the moment are the Trident replacement subs...........
    They'll be building the new Type 26 frigates, support vessels and fishery protection ships.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 1417
    Fretwired said:
    jpfamps said:
    ICBM said:
    Corbyn now wants to guarantee that Royal Navy contracts are awarded to UK shipyards. Quite where, given that apparently the ones we still do have are at capacity with the current warship orders, I don't know - but it will be popular, and in my opinion it's about time someone said so. The constant giving of public contracts to overseas bidders because it appears to be 'cheaper' - in terms of the headline price - when the reality is that it always costs the country more overall, needs to be challenged.

    Other European countries are much less likely to do so - although they're happy to take on ours...
    Mind you I can't see a Corbyn Government commissioning too many new warships.

    I think the only new boats being considered at the moment are the Trident replacement subs...........
    They'll be building the new Type 26 frigates, support vessels and fishery protection ships.
    I thought the Type 26 Frigate contracts had already been signed (although I'm still to be convinced of the requirement for the type 26)

    Didn't know about the other vessels.
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16962
    jpfamps said:
    Fretwired said:
    jpfamps said:
    ICBM said:
    Corbyn now wants to guarantee that Royal Navy contracts are awarded to UK shipyards. Quite where, given that apparently the ones we still do have are at capacity with the current warship orders, I don't know - but it will be popular, and in my opinion it's about time someone said so. The constant giving of public contracts to overseas bidders because it appears to be 'cheaper' - in terms of the headline price - when the reality is that it always costs the country more overall, needs to be challenged.

    Other European countries are much less likely to do so - although they're happy to take on ours...
    Mind you I can't see a Corbyn Government commissioning too many new warships.

    I think the only new boats being considered at the moment are the Trident replacement subs...........
    They'll be building the new Type 26 frigates, support vessels and fishery protection ships.
    I thought the Type 26 Frigate contracts had already been signed (although I'm still to be convinced of the requirement for the type 26)

    Didn't know about the other vessels.
    There was talk of having the support ships built in China but I think May's worked out it would aid Sturgeon's independence claims so they'll be built in England and Scotland. The fishery protection vessels are going to be built in Scotland. I think one is finished. The contracts for the Type 26 frigate have been signed but I don't think much work has been done.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 32822
    jpfamps said:

    It's not just orders, but also repairs.

    There isn't enough space to fix the (proedominantly UK-built) type 45 destroyers as it is.
    Presumably because the facilities we have have been scaled down due to too much work being awarded overseas already...

    It's a farcical situation when a country which used to dominate shipbuilding and once had the most powerful navy in the world - admittedly nearly a century ago now - can't even build and maintain its own fleet now.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16962
    ICBM said:
    jpfamps said:

    It's not just orders, but also repairs.

    There isn't enough space to fix the (proedominantly UK-built) type 45 destroyers as it is.
    Presumably because the facilities we have have been scaled down due to too much work being awarded overseas already...

    It's a farcical situation when a country which used to dominate shipbuilding and once had the most powerful navy in the world - admittedly nearly a century ago now - can't even build and maintain its own fleet now.
    Er .. we do. All the RN's warships are built and maintained in the UK or UK owned facilities - the navy still has bases all over the world including a brand new facility in Bahrain.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 32822
    Fretwired said:

    Er .. we do. All the RN's warships are built and maintained in the UK or UK owned facilities - the navy still has bases all over the world including a brand new facility in Bahrain. 
    Read the article.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-44074894

    "Warships", as in combat ships, yes - but the contracts for fleet auxiliaries and tankers are being given to overseas builders... four to Korea already. One reason for it is because BAe are full to capacity already.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16962
    ICBM said:
    Fretwired said:

    Er .. we do. All the RN's warships are built and maintained in the UK or UK owned facilities - the navy still has bases all over the world including a brand new facility in Bahrain. 
    Read the article.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-44074894

