Eating crap days

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  • SporkySporky Frets: 13208
    edited June 10
    Emp_Fab said:
    I admire your confidence that you can blithely dismiss as untrue the evidence presented by a nutritionist and a doctor in a TV programme you haven’t even watched.

    Well done.
    I posted verifiable facts in response to a clearly inaccurate claim. 

    Perhaps you would like to point out where I said anything untrue.
    Be your own evil twin. 
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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 9207
    Emp_Fab said:
    I admire your confidence that you can blithely dismiss as untrue the evidence presented by a nutritionist and a doctor in a TV programme you haven’t even watched.

    Well done.
    Aren't nutritionists the ones with no proper qualifications who don't necessarily know what they're talking about?
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  • skunkwerxskunkwerx Frets: 1248
    My nutritionist at Guys & St Thomas was pretty clued up on what I needed, Fodmap’s, Coeliac etc. 
    The only easy day, was yesterday...
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  • GrunfeldGrunfeld Frets: 2632
    edited June 10

    Aren't nutritionists the ones with no proper qualifications who don't necessarily know what they're talking about?
    Nope, [Yes, and] that's [also] naturopaths
    Nutritionists are kosher as in legit.
    EDIT:  bugger me, not necessarily so it seems.  Not a protected title.
    It's Dieticians who've got protected title and duh, now I think about it those are the ones you see in hospitals, for example.


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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 13046
    edited June 10
    Emp_Fab said:
    I admire your confidence that you can blithely dismiss as untrue the evidence presented by a nutritionist and a doctor in a TV programme you haven’t even watched.

    Well done.

    I admire your confidence challenging his knowledge based on the opinion of a supposed expert. I'm sure you've worked in an environment with supposedly qualified people, you must have realised a large proportion of them have no idea what they are doing. 
    I assume you must also apply that logic when you’re heading down to theatre for brain surgery.  After all, the surgeon is one of these ‘supposedly qualified’ types...  You’d be better off letting Sporky have a go with a chisel.  ...or has that already happened ?
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 13208
    So, Emp - what part of what I posted are you disputing, or was it just a personal attack? 
    Be your own evil twin. 
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  • olafgartenolafgarten Frets: 1359
    Emp_Fab said:
    Emp_Fab said:
    I admire your confidence that you can blithely dismiss as untrue the evidence presented by a nutritionist and a doctor in a TV programme you haven’t even watched.

    Well done.

    I admire your confidence challenging his knowledge based on the opinion of a supposed expert. I'm sure you've worked in an environment with supposedly qualified people, you must have realised a large proportion of them have no idea what they are doing. 
    I assume you must also apply that logic when you’re heading down to theatre for brain surgery.  After all, the surgeon is one of these ‘supposedly qualified’ types...  You’d be better off letting Sporky have a go with a chisel.  ...or has that already happened ?

    No, it's just that as Grunfield said, the Nutritionist title means nothing, anyone can call themselves a nutritionist without qualifications. 
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  • cpcompanycpcompany Frets: 103
    Love sweet and sour pork when I’ve got a hangover . Only seems nice when I’ve been on the lash the day before though. Doubt it would be any good sober.

    My lass is heavily pregnant and it would be rude of me not to help her with the large bars of fruit and nut she buys everyday 
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  • skunkwerxskunkwerx Frets: 1248
    skunkwerx said:
    My nutritionist at Guys & St Thomas was pretty clued up on what I needed, Fodmap’s, Coeliac etc. 
    Edited... shes a dietician not a nutritionalist. Lols. Im not qualified here...
    The only easy day, was yesterday...
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 13208
    So...  Emp...

    What part of my post are you disputing? 

    Or was it just a cheap personal dig? 
    Be your own evil twin. 
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  • 57Deluxe57Deluxe Frets: 5649
    <Vintage BOSS Upgrades>
    __________________________________
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 13208
    So what part of what I posted is untrue? 
    Be your own evil twin. 
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 13208
    Right. Watched it. Utter bollocks intended to shock the uneducated.

    The claim I responded to was "effect on the body is same as up to 12 teaspoons of sugar". That is not the claim made in the programme clip posted, for starters; the programme says a bagel has the equivalent of 11 cubes of sugar.

    This is clearly nonsense; you can easily look up the sugar content of a bagel. The New York Bagel Co ones (I think they're a reasonable example to take) have 5g of sugar, which is about 1.8 sugar cubes. The programme claims 11. Presumably they're using "equivalent to" to mean "a tenth of"? Or maybe they're saying that all carbohydrates are sugar? Well, that's not true. Or that they all have the same effect on blood sugar maybe? Nope. That's not true either. Any way you look at it their sums are off (a plain bagel has 42g of carbohydrate, which is the same weight as 14 sugar cubes, but only 5g is actually sugar). So my statement that the programme was poorly researched stands proven.

    Interestingly they also claim that the bagel has more "equivalent sugar" than the muffin. A quick search reveals that a Tesco double chocolate muffin (again, I think that's probably reasonable representative of the type) has 50g of carbohydrates, of which 23g are sugars. So, again, what do they mean by "equivalent"? Something with more overall carbs and more overall sugar has less "equivalent" sugar? Fucking bollocks. Utter fucking bollocks.

