WORLD CUP 2018

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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 3497
    Last night England seemed to revert to type in that they hit the ball long and stopped playing the ball out from the back. I think our early goal made us look for long ball over top quick counterattack far too often. Whereas, Croatia played like the experienced top players they are, worked their way into the game and progressively dominated the game.
    The end result is that we've given France a weary and battered team to destroy in the final.


    Very true.  With Sterling's pace advantage over the Croatia defenders I can see why they were trying to take advantage of it. There may have been some element of a deliberate strategy there.

    What you need to do though, is establish that threat with the odd long ball so the defenders sit deep.  You can then take advantage of the space that should make in front of them, but we just didn't mix it up at all.

    I'm not sure there was the movement for us to play it out from the back either.  Young wasn't getting forwards enough.  Rose should have been on half an hour earlier (if not from the start).  I didn't see much of Alli, Lingard, or Henderson moving in front of the defense to give the option of a short pass either.

    We didn't play well in the second half.  That team has it in them to play better, but I think a lot of it was inexperience in the big situations.  How many of our players are even the key playmakers at their clubs?  A lot of the time it's some expensive foreigner who the team is built around.  If our players aren't used to controlling a game at club level, it won't come easily at international level.  They will be better for this experience though.

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  • menamestommenamestom Frets: 2184
    p90fool said:


    This is in no way a criticism, but when England progress to a semi- or a final these are FREAK EVENTS, not England's rightful and God-given place in the world. England are, and always have been footballing minnows, and a realistic and honest utilisation of the assets at their disposal has got them a very long way this year. 

    I think the fans can be more positive about the future than dismissing the tournament as a freak event.  The team is young and showed a lot of spirit and had many qualities we've not had for a while.  Expectations from some quarters go way overboard but after the best tournament for 28 years, a young English manager and a good setup to build on, the team is looking good. 

    Also note, England are world champions at U17 and U21, which is not that bad a place to be for such minnows ;) 

    As for the general performance, we need a world class creative midfielder to progress, all round performance, organisation, set pieces were all great, but simply not enough chances created to go all the way.  The tournament flattered the team a bit, getting the easier draw, but still, we look so much better than 2016.  Also with 2 age groups of world champions feeding into the team over the coming years, a Premier league winter break on the cards, it all looks good.
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  • BigLicks67BigLicks67 Frets: 445
    crunchman said:
    Last night England seemed to revert to type in that they hit the ball long and stopped playing the ball out from the back. I think our early goal made us look for long ball over top quick counterattack far too often. Whereas, Croatia played like the experienced top players they are, worked their way into the game and progressively dominated the game.
    The end result is that we've given France a weary and battered team to destroy in the final.


    Very true.  With Sterling's pace advantage over the Croatia defenders I can see why they were trying to take advantage of it. There may have been some element of a deliberate strategy there.

    What you need to do though, is establish that threat with the odd long ball so the defenders sit deep.  You can then take advantage of the space that should make in front of them, but we just didn't mix it up at all.

    I'm not sure there was the movement for us to play it out from the back either.  Young wasn't getting forwards enough.  Rose should have been on half an hour earlier (if not from the start).  I didn't see much of Alli, Lingard, or Henderson moving in front of the defense to give the option of a short pass either.

    We didn't play well in the second half.  That team has it in them to play better, but I think a lot of it was inexperience in the big situations.  How many of our players are even the key playmakers at their clubs?  A lot of the time it's some expensive foreigner who the team is built around.  If our players aren't used to controlling a game at club level, it won't come easily at international level.  They will be better for this experience though.

    Yep, once Rose came on both he and Trippier moved further forward and we started to string some passes together. I think Alli was probably knackered from having to mark two men at once for most of the game.
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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 7968
    @menamestom I totally agree, it's still a foundation on which to build, even if it technically is punching above their weight. I didn't mean it was a fluke, because they certainly earned their place in the semi-final, just that expectations are often crazy given England's natural place in the world of football.  

