Berlinah Wallace gets away with murder

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Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 8254
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 12481
    Well, she didn't actually kill him did she ?  She has been found guilty of 'Throwing a corrosive substance with intent' and will likely get a prison sentence for that, but in terms of the definition of the crime of murder, I don't think it could be proven that she intended to kill him.  A manslaughter charge could have been more appropriate perhaps ?
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 8254
    He died as a direct consequence of her behaviour so manslaughter is the very least she should get convicted of
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 8254
    as for punishment, I reckon a douche with acid in both holes would be sufficient
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  • GarthyGarthy Frets: 1546
    What ever sentence she recieves will not be enough. If you hacked off someone’s face with a knife you’d be detained indefinitely, she did the same with a corrosive so she should be excluded from society indefinitely too.
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  • boogiemanboogieman Frets: 4767
    The jury obviously heard enough evidence to say she didn’t pre-plan it, so it doesn’t count as murder. From what I’ve seen, it does sounds like she’ll be done for man slaughter. Hell of a way to die, whatever. The poor bastard.  :'(
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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 12414
    boogieman said:
    The jury obviously heard enough evidence to say she didn’t pre-plan it, so it doesn’t count as murder. From what I’ve seen, it does sounds like she’ll be done for man slaughter. Hell of a way to die, whatever. The poor bastard.  :'(
    What? Euthanasia?
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 8254
    boogieman said:
    The jury obviously heard enough evidence to say she didn’t pre-plan it, so it doesn’t count as murder. From what I’ve seen, it does sounds like she’ll be done for man slaughter. Hell of a way to die, whatever. The poor bastard.  :'(
    What? Euthanasia?
    A voluntary death-wish because of the dreadful condition he'd been left in
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 12481
    Garthy said:
    What ever sentence she recieves will not be enough.
    None of us have heard any evidence and yet you’re confident to call the sentence inadequate before it’s even been decided ?

    I have some excellent quality pitchforks in stock at the moment, absolute bargain...  Would you like a try ?
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  • GarthyGarthy Frets: 1546
    Emp_Fab said:
    Garthy said:
    What ever sentence she recieves will not be enough.
    None of us have heard any evidence and yet you’re confident to call the sentence inadequate before it’s even been decided ?

    I have some excellent quality pitchforks in stock at the moment, absolute bargain...  Would you like a try ?
    There’s quite a bit of evidence- she bought 1 litre of sulphuric acid and researched acid attacks on her computer. I’m not sure what revelations you’re expecting 

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/17/kill-me-now-acid-attack-led-euthanasia-mark-van-dongen
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  • underdogunderdog Frets: 5236
    Garthy said:
    Emp_Fab said:
    Garthy said:
    What ever sentence she recieves will not be enough.
    None of us have heard any evidence and yet you’re confident to call the sentence inadequate before it’s even been decided ?

    I have some excellent quality pitchforks in stock at the moment, absolute bargain...  Would you like a try ?
    There’s quite a bit of evidence- she bought 1 litre of sulphuric acid and researched acid attacks on her computer. I’m not sure what revelations you’re expecting 

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/17/kill-me-now-acid-attack-led-euthanasia-mark-van-dongen

    That's a genuinely brutal thing to read. This wasn't a bit of acid and bad facial burns, Jesus, someone who could inflict something like this on another living thing doesn't deserve to be free ever again.

    A young man opted for euthensaia based on what she done to him while she laughed. Sick, sick woman.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 30310
    edited May 17
    It was the wrong charge - she didn’t kill him, even indirectly, so it could not be murder or manslaughter.

    It should have been attempted murder. In which case she could still have been given a life sentence.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 3993
    Emp_Fab said:
    Well, she didn't actually kill him did she ?  She has been found guilty of 'Throwing a corrosive substance with intent' and will likely get a prison sentence for that, but in terms of the definition of the crime of murder, I don't think it could be proven that she intended to kill him.  A manslaughter charge could have been more appropriate perhaps ?
    that's not the definition
    it's something like (A) "planned intention to do something that anyone reasonable would think could risk causing GBH", plus (B) the victim dying because of their injuries

    My guess is that the jury felt that part (B) was not proved
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 3993
    Emp_Fab said:
    Garthy said:
    What ever sentence she recieves will not be enough.
    None of us have heard any evidence and yet you’re confident to call the sentence inadequate before it’s even been decided ?

