Minimum wattage for a gigging amp

daveyh

impmann said:

I gig a Laney Lionheart 20w head into a 2x12 cab with a loud drummer and a
loud 2nd guitarist (and bass player). Similar sort of material - maybe more classic punk and new wave plus some Ska. Currently not mic'd up

More than loud enough for pubs. I use a booster pedal for solos, an OD pedal for 'more gas' and that's it.

Great tone, loud as heck and portable. Job done

I'm talking small to medium size clubs, even though it's a given PA is available I just want all the bases to be covered.

Catthan

I think 20 to 40 watts should be OK in terms of amp tone, dynamics and headroom. apart from speaker configuration and sensitivity.

the "voicing" of the amp Is crucial imho, meaning where the mids attack is in the range. Eg, the LSS has more attack in the low mids which can be a problem with regard to cutting through. loud enough for sure but if you push it it just adds low mids in the mix. If you dial in more highs it cuts through but looses attack And definition. And putting a v30 may make it harsh... So yeah, I think the voice of the amp and the type of music-band are important

Fez

I use an HT20 with a 1x12 with a 70/80 in it and usually using the dsl401 as an extension cab but I am hankering after a 2x12.

Roland

Depends on the type of music. For most things a 30w valve combo would be adequate. Personally I prefer a 2x12 for spread

ragingben

I've gigged a Blackheart Little Giant, the 5w one, and it was great for crunch with a Way Huge Green Rhino driving it, and it was just enough for that kind of thing, but the squeaky cleans weren't there, nor were the big chugga chugga moments

ecc83

Fez said:

I use an HT20 with a 1x12 with a 70/80 in it and usually using the dsl401 as an extension cab but I am hankering after a 2x12.

You could try just swapping the incumbent "wonderous" Rocket for a V30? 

Dave.

Branshen

I use my 5 watt vox and an SM58. That is my ultimate portable rig, since I dont have a car at the moment.

ToneControl

I think ICBM has covered all the important points:

for clean you'd need 50-100w really (Robert Cay, SRV, John Mayer)

for breaking up 30w-50w

for very overdriven 15-30w, but of course a lot of guys with very OD'd tone use a big amp since they use a lot of time-based FX in the FX loop, and get all their OD from pedals or the preamp, so they'd want 50-100w again

speaker drivers do vary in efficiency enough to effective double the amp power, and a 4x12 is louder than a 2x12 is louder than a 1x12, is louder than a 1x10

Placement of your speaker cab will also make a large difference, and open backed cabs are more efficient I think, and spread the sound more effectively

impmann

daveyh;198917" said:

I'm talking small to medium size clubs, even though it's a given PA is available I just want all the bases to be covered.

We played a small to medium sized club on Saturday - I was told I was too loud and that the neighbours were complaining... Er? Really? 20watts? :-)

DartmoorHedgehog

My HT-20 head is loud enough through a 2x12 with V30s.  Quite dark voiced so needs the highs turned up and an EQ pedal helps, but sheer volume is not a problem (rock/punk/gothish band, 2 guitars, bass, drums).  I don't use a lot of gain, so usually gain on 9 o'clock, volumes on around 2 o'clock for pub gigs - plenty loud enough.  I use the clean channel on a few songs as well, which is starting to have some hair on it at that volume if you hit it hard, but it's perfectly adequate I'd say.  I don't think I've got any reason for anything much more powerful for my purposes and the way I play.

ecc83

DartmoorHedgehog said:

My HT-20 head is loud enough through a 2x12 with V30s.  Quite dark voiced so needs the highs turned up and an EQ pedal helps, but sheer volume is not a problem (rock/punk/gothish band, 2 guitars, bass, drums).  I don't use a lot of gain, so usually gain on 9 o'clock, volumes on around 2 o'clock for pub gigs - plenty loud enough.  I use the clean channel on a few songs as well, which is starting to have some hair on it at that volume if you hit it hard, but it's perfectly adequate I'd say.  I don't think I've got any reason for anything much more powerful for my purposes and the way I play.

Have you got the EQ pedal in the FX loop? If not give that a do! About 6-10dB boost at around 2.5kHz is said to liven up a 20 a treat!

Dave.

Cirrus

Lots of various good answers/ experiences here.

My experience has been that 30 watts into a high sensitivity 2x12 is the bare minimum I'm happy with. That leaves me in a situation where most of the time I've got some headroom to spare so at an appropriate volume relative to my drummer I can get slightly compressed cleans though to amp-about to explode roar whether I'm miked up or need to fill a room on my own. And I prefer open backed too because the sound fills the space more fully.

For lower sensitivity speakers such as greenbacks I'd want at least a conservatively rated 50 watts.

I find that the cab is as important as the amp in sounding big and full, to the point where if I had to compromise I'd probably prefer a 15 watter through a 2x12 than a 30 watter through a 1x12.

DartmoorHedgehog

ecc83 said:

Have you got the EQ pedal in the FX loop? If not give that a do! About 6-10dB boost at around 2.5kHz is said to liven up a 20 a treat!

Dave.