    Sometimes I think the worst thing they ever did was win it all those years ago. If they never had English football fans would enjoy the journey every time far more, without all that "Coming Home" bollocks. 

    Anyway, time to go and flip another page over on my free gift Viz 'Years of Hurt' calender. ;)

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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 15767
    An interesting point made by the German press is how many quality players at the World Cup play in the UK Premiership. They say that's part of the reason for our success.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • menamestommenamestom Frets: 2184
    p90fool said:
    @menamestom I totally agree, it's still a foundation on which to build, even if it technically is punching above their weight. I didn't mean it was a fluke, because they certainly earned their place in the semi-final, just that expectations are often crazy given England's natural place in the world of football.  

    Sometimes I think the worst thing they ever did was win it all those years ago. If they never had English football fans would enjoy the journey every time far more, without all that "Coming Home" bollocks. 

    Anyway, time to go and flip another page over on my free gift Viz 'Years of Hurt' calender. ;)


    Yeah I agree then, the expectations and media go way over the top.  We played better than last time and have some good foundations to improve, nothing more, nothing less.   Despite being in the last 4 we're still a long way behind the big footballing nations (including some who weren't there).   It may never 'come home', but if we can be the best we can be, you can't ask more than that.

    I think everybody is ready is ready for a break with the coming home shite.
    The Irony now is though, you can't blame the media anymore, it used to be the red top papers whipping it up, now it's mainly the fans on social media....
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  • jonevejoneve Frets: 814
    p90fool said:
    @menamestom I totally agree, it's still a foundation on which to build, even if it technically is punching above their weight. I didn't mean it was a fluke, because they certainly earned their place in the semi-final, just that expectations are often crazy given England's natural place in the world of football.  

    Sometimes I think the worst thing they ever did was win it all those years ago. If they never had English football fans would enjoy the journey every time far more, without all that "Coming Home" bollocks. 

    Anyway, time to go and flip another page over on my free gift Viz 'Years of Hurt' calender. ;)


    Yeah I agree then, the expectations and media go way over the top.  We played better than last time and have some good foundations to improve, nothing more, nothing less.   Despite being in the last 4 we're still a long way behind the big footballing nations (including some who weren't there).   It may never 'come home', but if we can be the best we can be, you can't ask more than that.

    I think everybody is ready is ready for a break with the coming home shite.
    The Irony now is though, you can't blame the media anymore, it used to be the red top papers whipping it up, now it's mainly the fans on social media....
    This was one of the best things about the last 3 weeks. They've bought a nation together and given us something to cheer about and take our mind off the fucking car crash of the people running our country who couldn't negotiate their way out of a paper bag and fucking everything else up for us.

    The scenes from Hyde Park last night were nothing short of incredible. I can't imagine how amazing the atmosphere was when Trippier's free kick went in. I've not seen anything like that (on that scale) since Euro 96.

    Some of the It's Coming Home memes were genuinely hilarious, and the one that circulated yesterday parodying the famous Hitler meltdown scene in Downfall was incredible.

    Gareth Southgate and the whole team have done the impossible; they've taken a nation of disillusioned fans who have had 20 years of celebrities who gave absolutely ZERO fucks about representing their country, and completely turned it around (in two years!) to give us a team we can and want to believe in again.

    The passion and heart this team showed was second to none. Who else just assumed, when Colombia equalised with the last kick of the game, that we'd blown our chance. Previous teams would have crumbled, dropped their heads and let teams roll us over. They showed great resolve and grit to get through that game and break the Penalties curse.

    Let the fans drum up the frenzy, it's been a great three weeks - just a shame the ride is over.
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  • Ben8010Ben8010 Frets: 118
    Emp_Fab said:
    What's worse than England losing is being in a pub full of pissed Yorkshiremen barking about what England's tactical mistakes were as if they were the world's greatest managers instead of builders from Bradford.
    You wanna try living here mate. I had to bite my tongue a few times last night to not get into an argument with some whinger who thought they were Brian Clough. 
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  • mark123mark123 Frets: 187
    Rocker said:
    Croatia are bound to be tired after two ET games so I rate England as favourites to make the Final. And I think Belgium will just about shade it over France tonight.

