School trip dress code...wtf?!

RaymondLin

Heartfeltdawn said:

RaymondLin said:

I don't see what the problem is.  All it is saying is don't dress like a slut and a football hooligan.  Like it or not, we don't have the best reputation when it comes to being football fans.

And that reputation is unfair when you look at other European football leagues. Way worse than us. 

Unfair or not, it is what it is.

Legionreturns said:

Personally, I don't agree with school uniform. A simple hoody or jumper, yes, fine, but the blazers, ties and skirts within 4cm of the knee either way and shiny (but not patent) leather black shoes crap really gets my goat. 

If my daughters school spent half as much energy worrying about what's in their heads instead of on their feet they'd have a chance at understanding kids. There are many problems with staff, caused mainly by a dinosaur leadership team that still think its the 1930s. 

Your statement is a massive contradiction.

On one hand you want your daughter to concentrate more on their head instead of what's on their feet.  At the same time you disagree with school uniforms.  By definition, the uniform standardise the dress code so every kid is on equal footing dress code wise and they don't have to think about whats on their feet.  They don't need to spend hours every morning thinking "what am I going to wear to school today".  "when did I last wear this skirt", "are these trainers to latest fashion". etc.  

axisus

Legionreturns said:

caused mainly by a dinosaur leadership team that still think its the 1930s. 

I think you're a few hundred million years out with your analogy ....

Phil_aka_Pip

@BloodEagle I also went to a school with a strict uniform policy. It was SHIT. It was a far worse crime to have the wrong colour shirt or no tie than it was to nick someone else's slide rule.

Standardisation is no argument whatsoever. Our rules were stupidly strict yet it was always obvious which kids' parents had money and which kids' parents didn't.

usedtobe

I’d say the guidelines are fair enough. Sensible, even. Not allowing girls to wear trousers is, however, shitty!

Legionreturns

RaymondLin said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

RaymondLin said:

I don't see what the problem is.  All it is saying is don't dress like a slut and a football hooligan.  Like it or not, we don't have the best reputation when it comes to being football fans.

And that reputation is unfair when you look at other European football leagues. Way worse than us. 

Unfair or not, it is what it is.

Legionreturns said:

Personally, I don't agree with school uniform. A simple hoody or jumper, yes, fine, but the blazers, ties and skirts within 4cm of the knee either way and shiny (but not patent) leather black shoes crap really gets my goat. 

If my daughters school spent half as much energy worrying about what's in their heads instead of on their feet they'd have a chance at understanding kids. There are many problems with staff, caused mainly by a dinosaur leadership team that still think its the 1930s. 

Your statement is a massive contradiction.

On one hand you want your daughter to concentrate more on their head instead of what's on their feet.  At the same time you disagree with school uniforms.  By definition, the uniform standardise the dress code so every kid is on equal footing dress code wise and they don't have to think about whats on their feet.  They don't need to spend hours every morning thinking "what am I going to wear to school today".  "when did I last wear this skirt", "are these trainers to latest fashion". etc.  

No. I said a hoody or jumper is ok. My school "uniform" is a school hoody, black joggers or trackies and black trainers. The kids are comfortable, and what they wear is suitable for any in school activity. 

How many cotton shirts I've binned because of paint/ glue / whatever stains I can't even fathom. 

My daughter is not an airhead. She dresses up according to what she's doing. Sending kids home to change their shoes because they're the "wrong" type of leather finish (they've done this many times!) means missing lessons. Ridiculous.

Dominic

I think School children should be dressed and looked like Schoolchildren ..they are representing the school when out in public
When I was at school it was an immediate detention for not wearing your cap properly !
mind you, we had to wear grey flannel shorts until we were 13 !

ToneControl

thumpingrug said:

We regressed to Victorian times around 2010,  have you not seen the rise in people sleeping rough and the out of nowhere need for food banks to prevent people from starving.  I think the schools approach is over the top and might even be sexist, but that 2018 for you.

it's not nice to see food banks and rough sleepers, but there is no comparison with the 19th century, in which life for the poor in the UK was pretty similar to living in the third world at present

ToneControl

Ironically, my daughters' school uniform includes what invariable ends up as a very short skirt, then bizarrely a logo'd sweatshirt that can never be taken off.

Maybe it's a trick to influence their adult dress code, AFAIK none of the kids wear short skirts after school (much)

Nitefly

As far as travel abroad is concerned, it's simple respect for other peoples' traditions and/or beliefs.

In Greece and other southern European countries, if you went into e.g. a church or monastery you would be expected NOT to wear shorts (men) or be bare-shouldered/bare-legged (women).

KrisGee

"Students should dress appropriately for a school trip. We are visiting historic places of interest so short or low cut items for the girls are not suitable and boys should not wear any football shirts. T shirts with inappropriate images or slogans on them should also not be worn."

