Help linking up Pentaatonic Shapes

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Learnt all the shapes vertically, struggling like buggery seeing them horizontally though. Any tips, or drills to help me be able to solo using all the positions with ease?

cheers 
Chris


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  • LestratcasterLestratcaster Frets: 379
    Try to think of the notes as intervals in relation to one another. E.g if you have a root on a string, the minor 3rd is either 3 frets up on the same string or the next one down but 2 frets back, that kinda thing. Repeat it with the fifths and other intervals and you'll start to expand the neck. Once you know where all the notes are then its more fluent and you get less "boxy" type shape playing but open up the neck a bit more.
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 18458
    1. Slow down.
    2. Link arpeggios, not scales.
    I am the juice of four limes.
    Trading Feedback
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  • markblagdonmarkblagdon Frets: 741
    Make sure you know the root note positions and link them using those

    G Pent Minor
    position 1: root =6th string 3rd fret and 4th string 5th fret (E minor shape chord)
    position 2: root = 4th string 5th fret and 2nd string 8th fret (D minor shape chord)
    position 3: root = 2nd string 8th fret and 5th string 10th fret ,etc (C shape chord)

    mapping a chord shape and/or arpeggio to each scale shape was the best method I found, and helps you make any licks resolve to the right notes

    Desi Serna has a great fretboard theory course on this with great rock/pop music examples using each shape.
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  • markblagdonmarkblagdon Frets: 741
    Also watch the stitchmethod youtube video on his never lost Pentatonic pattern that also helped me, was worth $2 for the diagram as well
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  • bwetsbwets Frets: 31
    Try playing the the scale on one string. Play it through on all 6 strings. Mix it up playing it on one string and in one position. Play it starting on a random root note. Then play it starting on a random minor third. Keep going.

    It helps if you can sing the scale.
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  • vizviz Frets: 4938
    The way I learned, which I’m not saying is the best necessarily but it got me to a certain level) was completely not shape-oriented, it was sound-oriented, based on the music I was trying to play. So wherever I was on the fretboard, if I wanted to go up a minor 3rd or a perfect 5th, I’d 1) hear it in my head, 2) try and find it, and 3) remember that intervallic shape on tFB. 

    It’s a bit haphazard approach and probably a slower method technique-wise, but I think maybe it helps me to play what’s in my head without playing well-worn shapes.
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  • robinbowesrobinbowes Frets: 1812
    viz said:
    The way I learned, which I’m not saying is the best necessarily but it got me to a certain level) was completely not shape-oriented, it was sound-oriented, based on the music I was trying to play. So wherever I was on the fretboard, if I wanted to go up a minor 3rd or a perfect 5th, I’d 1) hear it in my head, 2) try and find it, and 3) remember that intervallic shape on tFB. 

    It’s a bit haphazard approach and probably a slower method technique-wise, but I think maybe it helps me to play what’s in my head without playing well-worn shapes.
    I do something similar, ie. play what I hear, rather than blindly playing shapes (although, I do that some times, if I'm being lazy :) )
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 10880
    It helped me a fair bit when I learned the solo to Pink Floyd's Money. The solo moves horizontally much more that I was doing at the time, and it got me more into moving between positions rather than staying in them. I started whipping through them quickly with a couple of notes rather than pausing to go 'vertically' for a bit.


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  • HAL9000HAL9000 Frets: 3966
    edited May 24
    If you’re playing, say, a first position pentatonic...


    |-1-+—-+—-+-4-+
    |-1-+—-+-3-+—-+
    |-1-+—-+-3-+—-+
    |-1-+—-+-3-+—-+
    |-1-+—-+—-+-4-+
    |-1-+—-+—-+-4-+


    ...then on the notes marked as 3 or 4 above, instead using your third or fourth (or maybe your second or third) fingers, just slide your first or second finger up and, voila!, you’re in the second pentatonic box.
    It might look like I'm listening to you, but in my head I'm playing my guitar.
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 2012
    Three things:
    bwets said:
    Try playing the the scale on one string. 
    HAL9000 said:
    ... instead using your third or fourth (or maybe your second or third) fingers, just slide your first or second finger up and, voila!, you’re in the second pentatonic box.
    Then work out complete scales:
    |————————————-10-12
    |——————————8-10-12
    |————————7-9
    |—————-5-7-9
    |———2-5-7
    |0-3-5

    and
    |————————————-7-10-12
    |——————————8-10-12
    |————————7-9
    |—————-5-7-9
    |——0-2-5-7
    |0-3
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  • chrisoldroydchrisoldroyd Frets: 1
    Thanks all for the great advice
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  • tachycardia23tachycardia23 Frets: 6
    edited May 24
    To add to your confusion...here's my tuppence worth

    I had a bit of a breakthrough recently in this area recently. Basically it revolved around noticing when I was back on a root note when running a scale and noticing that from that point the pattern can just be repeated. As long as you know where the roots are the others are easier to work out.

