Missing maple filler strip

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I wanted to get some advice as to why a les paul junior would be missing a maple filler strip under the pickguard? guitar has had a refinish but has no maple filler strip? I think the guitar was a restoration project. 

Any advice would be great. 
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 8593
    Pics?
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 3131
    Is there anything else around the neck to body join to suggest that the neck may have been removed and reset?
    "It's no wonder the Pacific Ocean is blue."
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  • designerseye88designerseye88 Frets: 190
    HI @Funkfingers pic below 

    https://imgur.com/a/sKDQCvX


    I personally think its had a neck reset, the heel is very thin (although i think this is fairly common on 58 juniors) but would be keen on opinions. I actually owned this guitar a few months back but returned it as i just wasn't satisfied it was advertised correctly. I can't stop thinking about it though and miss it. It sounded awesome. their was just a few things like that filler strip that put me off. 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 31593
    Has the truss rod been replaced? Although I wouldn't put it past Gibson to have never fitted the strip in the first place...

    I doubt it matters other than as a detective story - as long as there's the proper strip over the truss rod itself, the bit from there to the end of the neck isn't structural. If the neck *hasn't* been out, then it looks like it was probably made like that since there is glue spill into the slot.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • designerseye88designerseye88 Frets: 190
    https://imgur.com/a/9z472so

    I've added some more pics gents, Any advice would be appreciated. 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 31593
    What's the red marking along the fingerboard to neck join in the upside-down pic of the neck joint? Hard to tell at that pic resolution but it looks like the fingerboard might have been off.

    If so it's a near certainty the truss rod has been replaced.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • designerseye88designerseye88 Frets: 190
    The red marking  is where there was some filler between the neck and the fingerboard, The filler i think was white so it highlights the red from the lacquer. 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 31593
    The red marking  is where there was some filler between the neck and the fingerboard, The filler i think was white so it highlights the red from the lacquer. 
    In that case the fingerboard has been off, you would not find filler like that on an original build. (Even given Gibson's QC :).)

    Or perhaps the *neck* has been replaced, salvaging the original fingerboard, after a bad head break. I've seen that done more than once - not least by our own @FelineGuitars, on the Judas Priest LP Custom. (Although I don't think Jonathan would leave filler down the side...)
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • designerseye88designerseye88 Frets: 190
    ICBM said:
    The red marking  is where there was some filler between the neck and the fingerboard, The filler i think was white so it highlights the red from the lacquer. 
    In that case the fingerboard has been off, you would not find filler like that on an original build. (Even given Gibson's QC :).)

    Or perhaps the *neck* has been replaced, salvaging the original fingerboard, after a bad head break. I've seen that done more than once - not least by our own @FelineGuitars, on the Judas Priest LP Custom. (Although I don't think Jonathan would leave filler down the side...)
    I did have my suspicions about a re-neck. The headstock was also bare wood but finished in black and lacquered - there was no holly veneer or anything (you could see the wood pores in the right light) this also meant the truss rod end stuck out a little too high, so when you put the truss rod cover on it bend a bit over the top of the end of the brass part of the truss rod.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 31593
    There's no holly veneer on a Junior.

    The truss rod nut often sticks up a little high on them - if you look at the nut, there's often one face which is angled down slightly more steeply, which is the position it was set in originally when the headstock face was sanded to prepare it for the facing. So on a Junior, if it's then set in any other position it sticks up very slightly proud of the headstock.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • designerseye88designerseye88 Frets: 190
    ICBM said:
    There's no holly veneer on a Junior.

    The truss rod nut often sticks up a little high on them - if you look at the nut, there's often one face which is angled down slightly more steeply, which is the position it was set in originally when the headstock face was sanded to prepare it for the facing. So on a Junior, if it's then set in any other position it sticks up very slightly proud of the headstock.
    Ah i see, thanks for the info. So do you think its been renecked? of just re-set? Im weighing up wether to purchase it again but i just want to know much more about what has likely been done to it.  
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 31593
    designerseye88 said:

    So do you think its been renecked? of just re-set? Im weighing up wether to purchase it again but i just want to know much more about what has likely been done to it.  
    Hard to tell for sure. Higher-resolution photos might make it clearer.

    My guess would be that the evidence of a non-standard neck construction (even if Gibson occasionally did odd things), the neck probably having been out, the heel not looking quite right, the fingerboard having been off the neck, and a full refinish, would make it quite likely that it has been re-necked.

    If the price reflects all that (and the replaced electrics, probably bridge, etc), and it's a great guitar, then fair enough.

    How much is it?
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • designerseye88designerseye88 Frets: 190
    Yeah i agree, Its going for £2400 which seems a fair price, It's just maybe it's best to hold out, save a bit more and wait for something else. 
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  • miserneilmiserneil Frets: 4950
    @designerseye88 Where did this come from/is it advertised? If it's the guitar i'm thinking of, it came from a known dealer originally as 'all original' then was advertised on here for sale, then sent back to the dealer as it was deemed not as advertised originally then sold on eBay then is available privately again....I think I might have some info on it...
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  • miserneilmiserneil Frets: 4950
    edited June 3
    For what it's worth, here's the neck pocket of a 100% ALL ORIGINAL '59 Junior I had for a while and is very similar to a few others I have handled:



    You see how the guitar in question doesn't have the router 'bite' (this circle, often mistaken as a clamp mark, is from an overhead router that took down the heel flush with the body. You can see where it's cut into the body around the entire neck pocket. All the DC's where done like this), the messy edges or the gap between the pocket and the neck. The OP guitar also has red filler/lacquer in the joints. IMO it's far too tidy for a Gibson job. Bare in mind these guitars were literally thrown together at the time, they were doing about 4500 a year.

    The other red flag is the light pore filler. IMO (and if it's the same guitar I was asked about originally) it's a re-neck and a refin.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 31593
    Yeah i agree, Its going for £2400 which seems a fair price, It's just maybe it's best to hold out, save a bit more and wait for something else. 
    Sounds at least £400 too high to me, given the questionably/likely replaced neck. For 'only' about a grand more you could get a definitely original one, albeit probably not in the best condition and/or refinished or with some parts changed. A 100% straight one is still no more than about £4K.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • designerseye88designerseye88 Frets: 190
    ICBM said:
    Yeah i agree, Its going for £2400 which seems a fair price, It's just maybe it's best to hold out, save a bit more and wait for something else. 
    Sounds at least £400 too high to me, given the questionably/likely replaced neck. For 'only' about a grand more you could get a definitely original one, albeit probably not in the best condition and/or refinished or with some parts changed. A 100% straight one is still no more than about £4K.
    Yeah fair point, I do have a nice little LP special restoration project at the moment so maybe I'll just focus on that and then look at getting one again in the near future. Like you said i would rather pay more for one knowing it is all original ( the woods anyways!) 
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