    So the claim that the "effect on the body is same as up to 12 teaspoons of sugar" is both untrue and not backed up by the clip, and the clip itself is not internally self-consistent.

    If anyone thinks that 12 teaspoons of sugar contains measurable protein or dietary fibre, they are unfit to post about nutrition - but a bagel provably contains both.

    Still waiting for you to point out where I was wrong, @Emp_Fab - if you're going to make a snide little dig like that you'd better be able to back it up, or have the basic decency to apologise when it's demonstrated that you're wrong.

    So, Emp... what's it to be?
    Be your own evil twin. 
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  • PC_DavePC_Dave Frets: 1330
    *runs and grabs sugar free popcorn for this one*
    This week's procrastination forum might be moved to sometime next week.
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  • EricTheWearyEricTheWeary Frets: 6991
    PC_Dave said:
    *runs and grabs sugar free popcorn for this one*
    How many carbs in that popcorn though? 
    Dum dum dum, dum dum de dum, dum dum dum, dum dummmm.
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  • PC_DavePC_Dave Frets: 1330
    PC_Dave said:
    *runs and grabs sugar free popcorn for this one*
    How many carbs in that popcorn though? 
    I missed the TV programme so I’ve no idea... as much as an African Elephant?
    This week's procrastination forum might be moved to sometime next week.
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  • Philly_QPhilly_Q Frets: 4372
    PC_Dave said:
    PC_Dave said:
    *runs and grabs sugar free popcorn for this one*
    How many carbs in that popcorn though? 
    I missed the TV programme so I’ve no idea... as much as an African Elephant?
    Actually a lot more than an African elephant.  Unless you include the contents of his stomach...
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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 9207
    skunkwerx said:
    skunkwerx said:
    My nutritionist at Guys & St Thomas was pretty clued up on what I needed, Fodmap’s, Coeliac etc. 
    Edited... shes a dietician not a nutritionalist. Lols. Im not qualified here...
    :D 
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  • FuengiFuengi Frets: 562
    Bagels - although I have no particular wish to jump into this discussion  :o I recently listened to a nutrition podcast where they said bagels were about the worst thing you can eat. 

    My understanding is that carbohydrates, if it unused as fuel, are converted to glycogen in the body exactly as sugar is. 
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  • boogiemanboogieman Frets: 4969
    Emp_Fab said:
    Gall bladder, not stomach.  I'm waiting on a second ultrasound scan and have an outpatient appt on the 11th July.  I don't go off the rails often...  Just today I had this craving for junk.  I'll be good tomorrow...
    Pork pies still won’t do your gall bladder any favours mate, high fat content. Glad to hear you don’t cane it very often.  ;)
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  • EricTheWearyEricTheWeary Frets: 6991
    Fuengi said:
    Bagels - although I have no particular wish to jump into this discussion  :o I recently listened to a nutrition podcast where they said bagels were about the worst thing you can eat. 

    My understanding is that carbohydrates, if it unused as fuel, are converted to glycogen in the body exactly as sugar is. 
    Bagels are the work of the devil, I'm sticking to donuts to start the day.

    I think ( I'm very non scientific on this stuff) all carbs are broken down by the body into blood sugar and the complexity of the carb determines how quickly that is. So, for example, white bread is effectively very similar to eating sugar in terms of how the body uses the energy  whereas wholemeal bread takes longer to break down and therefore it's slower energy release. From the bit I saw of the TV programme referenced it roughly divided carbs into white, beige and brown. The darker a carb the better it is for you ( I don't think chocolate muffins count though). There are also some odd anomalies like white bread being toasted or white pasta being reheated being more complex than in their original form. A baked potato is high in the glycemic index ( so your body turns into sugar type energy very quickly) but has other health benefits. 
    Hence all the equivalency stuff, the accuracy of which I have no idea.

    I am fat and unfit so clearly have crap food days. What I find with very crap food days ( say a takeaway pizza) is that I get a kind of hangover - the next day I feel rough, maybe shakey and craving food. Obviously there's a potential vicious cycle there. 
    Dum dum dum, dum dum de dum, dum dum dum, dum dummmm.
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  • grungebobgrungebob Frets: 1081
    yeah I dont get how they are coming up with the equivalency formulas

    Carbohydrates ( in all forms) are not stored as body fat as efficiently as dietary fats are, they play an essential role in muscle growth but also overall body functions.  Monosaccharides ( simple carbs) to Polsaccharides ( complex carbs) are all either metabolised into glucose or are left as indigested serving as dietary fibre.

    Id argue the simple sugars ( that require little to none digestion/ conversion) in a muffin to be worse for you than those in  a bagel.

    theres a tonne of abstract surfing going on when people talk about the research of low carb diets etc , the problem with the abstracts most people quote is that they fail to mention that test subjects on the low carb test diets all contained significantly more protein that those on the low fat diets they are compairing, its a mindfield out there of half truths and agendas!
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 13208
    edited June 11
    Fuengi said:
    Bagels - although I have no particular wish to jump into this discussion  o I recently listened to a nutrition podcast where they said bagels were about the worst thing you can eat. 