    "Warships", as in combat ships, yes - but the contracts for fleet auxiliaries and tankers are being given to overseas builders... four to Korea already. One reason for it is because BAe are full to capacity already.
    The report seems out of date as May has said they will be built in the UK .. I think they are pushing some of the frigates back.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11476
    Fretwired said:
    UKIP are broke .. they won't be able to field candidates.
    And vinyl was once dead... never write anything off too quickly. Perhaps we'll skip yet another 80's revival and move onto the UKIP years. Nu-KIP: The Next Generation....
    Clarity over quantity.  
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  • exocetexocet Frets: 557
    Fretwired said:
    UKIP are broke .. they won't be able to field candidates.
    And vinyl was once dead... never write anything off too quickly. Perhaps we'll skip yet another 80's revival and move onto the UKIP years. Nu-KIP: The Next Generation....
    UKIP are finished unless a new Farage type figure emerges plus new financial backing...can't see it myself irrespective of how Brexit goes. 
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16962
    exocet said:
    Fretwired said:
    UKIP are broke .. they won't be able to field candidates.
    And vinyl was once dead... never write anything off too quickly. Perhaps we'll skip yet another 80's revival and move onto the UKIP years. Nu-KIP: The Next Generation....
    UKIP are finished unless a new Farage type figure emerges plus new financial backing...can't see it myself irrespective of how Brexit goes. 
    ^^

    This.

    UKIP are finished. No backers, no charismatic leader.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11476
    And 20 years ago the notion of a union-led socialist Labour commanded by a scruffy backbencher would have been scoffed at. On the face of it, UKIP are dead in the water but there have been enough absurdities in recent politics to be sure of anything being truly over. 

    Not that I'd be particularly disappointed if I were wrong :)
    Clarity over quantity.  
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  • thomasw88thomasw88 Frets: 751
    Chalky said:
    Gotta love this paragraph of idiocy:

    "Exports from Britain to the EU could be hit by tariffs. Queues could form at ports for EU customs checks, and the City could be blocked from Europe’s markets. The “nuclear option” could lead to British aircraft being grounded through the EU’s “single sky” rules."

    Ya think EU tariffs would go unchallenged and the UK wouldn't respond with tariffs on German cars and French foods?

    Ya think cutting off the EU businesses from the City's money markets will have no effect on the EU?

    Ya think the UK wouldn't restrict airspace access in response to the meaningless EU attempt to ground UK air operations?

    Clearly this Brussels source is a clown.
    Most of the banks are slowing shifting work/jobs  to european offices now.   There won't be a collapse in the City, but what will happen is that over a relative short period of time the importance and value of the city/ UK markets  will diminish.  

    We'd do worse out of a trade war than the EU.  
    Why can't you see that.

    The issue with airspace is legality/licencing, its not 'punishment' - stop swallowing nonsense from the right wing press.




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  • ChalkyChalky Frets: 5661
    thomasw88 said:
    Chalky said:
    Gotta love this paragraph of idiocy:

    "Exports from Britain to the EU could be hit by tariffs. Queues could form at ports for EU customs checks, and the City could be blocked from Europe’s markets. The “nuclear option” could lead to British aircraft being grounded through the EU’s “single sky” rules."

    Ya think EU tariffs would go unchallenged and the UK wouldn't respond with tariffs on German cars and French foods?

    Ya think cutting off the EU businesses from the City's money markets will have no effect on the EU?

    Ya think the UK wouldn't restrict airspace access in response to the meaningless EU attempt to ground UK air operations?

    Clearly this Brussels source is a clown.
    Most of the banks are slowing shifting work/jobs  to european offices now.   There won't be a collapse in the City, but what will happen is that over a relative short period of time the importance and value of the city/ UK markets  will diminish.  

    We'd do worse out of a trade war than the EU.  
    Why can't you see that.

    The issue with airspace is legality/licencing, its not 'punishment' - stop swallowing nonsense from the right wing press.




