Same song, different melody?

What's Hot
NiallseroreillyNiallseroreilly Frets: 370
A while ago i begun my foray into learning jazz....a tough road it is.

I went for a lesson, albeit free lesson, with a well known jazz trumpet player in my home town.

During the lesson he played ' Summertime'. But alas the recognisable melody that people all around the world recognise was absent.

Hence to the ignorant me it didnt sound anything like summertime.

Can anyone of these gracious hallows explain to be how someone can to play a melody that isnt in the song then claim to be playing that song?
0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter

Comments

  • AlexCAlexC Frets: 1377
    My explanation would be - you can’t. I have Miles Davis doing Summertime - he starts with the famous melody, plays around it, goes off it and then comes back to it. But it is recognisably Summertime.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • NiallseroreillyNiallseroreilly Frets: 370
    AlexC said:
    My explanation would be - you can’t. I have Miles Davis doing Summertime - he starts with the famous melody, plays around it, goes off it and then comes back to it. But it is recognisably Summertime.
    Is it common that people try to though?
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • AlexCAlexC Frets: 1377
    What I’m trying so say is - regardless of musical genre, in order to play a tune/song it has to recognisably be that tune/song. Improv is fine, but has to be anchored. I’m a listener of jazz and can play jazz guitar to a certain level, but sadly - and this is why so many people take the piss out of ‘jazz’ (which is as broad a term as saying ‘rock’) is that some jazz players just go off on a wild tangent which is nothing to do with anything. A bit like shredding - which is also arbitrary and often unnecessary.
    1reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 3365
    edited May 12
    The vocalist equivalent would be the *Whitney-ising* of a well thought out melody by the gratuitous addition of florid ornamentation. 

    AlexC said:
    Miles Davis doing Summertime - he starts with the famous melody, plays around it, goes off it and then comes back to it but it is recognisably Summertime.
    That is a normal practice is Jazz. The improvisation away from the set melody presumes audience familiarity with the set melody and some music theory understanding of the variations being applied to it. 

    Leaping straight into the ornamentation is either attention seeking, a display of lack of theoretical understanding or both.

    "It's no wonder the Pacific Ocean is blue."
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • blobbblobb Frets: 904
    Happens in folk all the time, same song different melody and visa versa.
    Feelin' Reelin' & Squeelin'
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • BarneyBarney Frets: 353
    Jazz is mostly improvisation and how the players interpret a tune ..I agree though sometimes it could be anything and the only thing that is recognisable are the chords ...to me the best jazz is when you can still hear the melody through the improvisation 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • GrangousierGrangousier Frets: 173
    I think it's that in jazz, the important bit is what the chords are - the changes - and the melody is kind of incidental. The melody can be copyrighted, but chords can't, so a lot of jazz from bebop and on are based on the chords from pre-existing songs, sometimes very recognisable, with new tunes over the top - these are called contrafacts. The most famous set of changes outside of the blues would be the chords to I Got Rhythm (a.k.a. the rhythm changes). 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 3365
    "It's no wonder the Pacific Ocean is blue."
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • NiallseroreillyNiallseroreilly Frets: 370
    The vocalist equivalent would be the *Whitney-ising* of a well thought out melody by the gratuitous addition of florid ornamentation. 

    AlexC said:
    Miles Davis doing Summertime - he starts with the famous melody, plays around it, goes off it and then comes back to it but it is recognisably Summertime.
    That is a normal practice is Jazz. The improvisation away from the set melody presumes audience familiarity with the set melody and some music theory understanding of the variations being applied to it. 

    Leaping straight into the ornamentation is either attention seeking, a display of lack of theoretical understanding or both.

    This makes sense, thank you @Funkfingers ;
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • 57Deluxe57Deluxe Frets: 5864
    edited July 31
    Same Song different melody...

    Ralph McTell - Streets of London  vs  Don't look Back in Anger - Oasis
    <Vintage BOSS Upgrades>
    __________________________________
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
Sign In or Register to comment.