    I have some excellent quality pitchforks in stock at the moment, absolute bargain...  Would you like a try ?
    I know you like to defend the ladies, but really? FFS
    The evidence is that she bought the acid, and researched acid attacks
    She knew what she was doing, therefore she intended to destroy his "normal" life, and disable him for life, therefore no prison sentence could be more harsh than the result of her planned actions
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  • prowlaprowla Frets: 830
    Evil, nasty, horrific, but not murder.
    Based on the information, I hope she gets locked away for ever.
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 12481
    Emp_Fab said:
    Garthy said:
    What ever sentence she recieves will not be enough.
    None of us have heard any evidence and yet you’re confident to call the sentence inadequate before it’s even been decided ?

    I have some excellent quality pitchforks in stock at the moment, absolute bargain...  Would you like a try ?
    I know you like to defend the ladies, but really? FFS
    The evidence is that she bought the acid, and researched acid attacks
    She knew what she was doing, therefore she intended to destroy his "normal" life, and disable him for life, therefore no prison sentence could be more harsh than the result of her planned actions
    It's got nothing to do with "defending the ladies" - it's about defending the law.  None of us were at the trial, none of us were jurors.  None of us heard all of the evidence.  All any of us have heard is what has been published in the media - and how many times has that been proven to be a pile of made-up shit ?  I'm not saying that what we have heard from the media is a load of bollocks, but as a dependable paragon of the truth, it's up there with Donald Trump.

    I'm railing against the declaration of an unknown sentence as inadequate by people who don't have the full picture and who are by no means in any position to criticise the judgement of legal professionals who do have the full picture.  The judicial process must be respected.  Undermining it with statements to the effect that 'whatever outcome it produces will be inadequate' is the thin end of the wedge and the starting point of mob mentality.
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  • MattBansheeMattBanshee Frets: 501
    She was found guilty of throwing acid with intent, which is exactly what the evidence suggests. She didn't kill him, the acid didn't kill him - he killed himself. 
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 8254
    She was found guilty of throwing acid with intent, which is exactly what the evidence suggests. She didn't kill him, the acid didn't kill him - he killed himself. 
    That may be the bare facts according to the law. I still say he wouldn't have wished for death if she hadn't so horribly injured him: her behaviour led to his death and is therefore culpable.

    You get similar issues when teenagers bully each other online and incite each other towards suicide.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 10444
    boogieman said:
    The jury obviously heard enough evidence to say she didn’t pre-plan it, so it doesn’t count as murder. From what I’ve seen, it does sounds like she’ll be done for man slaughter. Hell of a way to die, whatever. The poor bastard. 
    No she won't. The jury acquitted her for murder or manslaughter. 
    I make Jeremy Paxman look like Fingermouse. 
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 10444
    Emp_Fab said:


    I'm railing against the declaration of an unknown sentence as inadequate by people who don't have the full picture and who are by no means in any position to criticise the judgement of legal professionals who do have the full picture.  The judicial process must be respected.  Undermining it with statements to the effect that 'whatever outcome it produces will be inadequate' is the thin end of the wedge and the starting point of mob mentality.

    That is true. A couple of m'learned friends in the field believe the sentence will be maximum and will test out the CPS guidelines with regard to acid attacks and life sentences. 

    What she did was horrific. I've been following the case since moving down to London from Bristol via the Bristol Post, a newspaper which doesn't tend to explode into hyperbole. 

    https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-fashion-student-berlinah-wallace-1531304

    A short sentence for her actions would be met with quite a shout of outrage in my opinion, and rightfully so. 
    I make Jeremy Paxman look like Fingermouse. 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 30310
    Heartfeltdawn said:

    That is true. A couple of m'learned friends in the field believe the sentence will be maximum and will test out the CPS guidelines with regard to acid attacks and life sentences.
    I think so too. As I understand it, judges don't usually like to give out maximum sentences because that essentially means that another judge can't then more heavily punish a worse case. But that does assume that it's possible to think of a worse case.