Honestly can't see anything wrong with that. I'm a parent myself and this seems like a very reasonable dress code. You wouldn't want your daughter to attract too much attention from adult men and your son (if you had one) to get beaten up for wearing a wrong football club tshirt. 
Mind it's a school trip and teachers are responsible for the kids so the less possible trouble the better.

vale

it sounds strict but i think it's more a case of the school covering itself legally, which is probably prudent because whenever anyone has a bad time these days (i'm saying 'these days' & i'm only in my 30s!) the immediate response seems to be blame someone & call the lawyers. accepting any level of personal responsiblility for one's own actions seems to be a very outdated concept.
so this is a preemptive 'we told you so' in an attempt to short circuit that. like signs on railings that say 'please don't put your head through these railings'.

in this context, Amsterdam is famous/infamous/notorious for having a liberal attitude towards many things people in other countries get uptight about (including Brits). sex is one, drugs another. as someone above said, it's a case of everything being compartmentalised; some things get a light liberal touch, others a conservative touch. but sex & drugs are generally in the liberal box.

the netherlands used to have a much lower age of consent (before prosecutions for age diffrences would begin) compared to the UK. the baseline got raised to 16 a decade or so ago, but there's still that liberalism in the culture towards younger people doing what they want, if & when they want. they also have legalised prostitution in many parts of town. probably (teens will be teens) those parts of town your teens will be most attracted to. teens drink & drug too.

so without going into polaroid detail, the school has covered itself by making its position clear.

as for the football shirts, english fans don't have the rosiest of reputations abroad (let's be frank). & there's some big football thing going on somewhere over the next few weeks, as far as i can tell.
if you are in a foreign country and the home team there gets kicked out of a big contest by your home team, & hooligans on their side are unhappy & drunk & you are wearing the wrong shirt? or vice versa with the home & away teams. he could also get swept up by police if any hooligans kick off. (fans & hooligans different species).

i'm all for people 'doing what they want'. passionately so. so i can relate to the OPs initial recoil at the schools terms. but in a litigious age, agencies are obliged to cover their asses (legally & financially) so that if & when people who are 'doing what they want' f*ck up, they can't dodge personal responsibility for their own f*ck ups. they have to own them.

you know your kids will listen to you (even if they pretend not to) & ignore anything the school says as a matter of course. so maybe just talk to them before they go about the context these terms are trying to address. you are a wise owl & (deep down) they are probably wise owlets.

Chalky

Legionreturns said:

Personally, I don't agree with school uniform. A simple hoody or jumper, yes, fine, but the blazers, ties and skirts within 4cm of the knee either way and shiny (but not patent) leather black shoes crap really gets my goat. 

If my daughters school spent half as much energy worrying about what's in their heads instead of on their feet they'd have a chance at understanding kids. There are many problems with staff, caused mainly by a dinosaur leadership team that still think its the 1930s. 

On the Migration Crisis thread you lecture people on talking to Mani to really understand the situation. Perhaps you should similarly talk to head teachers so they can teach you about the value of school uniforms? Clearly you have no understanding of it.

The old saying "We give away our best advice" eh? 

Legionreturns

Chalky said:

Legionreturns said:

Personally, I don't agree with school uniform. A simple hoody or jumper, yes, fine, but the blazers, ties and skirts within 4cm of the knee either way and shiny (but not patent) leather black shoes crap really gets my goat. 

If my daughters school spent half as much energy worrying about what's in their heads instead of on their feet they'd have a chance at understanding kids. There are many problems with staff, caused mainly by a dinosaur leadership team that still think its the 1930s. 

On the Migration Crisis thread you lecture people on talking to Mani to really understand the situation. Perhaps you should similarly talk to head teachers so they can teach you about the value of school uniforms? Clearly you have no understanding of it.

The old saying "We give away our best advice" eh? 

Err... I'm a teacher who has worked with many different head teachers. As I said, the school I work at has got it right. It works, and everyone's happy including parents. 

Clarky

EricTheWeary said:

My impression ( based on one holiday to the Netherlands, so this might not be scientific) is that the Dutch are as conservative as they are liberal. Everything in it's place: the Abraxas coffee shop and Anne Frank’s house are different places even if you can walk from one to the other in five minutes. Assuming your daughter is going to see the Van Gogh museum rather than the Banana Bar I’m siding with the school on this one. 

could be worse...
the daughters could end up getting jobs in the Banana Bar.. lol..

Brize

Legionreturns said:

My school "uniform" is a school hoody, black joggers or trackies and black trainers.

That sounds horrendous.

Legionreturns

Brize said:

Legionreturns said:

My school "uniform" is a school hoody, black joggers or trackies and black trainers.

That sounds horrendous.

Why? 

Brize

Legionreturns said:

Brize said:

Legionreturns said:

My school "uniform" is a school hoody, black joggers or trackies and black trainers.

That sounds horrendous.

Why? 

The image that it conjures in my mind is so severe, with all of the black, and it just sounds positively grim and utilitarian.

How can any child wearing a hoodie, joggers and trainers have any pride in their appearance?

mudslide73

Hopefully it's a really rewarding trip and everyone gets home safely. I know I've banged on about teachers in the past but taking 60 odd kids to Amsterdam doesn't even bear thinking about. Blimey no. 

Legionreturns

Brize said:

Legionreturns said:

Brize said:

Legionreturns said:

My school "uniform" is a school hoody, black joggers or trackies and black trainers.

That sounds horrendous.

Why? 

The image that it conjures in my mind is so severe, with all of the black, and it just sounds positively grim and utilitarian.

How can any child wearing a hoodie, joggers and trainers have any pride in their appearance?

The hoody is bright blue with a school badge on it, which they take great pride in. They can take part in any activity, comfortably, without worrying about messing up their "good" uniform. 

They look smart but practical. Perfect in my view as there are no barriers to joining in with everything. 

BloodEagle

Black tracksuit bottoms and trainers is part of a uniform? Thats mental