Yes, in the loop. On topic though, my point was that the 20 watt amp is loud enough - voicing is a matter of taste (and I do like it!).

longjaw

I've used a Blackstar 15W Artisan combo for loads of pub gigs, big and small.  The volume has never been above 50% for any of them.  And it's quite rare for me to mike up too!

dampoldman

Comes up a lot this question in various forums...

In my experience, almost exclusively as an Orange player, I've had differing results...

TH30 through 2x12 (V30s) = easy loud enough, retains tone at volume

Dark Terror through 2x12 (V30s) = comfortably loud enough, although reaches a point where loudness doesn't increase, rather the tone 'thickens'

Dark Terror through 1960a 4x12 = easy loud enough, volume to spare

OR15 through different 2x12 (V30s) = hmmm...amazing tone at low volumes, not sure if it's because the speakers haven't worn in yet, but there is a noticeable lack of bass in the higher volume areas. 

ICBM

longjaw said:

I've used a Blackstar 15W Artisan combo for loads of pub gigs, big and small.  The volume has never been above 50% for any of them.  And it's quite rare for me to mike up too!

The thing is, you don't know whether the volume control at 50% is equivalent to 50% of the maximum volume of the amp or 99% of it. Volume controls aren't linear, and pretty much all guitar amps reach full power well before full up on the control, and then just get progressively more distorted. If I had to guess I would say 50% on the control is far more likely to be very close to full power than half.

Not that it matters if you can get enough volume of course! (And that is a very loud 15W amp.) Just that this question often comes up in the context of things like "is it safe to use a 25W speaker with a 50W amp if I keep the volume control below halfway?" - to which the answer is no.

koneguitarist

I have used most sized amps on stage from 5 w valve amps to 100w+ Never had a problem with volume, small amps like a Princeton you can put on a chair beside you gives you all the range you need, but mic'd up so you can spread the sound on stage through monitors, otherwise guys on other side of drummer don't hear you very well.

To me it's fairly obvious you use right amp for circumstances, ie big stage and rig possibly open air, that's when a small amp comes into it's own, as it's got to go through the PA. That way sound engineer has total control of what comes off stage. Small pub gig back line and a vocal PA then turn it up in line with drums for volume, but make sure you check balance off stage.

Anything else is really more for show than what you actually need.

ICBM

koneguitarist said:

I have used most sized amps on stage from 5 w valve amps to 100w+ Never had a problem with volume, small amps like a Princeton you can put on a chair beside you gives you all the range you need, but mic'd up so you can spread the sound on stage through monitors, otherwise guys on other side of drummer don't hear you very well.

To me it's fairly obvious you use right amp for circumstances, ie big stage and rig possibly open air, that's when a small amp comes into it's own, as it's got to go through the PA. That way sound engineer has total control of what comes off stage. Small pub gig back line and a vocal PA then turn it up in line with drums for volume, but make sure you check balance off stage.

Anything else is really more for show than what you actually need.

More for tone .

I can never get that big sound I like with a small amp, even mic'ed. It's not the volume, it's something to do with the combination of the tone and the feel - you can put all the bass you like on at the desk and it still doesn't sound like a big amp. I even found that with a 50W 1x12" once - on a big stage, it still sounded a bit boxy even through the PA.

I don't always want that big sound - it depends on the band and the context - but when I do, none of the small amps I've ever used really cut it. For other things, I like a small amp. But in general I prefer bigger rather than smaller, because you can usually get closer to a small-amp sound with a big amp than the other way round.

It is funny though, one of the very few times I've ever been asked to turn down was when I was using a tweed Champ, which I had up on a bar stool and cranked full… and not mic'ed .

(It was a tiny gig, of course.)

bigdawg

Danny1969 said:

5

is correct - in a rehearsal room youre in a small room and so many times everyone is just trying to overplay everyone else.

Ive played pub gigs with a tiny terror on 5watts, against a loud drummer, through a 2x12 loaded with 25w greenbacks, the amp was volume was about 3/4 way round, no one had a problem hearing anyone.

ecc83

ICBM said:

longjaw said:

I've used a Blackstar 15W Artisan combo for loads of pub gigs, big and small.  The volume has never been above 50% for any of them.  And it's quite rare for me to mike up too!

The thing is, you don't know whether the volume control at 50% is equivalent to 50% of the maximum volume of the amp or 99% of it. Volume controls aren't linear, and pretty much all guitar amps reach full power well before full up on the control, and then just get progressively more distorted. If I had to guess I would say 50% on the control is far more likely to be very close to full power than half.

Not that it matters if you can get enough volume of course! (And that is a very loud 15W amp.) Just that this question often comes up in the context of things like "is it safe to use a 25W speaker with a 50W amp if I keep the volume control below halfway?" - to which the answer is no.

The A15 is moot to my first post. That comes under the heading "Conservatively rated expensive amplifier"! They are not monsters but will kick out about 20 cleanish watts and all B's amps are rated for 230volts mains in.

BTW. There are a few 15's kicking about that came loaded with V30s (pour le continent) . They kick even more A but many prefer the Greenback. 

I would rate the A15 as about the minimum GP pub combo. The A30 with 2xV30 will do almost anywhere but it IS pricey and  'king heavy!

Note. Both amps have a 1/3rd-ish power switch. 

Dave.