    Can't be arsed to argue as you have zero experience in these topics.
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16962
    thomasw88 said:

    Most of the banks are slowing shifting work/jobs  to european offices now.   There won't be a collapse in the City, but what will happen is that over a relative short period of time the importance and value of the city/ UK markets  will diminish.  

    We'd do worse out of a trade war than the EU.  
    Why can't you see that.

    The issue with airspace is legality/licencing, its not 'punishment' - stop swallowing nonsense from the right wing press.


      True .. 5,000 people have gone to Frankfurt ... hardly anything ..

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-14/some-20-banks-expanding-in-frankfurt-on-brexit-lobby-group-says

    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • thomasw88thomasw88 Frets: 751
    Chalky said:
    thomasw88 said:
    Chalky said:
    Gotta love this paragraph of idiocy:

    "Exports from Britain to the EU could be hit by tariffs. Queues could form at ports for EU customs checks, and the City could be blocked from Europe’s markets. The “nuclear option” could lead to British aircraft being grounded through the EU’s “single sky” rules."

    Ya think EU tariffs would go unchallenged and the UK wouldn't respond with tariffs on German cars and French foods?

    Ya think cutting off the EU businesses from the City's money markets will have no effect on the EU?

    Ya think the UK wouldn't restrict airspace access in response to the meaningless EU attempt to ground UK air operations?

    Clearly this Brussels source is a clown.
    Most of the banks are slowing shifting work/jobs  to european offices now.   There won't be a collapse in the City, but what will happen is that over a relative short period of time the importance and value of the city/ UK markets  will diminish.  

    We'd do worse out of a trade war than the EU.  
    Why can't you see that.

    The issue with airspace is legality/licencing, its not 'punishment' - stop swallowing nonsense from the right wing press.




    Can't be arsed to argue as you have zero experience in these topics.e
    well I haven't personally exited from the EU, but then again neither have you. You can't be arsed to argue because you have no argument would be my supposition.
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  • thomasw88thomasw88 Frets: 751
    Fretwired said:
    thomasw88 said:

    Most of the banks are slowing shifting work/jobs  to european offices now.   There won't be a collapse in the City, but what will happen is that over a relative short period of time the importance and value of the city/ UK markets  will diminish.  

    We'd do worse out of a trade war than the EU.  
    Why can't you see that.

    The issue with airspace is legality/licencing, its not 'punishment' - stop swallowing nonsense from the right wing press.


      True .. 5,000 people have gone to Frankfurt ... hardly anything ..

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-14/some-20-banks-expanding-in-frankfurt-on-brexit-lobby-group-says

    and over the next few years more no doubt will follow. Plus expansion within Britain of their workforces is likely to be moved elsewhere.
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11476
    thomasw88 said:
    well I haven't personally exited from the EU, but then again neither have you. You can't be arsed to argue because you have no argument would be my supposition.
    I went to Train World in Brussels earlier this year. Does that help? 

    And it was fucking brilliant. Wonderful wonderful place. 
    Clarity over quantity.  
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  • thomasw88thomasw88 Frets: 751
    thomasw88 said:
    well I haven't personally exited from the EU, but then again neither have you. You can't be arsed to argue because you have no argument would be my supposition.
    I went to Train World in Brussels earlier this year. Does that help? 

    And it was fucking brilliant. Wonderful wonderful place. 
    You're probably more qualified than the total idiots we've got leading the negotiations.
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  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 1417
    ICBM said:
    jpfamps said:

    It's not just orders, but also repairs.

    There isn't enough space to fix the (proedominantly UK-built) type 45 destroyers as it is.
    Presumably because the facilities we have have been scaled down due to too much work being awarded overseas already...

    It's a farcical situation when a country which used to dominate shipbuilding and once had the most powerful navy in the world - admittedly nearly a century ago now - can't even build and maintain its own fleet now.
    Well it's not helped by the fact that all the Type 45 Destroyers need an engine upgrade due to poor engineering in the first place.

    The UK's ship building industry was in decline relative to the rest of the World from the end of the 19th Century; in fact it was only viable due to massive naval spending.
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