    She's lucky this is not Iran, where the punishment for a crime involving injury or death can be the imposition of the same.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/03/iran-blind-acid-attack-woman-retribution-punishment/
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 8254
    ICBM said:

    She's lucky this is not Iran, where the punishment for a crime involving injury or death can be the imposition of the same.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/03/iran-blind-acid-attack-woman-retribution-punishment/
    I've been highly critical of sharia law in the past but a case like this makes me think the punishment should fit the crime.
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 10444
    I've been highly critical of sharia law in the past but a case like this makes me think the punishment should fit the crime.
    Oh no, another one falls victim to lefty Moozlim propaganda. Wait until the username changes to Phil_aka_AbdulAlSalahuddin. Supermosque in Suffolk, here we come. 


    I make Jeremy Paxman look like Fingermouse. 
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 12481
    She was found guilty of throwing acid with intent, which is exactly what the evidence suggests. She didn't kill him, the acid didn't kill him - he killed himself. 
    That may be the bare facts according to the law.
    ...Otherwise known as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.  You can’t really complain that the law isn’t considering things that aren’t the “bare facts” surely ?
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  • mellowsunmellowsun Frets: 2286
    Based on previous acid attacks she’ll get between 10 and 25 years. Probably the lower.
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 8254
    Emp_Fab said:
    She was found guilty of throwing acid with intent, which is exactly what the evidence suggests. She didn't kill him, the acid didn't kill him - he killed himself. 
    That may be the bare facts according to the law.
    ...Otherwise known as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.  You can’t really complain that the law isn’t considering things that aren’t the “bare facts” surely ?
    ... which has not considered the consequence of those bare facts. I draw your attention again to the cases of teenagers bullying each other online and talking their victims into committing suicide. By your argument the bullies would be blameless because they didn't actually kill their victims.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 10444
    Emp_Fab said:
    She was found guilty of throwing acid with intent, which is exactly what the evidence suggests. She didn't kill him, the acid didn't kill him - he killed himself. 
    That may be the bare facts according to the law.
    ...Otherwise known as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.  You can’t really complain that the law isn’t considering things that aren’t the “bare facts” surely ?
    ... which has not considered the consequence of those bare facts. I draw your attention again to the cases of teenagers bullying each other online and talking their victims into committing suicide. By your argument the bullies would be blameless because they didn't actually kill their victims.

    And what charge did those teenagers receive for their part in these suicides? 

    I make Jeremy Paxman look like Fingermouse. 
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 8254
    @Heartfeltdawn I've no idea. Maybe nothing, maybe something that doesn't really add up to anything that represents the serious nature of what they did. However by Emp_Fab's argument they would be blameless, and I can't agree with that.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 10444

    The problem is the law itself and the charges that had been placed against her. The woman was up on a charge of murder and manslaughter. She was acquitted of both as there wasn't enough evidence to prove either. She did not murder him so that charge can't be proven. A charge of manslaughter would be closer to the mark but his eventual death was his own choice. She was fond guilty of one charge that stuck, now we have to wait for the sentence. 

    I don't believe Emp thinks she was blameless. His initial post disagrees with the notion that she got away with murder as did the jury. 

    I make Jeremy Paxman look like Fingermouse. 
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  • thermionicthermionic Frets: 4439
    mellowsun said:
    Based on previous acid attacks she’ll get between 10 and 25 years. Probably the lower.
    If you read the accounts in the Guardian article for instance, this seems quite different to previous acid attacks I’ve read about. The results on the poor guy were totally devastating.
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  • GarthyGarthy Frets: 1546
    mellowsun said:
    Based on previous acid attacks she’ll get between 10 and 25 years. Probably the lower.
    If you read the accounts in the Guardian article for instance, this seems quite different to previous acid attacks I’ve read about. The results on the poor guy were totally devastating.
    She used a much more powerful acid. Most acid attacks are drain cleaner which itself is nasty stuff but she used sulphuric acid.
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