In our best interests or in theirs?

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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 991
    edited June 3
    Chalky said:
    Ever noticed how those who are very left wing or very right wing both insist on living in the past?
    Ever noticed how those who don't read posts properly shouldn't comment on them?

    Remembering how an individual, or in this instance group of people treats you is a valuable life lesson is it not? It's not living in the past to reference that in the context of the OP's thread, it has a bearing on how politicians think and act now. Also it serves as an example of how they do things in their own best interests before they would do anything for us. Somewhere in his manifesto or potential policies is a benefit for Corbyn and co. although I'm not sure what, he isn't an altruist, none of them are unfortunately. Being extreme left or right wing has nothing to with it, I'm left of centre if anything. Just believe in a fair mix of socialism/capitalism instead of the situation we are currently heading for, something needs to change. Before anyone says it and talks about the evils of it, we've all benefitted from socialism in the UK despite the crap you're about to spout. It can be applied right with a fair mix of the devil's capitalism!

    I think Randella said it right on the first page, all this polarisation isn't helping, if these people are elected representatives then we need genuine cross party agreements to decide the best way forward. Not each side ploughing on with their unique past ideologies, or in their own best interests.

    What ICBM said too.

    P.s. it's pretty recent history actually when you see they're still up to the same tricks. Who benefitted the most from running Royal Mail into the ground then selling it off for less than it's worth? That decision will also come home to roost soon enough.

    .....and what to my wondering eyes should appear.....      nothing.......


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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 32822
    edited June 3
    Boromedic said:

    Somewhere in his manifesto or potential policies is a benefit for Corbyn and co. although I'm not sure what, he isn't an altruist, none of them are unfortunately.
    In my opinion it's a purely intellectual one. I think he's one of the very few politicians who is not even slightly corrupt in the conventional sense - if he was, he wouldn't have spent thirty years as an awkward backbencher doing everything he could to avoid climbing the political ladder and often recording the lowest expenses claim of any MP. Of course, he has been paid a decent salary and is undoubtedly financially comfortable, but I'd be very surprised if it has any bearing on his politics.

    Whether that's equally true for other members of the current Labour Party senior group, I don't know. There are surprises even with the ones you think you know - Alastair Darling was my MP for many years and everything I knew about him seemed to indicate he was one of the few honest ones too... then it transpired he'd fiddled his housing expenses - 'within the rules' as they applied at the time, but still disappointingly greedy and petty for someone who didn't need to stoop to that.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11477
    edited June 3
    Chalky said:
    Ever noticed how those who are very left wing or very right wing both insist on living in the past?
    No because both of these groups are talking of the past as a tool to inform them about the present and what might happen for the future. 

    The very nature of politics involves history. Whether it's the history of Parliament itself, the yoke around the American neck that is the Constitution, the theorists who inform views from Marx to Hayek, or the points of the past that hamper someone's attempts to modernise as Blair tried with Clause VI, the historical element is hugely informative and, in many cases, instructive. 

    Perhaps if Messrs Blair and Cameron had looked into British military history a bit more, we'd not have had such a balls up in Libya and Iraq. 
    Clarity over quantity.  
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11477
    Boromedic said:
    Chalky said:
    Ever noticed how those who are very left wing or very right wing both insist on living in the past?

    Somewhere in his manifesto or potential policies is a benefit for Corbyn and co. although I'm not sure what, he isn't an altruist, none of them are unfortunately. 
    I can't agree. Sadly the expenses scandal tainted politics as a whole and made large numbers of the public believe politicians of all colours were coining it in. When the Telegraph broke that story, I was working for a county council in Democratic Services and our telephone lines were hit by calls about expenses for councillors along with email requests for FOI requests as well as requests to see the declaration of interest for councillors. At the time, that declaration wasn't online. It was all written down and the public were allowed to see it and make notes but not allowed to photocopy it or take it away with them. That meant officer plebs like me would go to reception with the declaration book and have to sit with individuals whilst they made their notes. To describe it as a frustrating tedious waste of time is understating things, and putting that shit online was entirely sensible. 
    Clarity over quantity.  
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 32822
    Heartfeltdawn said:

    Perhaps if Messrs Blair and Cameron had looked into British military history a bit more, we'd not have had such a balls up in Libya and Iraq. 
    Not to mention Afghanistan... reading William Dalrymple's 'Return Of A King', it's quite remarkable how little has been learned in over 150 years, and how similar many of the mistakes made were despite the totally different era.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 991
    edited June 3
    Boromedic said:
    Chalky said:
    Ever noticed how those who are very left wing or very right wing both insist on living in the past?