    I think that's a bit of an overstatement, but I'd agree that they're similar in composition to white bread or pasta, so one's consumption of then should be sensible/limited. 

    I note that @Emp_Fab hasn't yet summoned up the basic good manners to admit that he was wrong (as usual).

    What's up, Emp? I'm sure we'd all have more respect for you if you had the integrity to admit when you've said something stupid. Again. 
    Be your own evil twin. 
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  • jonnyburgojonnyburgo Frets: 5960
    Emp will answer the question after his pie, which he says is the best pie he’s eaten all day.
    "OUR TOSSPOT"
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  • pintspillerpintspiller Frets: 513
    I eat shit every day
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  • LestratcasterLestratcaster Frets: 341
    Normally eat quite well, stick to chicken and fish most days and loads of fruit n veg, about 7-8 a day. 3 for breakfast (banana, strawberry and kiwi), grapes at lunch, then a green (cucumber/lettuce, etc) evening meal and an apple and orange. No fizzy drinks or biscuits in my diet either, and try to stay away from processed stuff. Can be impartial to a bag of crisps every now and then, and some junk food, unavoidable if on the road with bands. How the hell do these touring bands eat healthy?
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 13046
    Sporky said:
    Right. Watched it. Utter bollocks intended to shock the uneducated.

    <bizarre frothy-mouthed rant exhibiting jaw dropping arrogance>

    So, Emp... what's it to be?
    I was merely giving you enough time to hoist yourself from your own petard, and you haven’t failed me.

    I was only suggesting that you may not be the voice of authority on a programme about nutrition.  The bottom line is that either you are right - a man who isn’t a dietician or a doctor, but is a tech bod in the AV world - slagging off the claims made by a dietician and a doctor in the programme, or they are right.

    The dietician is Alison Barnes;

    Diabetes Specialist Dietitian

    Newcastle University/Newcastle Hospitals NHS Trust

    Alison Barnes is a Registered Dietitian with a particular interest in diabetes and weight management. She has a first class undergraduate degree in Human Nutrition from Northumbria University and a Postgraduate Diploma in Dietetics from Leeds Metropolitan University. She currently works as a Research Associate with Professor Roy Taylor at Newcastle University on the Diabetes UK-funded DiRECT clinical trial, using low calorie liquid diets to achieve weight loss and diabetes remission in a primary care setting. Alison has an honorary contract as a diabetes dietitian with Newcastle Hospitals NHS Trust and has previously worked as an NHS specialist diabetes dietitian for Northumbria Healthcare NHS Trust (2009-2014), providing regular clinics in primary care and specialist clinics and diabetes group education in secondary care. She has also worked on group weight management programmes for both adults and families in community settings. Alison was  selected as one of the Diabetes UK Clinical Champions for 2016-18 and is working on a project to produce a dietary decision aid for type 2 diabetes in order to facilitate more effective discussions about diet between healthcare professionals and people living with diabetes.


    The doctor is Dr Xand van Tulleken, a doctor with a medical degree from Oxford University and a Fullbright Scholar with a Masters In Public Health from Harvard University.  He is the Helen Hamlyn Senior Fellow at Fordham University's Institute of International Humanitarian Affairs.  He also has a diploma in Tropical Medicine, International Humanitarian Assistance.  As well as being a contributing editor to the Oxford Handbook of Humanitarian Medicine, he also works on philanthropic projects alongside the World Health Organisation.

    Now, forgive me for challenging your medical knowledge, but I’ll give a bit more credence to the clinical opinions of these two than a man who installs AV gear for a living.
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  • PC_DavePC_Dave Frets: 1330
    Well, I’m a bit disappointed I’ve run out of popcorn, but I’m pleased we’re back on. 
    This week's procrastination forum might be moved to sometime next week.
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 13208
    Emp_Fab said:

    I was only suggesting that you may not be the voice of authority on a programme about nutrition.  The bottom line is that either you are right - [childish ad-hominem removed] - slagging off the claims made by a dietician and a doctor in the programme, or they are 
    Indeed. So show me where what I posted is incorrect. 

    And hold off on the personal attacks and incorrect descriptions of what I do for a living, both make you look silly.

    So far all you've posted is ad-hominem and arguments from authority. I, on the other hand, have posted verifiable facts. Point out where I was wrong, if you can - you can check all the numbers very easily. 
    Be your own evil twin. 
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  • JohnnyPlectrumJohnnyPlectrum Frets: 219
    As usual, both views are sort of correct.
    My lunchtime wholemeal bagel has 38.7g of carbohydrate @ 4 calories per gram, which is 155 calories which is equivalent to 13 sugar cubes (that well known unit of measurement)
    However, the consumption of my bagel and the effect it has on my body is nothing like consuming 13 sugar cubes.
    Sometimes when over-simplifying things for a broad audience you leave yourself open to criticism? 
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