     I found thinking of the scale formulas in tones/semitones worked well with this. A whole step is 2 frets, a half is 1 fret.

    The minor pentatonic in tones is 1.5 (3 frets) - 1 (2 frets) - 1 (2 frets) - 1.5 (3 frets) - 1 (2 frets) Totalling 12 frets or all of the diatonic scale bringing you back to your root note if played on one string

    So whenever I hit a root note in a position I know that 3 frets up on the same string is the next note in the pentatonic minor. Once I could see this, I could see more easily how the different positions fit together.

    When going between strings, there's 5 frets difference in tuning between the EADG then 4 to the B and 5 again to high E. Now I may be a bit weird but I just do a quick bit of arithmetic here.

    If I'm doing an A minor pentatonic on the 6th string it's the 5th fret, now the next note is C, 1.5 steps, 3 frets away on the 8th fret. If I change string to the next one down then I can take away 5 from 8 and get 3, the 3rd Fret on the 5th string, which is C...

    I'm now working on learning the notes in each key and relating them to the step formulas and seeing the root notes on the fretboard so I can get where I need to go

    I hope that helped and didn't make it worse!

    Also, try this tool - https://grunfy.com/scaler.html - The coloured buttons at the bottom correspond to the 5 positions


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  • markblagdonmarkblagdon Frets: 741
    edited May 24
    To add to your confusion...here's my tuppence worth

    I had a bit of a breakthrough recently in this area recently. Basically it revolved around noticing when I was back on a root note when running a scale and noticing that from that point the pattern can just be repeated. As long as you know where the roots are the others are easier to work out.

     I found thinking of the scale formulas in tones/semitones worked well with this. A whole step is 2 frets, a half is 1 fret.

    The minor pentatonic in tones is 1.5 (3 frets) - 1 (2 frets) - 1 (2 frets) - 1.5 (3 frets) - 1 (2 frets) Totalling 12 frets or all of the diatonic scale bringing you back to your root note if played on one string

    So whenever I hit a root note in a position I know that 3 frets up on the same string is the next note in the pentatonic minor. Once I could see this, I could see more easily how the different positions fit together.

    When going between strings, there's 5 frets difference in tuning between the EADG then 4 to the B and 5 again to high E. Now I may be a bit weird but I just do a quick bit of arithmetic here.

    If I'm doing an A minor pentatonic on the 6th string it's the 5th fret, now the next note is C, 1.5 steps, 3 frets away on the 8th fret. If I change string to the next one down then I can take away 5 from 8 and get 3, the 3rd Fret on the 5th string, which is C...




    This is the way the stitchmethod youtube video I mentioned works. It’s a good way to link the useful bits of each pattern

    https://youtu.be/SHKjSBV0n3w
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  • clarkefanclarkefan Frets: 444
    Thanks for posting that link, very useful :) I'm not sure why he feels the need to play the root twice rather than just sliding up to it, but fair play, some food for thought there, appreciate it :)
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  • 19791979 Frets: 54
    I’ve just come across this thread, there’s some good things to break you out of the same tired routes up and down the fretboard , much appreciated guys
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  • BarneyBarney Frets: 350
    Try linking just 2 strings at a time ...it's also good for phrasing as well I think 
    So play say b and e strings and practice moving between position one at a time then do with the next set of strings linking again ...ECT...then link using 3 strings then 4 ECT..it will help you visualise..then move between the next 2 shapes ....also it breaks you out of scale type playing and gives all sorts of different ideas and is good for phrasing cos you are limiting the amount of notes ..
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  • poopotpoopot Frets: 1293
    The way I originally “got it” is as bellow.

    Take the minor pentatonic below (its in G)


     

    Pattern 1 is a very similar "shape" to Pattern 4... learn these two patterns first.. till you know them blindfolded...

    And now for the big secret reveal... once you have learnt p1 and p4, you only have to learn the where the notes are for the second part of position 2:


    you now know the minor pentatonic across the whole neck and it’s easy to link them up.  
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  • StavrosStavros Frets: 79


    Also, try this tool - https://grunfy.com/scaler.html - The coloured buttons at the bottom correspond to the 5 positions


    Is it me or is there a bug on this? Doesn’t highlight the correct root note?
    I love my brick
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