    Somewhere in his manifesto or potential policies is a benefit for Corbyn and co. although I'm not sure what, he isn't an altruist, none of them are unfortunately. 
    I can't agree. Sadly the expenses scandal tainted politics as a whole and made large numbers of the public believe politicians of all colours were coining it in. When the Telegraph broke that story, I was working for a county council in Democratic Services and our telephone lines were hit by calls about expenses for councillors along with email requests for FOI requests as well as requests to see the declaration of interest for councillors. At the time, that declaration wasn't online. It was all written down and the public were allowed to see it and make notes but not allowed to photocopy it or take it away with them. That meant officer plebs like me would go to reception with the declaration book and have to sit with individuals whilst they made their notes. To describe it as a frustrating tedious waste of time is understating things, and putting that shit online was entirely sensible. 
    Fair do's mate, your expertise in this area far outweighs mine so I shall bow to your superior knowledge! Anyway if he really is more altruistic then it suits me to be honest. Even my admiration for what Corbyn is trying to achieve is still coloured by the shame I feel voting for Blair and the idea they're all on the make, plus I figured someone would drop some dirt on him if I didn't cover it.

    If he is, as you and ICBM suggest, a man of principle not personal gain (except maybe the knowledge thing IC mentions), then come the next election my x will go firmly in the Labour box, not that it wouldn't anyway as our local MP is a certain Mr A Bridgen and I have zero time for that fella, this picture sums it up for me:



    Childish I know, but funny none the less.

    .....and what to my wondering eyes should appear.....      nothing.......


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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11477
    edited June 3
    Boromedic said:
    Fair do's mate, your expertise in this area far outweighs mine so I shall bow to your superior knowledge! Anyway if he really is more altruistic then it suits me to be honest. Even my admiration for what Corbyn is trying to achieve is still coloured by the shame I feel voting for Blair and the idea they're all on the make, plus I figured someone would drop some dirt on him if I didn't cover it.

    If he is, as you and ICBM suggest, a man of principle not personal gain (except maybe the knowledge thing IC mentions), then come the next election my x will go firmly in the Labour box, not that it wouldn't anyway as our local MP is a certain Mr A Bridgen and I have zero time for that fella, this picture sums it up for me:



    Childish I know, but funny none the less.

    The surprise is that his sign didn't say "Standing with the Daily Mail" as he's been one of their automatic rent-a-quotes since the referendum. He's another of the not rare Leave group who curiously end up married to foreign types from this continent. Bridgen is an arse. Recall his classic family court whine:

    "My income has dropped by 70%. I fought two general elections in the last two years, where I could have lost my job, and, who knows, we might be fighting another one soon. “There is no more insecure ­employment than politics.” 

    A few people on zero hours contracts would raise an eyebrow at that. If Bridgen were to lose his seat, I would warrant that the cash paid to him after the event would be a damn sight better than, say, the like of Jamie's Italian, Carluccio's, Toys'r'us etc paid out. Bridgen's arseishness is a very sad contrast to that of his predecessor, the late David Taylor, who was a wonderfully independent Labour politician who worked bloody hard. 

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Taylor_(Labour_politician)




    Clarity over quantity.  
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11477
    Boromedic said:
    Fair do's mate, your expertise in this area far outweighs mine so I shall bow to your superior knowledge! Anyway if he really is more altruistic then it suits me to be honest. Even my admiration for what Corbyn is trying to achieve is still coloured by the shame I feel voting for Blair and the idea they're all on the make, plus I figured someone would drop some dirt on him if I didn't cover it.


    I thought it best to pop off at Bridgen separately :dizzy: 

    I think with Corbyn that there is personal gain through being able to do what he feels is the right thing. It would not appear that remunerative gain applies here going by that tax receipt he published:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/05/jeremy-corbyn-publishes-tax-returns-revealing-total-income-of-114342

    Jeremy Hunt, he is not!
    Clarity over quantity.  
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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 991
    Yep David Taylor was awesome, I remember him passing away at Christmas 2009 as I worked in the area at that time, desperately sad for his family. Then the impact on local politics was awful, Bridgen is a cretin of the highest order unfortunately.

    That area, NW Leicestershire is an odd one as it's a weird juxtaposition between ex-mining (although they are famous for going back to work defying the NUM, except for the notorius dirty 30), very working class/ex industrial, but with pockets of extreme wealth and also an expanding middle class. The whole area has altered in recent years due to becoming a hub and commuting hotspot with lots of new homes and a big service economy (lots of logistics and a new Amazon hub). However it's always flipped between the two big parties in election history, Tory first probably due to the mining thing, then Labour with our good friend Mr Blair before Bridgen took it. Here's hoping we can get rid next time around, his stance on lots of things just grates with me, and he did himself no favours with the famous quote you used above!!

    .....and what to my wondering eyes should appear.....      nothing.......


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