What is being said on hi-fi forums [on the subject of blind testing and other unrelated matters]

Rocker

Just a snip of what is being said on other hi-fi forums.  I know "Ivor" and "Simon", both are genuine guys who listen to the music and not the system.

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IVOR WROTE:

“Balance would be good!

my own view is that blind tastings are great fun (particularly when wine related) but they are not proof of anything. If I don't hear a difference in cables during a blind test does that mean I didn't hear a difference when sitting in my room listening "normally". I don't think it does... so while it might be interesting to do I don't believe the results are anything more than a talking point. Hopefully civilised.

As a budding audiophile I didn't expect cables to make a difference but they clearly did... do I need to carry out a semi scientific experiment in order to make sense of that? I don't feel I do. 
I've heard computer audio and frankly I'd prefer if it didn't sound so bloody good but it does. If we are victims of preconception or bias then why did I like it so much? There's no denying the "bits is bits" brigade are way off on this one... and have been ever since the first CD players were discussed. 
PS I'm still perfectly happy with CD and vinyl myself. For now.”

http://blog.spikescellar.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Blind-Tasting.jpeg

SIMON WROTE:

“I don't really disagree with any of that on the face of it, Ivor. You know my feelings on this stuff: if you're enjoying what you're up to then it's the most ridiculous thing in the world to get het up over some keyboard warrior telling you you're wrong. This is, after all, meant to be fun, so find the fun where you can.

That said, there is a good question lurking underneath the objectivist posturing and it's a very simple one: if you have limited means (as most of us do) then where should you spend your money? And by that I mean, if you discover that you can't tell the difference between 2 cables for example when you don't know which one is attached, then is it really worth spending your money on differences you perceive in other methods? If a "night and day difference" collapses when you don't know what's playing, would you really want to pay good money for that difference?

Leaving aside the measurements, leaving aside the argument that things must sound the same because "science", leaving aside the arguments over even vs. odd order distortion and all that stuff, I think every so often we should all do what we say we want to do: let our ears decide. But that means REALLY letting our ears decide, without consideration of branding, shininess, audiophilia nervosa or any other thing. Basically, we should make a judgement purely on listening, without knowing what we're listening to. We shouldn't be afraid of this, we should be DELIGHTED to do this. If you can't hear a difference between 2 cables or whatever, then isn't it at least good to be aware? And if you CAN hear the difference when you don't know what's playing, then you can sleep easy in your bed.

Now of course, enjoyment of hifi is about more than just pure sonics, and everyone should do what they want, but why do we fear this testing so much? I've sat in dems where people swear blind (hah!) there's a massive difference, and I personally haven't heard it at all. The human brain is a funny thing, it's well-documented that perceptions are influenced by all kinds of things, denial of that fact is pointless.

So, in short, we shouldn't fear blind testing. We should use it as a tool to help us make good, informed decisions. As the only tool? Of course not, that would be stupid, we're here for enjoyment not lab experiments. I just don't understand railing against it at every turn. “

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ICBM

Simon is right.

monquixote

Indeed he is

EdGrip

Simon is right, and eloquently so. Ivor is wrong, but eloquently so.

ThePrettyDamned

Simon is right.  

I've been put in a position of great trust before - our old next door neighbour was an audiophile type, and asked me to let him blind test 2 cables. 

So, he gave me both cables, I set one up and played the music.  Then, I stopped it, unplugged the cable, then RE PLUGGED the same cable in.  

Sound 'A' was nicer than sound 'B'.  

Then, I said we'd do it aain, and I put the other cable in first, then the second.  He said the first one sounded better and I hadn't reversed the order.  

So, both cables sounded better than each other.  Basically, after doing the test a few times, I showed him the paper where I put the actual answers and he decided it wasn't worth shelling out.  

I don't know how true this is, but someone (possibly on this forum?) mentioned that they worked for a hi fi cable company and they had to declare they wouldn't talk or something.  

I wonder if any cables have some trickery in them that's gooped? :P

beed84

My view is that quality cables do not improve the sound, they're just a well-made cable.

It's like having a coffee table from Ikea or a bespoke one made from solid oak.  Both will do the same job, just one is made better than the other.  Nevertheless, the latter gives most people some sort of comfort.  

Ianpdq

Oh no not the old snake oil debate again

Emp_Fab

I think that cheap cables are definitely better than cables made from solid oak.

However.... this man will sell you a premium cable that will outperform everything for the bargain price of another fortnight in Mauritius...

Or... was it this man ?  I can never remember....

ICBM

Ianpdq said:

Oh no not the old snake oil debate again

Which brand do you use? I've tried several and it does seem to make a big difference.

Emp_Fab

Ah yes.... this will sort you out.....  a FIVE THOUSAND POUNDS mains cable..... with the option to have it 'burned in' for another £15 (as mains cables don't sound their best until they've been 'burned in' for at least 500 hours).  Don't forget the err....  bits of erm..wood on the cable that does something or other.

http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?lookup=1&region=UK&currency=GBP&pf_id=1564&customer_id=PAA0573047714065SPHLQQUVTSQPCIKV

PolarityMan

I love the way they say this is the best mains cable they ever made but somehow can be assured that it has improvements in "faithfulness to the source". I mean what was their previous reference point?

PolarityMan

Ha, this is total win!

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showpost.php?p=989502&postcount=21

Found it trying to work out what SawyerDiscs are.

koneguitarist

ICBM said:

Ianpdq said:

Oh no not the old snake oil debate again

Which brand do you use? I've tried several and it does seem to make a big difference.

With guitar leads or mains leads ?

ICBM

koneguitarist said:

With guitar leads or mains leads ?

All of them, of course! If it makes a difference with one type, it must with all of them. You can't say that if it makes a difference with guitar leads it doesn't with mains leads, that would make no sense. They're all wires.

You can use it on your car wiring too, you get noticeably better acceleration, top speed and fuel economy.

steamabacus

Get's rid of all sorts of bad vibrations.

boogieman

Didn't Goji do a blind test on some of Rocker's mains cables in the MR days? Seem to remember he couldn't discern any difference at all from a bog standard lead.