    Alert. My predictions history is dodgy to say the least.
    aye you can say that again   =) :o :/
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  • Ben8010Ben8010 Frets: 118
    For the first time in my life I wasn't pissed off about going out last night. I am completely gutted about it but also proud of what the team did. They got further than what anyone expected and induced some spirit into the nation, which prompted the majority to get behind them (even my Mum was getting into it, and she usually does nothing but complain about it). Best of all they made me genuinely believe again that we could win it. All of this made for the most enjoyable WC I've had.

    Croatia are a good team with some very good players. We should have put them away in the first half, but there's no shame in losing to them and I'm certainly gonna be willing them on in the final.

    I put a fiver on Croatia at 5/1 at half time so I had something to soften the blow if we cocked it up. It turns out I should have put a lot more on because I'm still fucking gutted and a £25 win is not doing a right lot to soften it.
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  • menamestommenamestom Frets: 2184
    joneve said:
     

    Let the fans drum up the frenzy, it's been a great three weeks - just a shame the ride is over.
    I enjoyed it while it lasted, but it's like Christmas, as soon as it's over get the decorations down.

    Certainly feel deflated today though!
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  • munckeemunckee Frets: 1035
    Ben8010 said:
    For the first time in my life I wasn't pissed off about going out last night. I am completely gutted about it but also proud of what the team did. They got further than what anyone expected and induced some spirit into the nation, which prompted the majority to get behind them (even my Mum was getting into it, and she usually does nothing but complain about it). Best of all they made me genuinely believe again that we could win it. All of this made for the most enjoyable WC I've had.

    Croatia are a good team with some very good players. We should have put them away in the first half, but there's no shame in losing to them and I'm certainly gonna be willing them on in the final.

    I put a fiver on Croatia at 5/1 at half time so I had something to soften the blow if we cocked it up. It turns out I should have put a lot more on because I'm still fucking gutted and a £25 win is not doing a right lot to soften it.
    Splitter!   Betting on the opposition is still a hanging offence I believe : )
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  • sinbaadisinbaadi Frets: 807
    I'm not too disappointed but I thought we had the best chance I'll ever see in my lifetime, which is depressing.

    We didn't take any big scalps, which I think were we talking about Germany would be noteworthy, and whilst we didn't slip up on go out on penalties, we didn't play great football.  The early goal hurt us.  Croatia pressed higher up and exploited our lack of ability at basic passing.  We just kept giving them the ball back.  Sterling is just another forgettable pacey striker to add to the list.  Offered nothing.

    We might have nicked it had it stayed 0-0 past 60 minutes with Croatia still slightly cautious.
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  • EdPhelanEdPhelan Frets: 6
    The tournament as a whole as been a breath of fresh air, and it has been great to see England show a bit of fighting spirit and commitment for a change! In days gone by there were too many egos in the team as a whole and I think this team has a real sense of togetherness and offers the nation hope for future tournaments!
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 10326
    To be honest the Semi was about as far as we could get, we just don't score goals in open play and you can only do so much with set pieces - fantastic though we were at them. The most I have enjoyed a tournament in many a year. I hope that the improved England will keep improving, we will need to from now on, we won't get as easy a draw again.
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  • BellycasterBellycaster Frets: 2346
    Emp_Fab said:
    Bellycaster said: K9
    Emp_Fab said:
    What's worse than England losing is being in a pub full of pissed Yorkshiremen barking about what England's tactical mistakes were as if they were the world's greatest managers instead of builders from Bradford.
    No need to single out and make general sweeping statements about people from Yorkshire. Armchair Managers from Yorkshire are no different from the 100000's of Armchair Managers from all the other Counties.

    I could make sweeping statements about how all the Welsh "Sheep Shaggers" would have been in the Boozer tonight spitting Bile to the English team on TV and will now all be celebrating our demise and singing in close harmony about how Green their Valley is.
    Er....   It wasn't a "sweeping statement".  I was in a pub near Worcester and it WAS full of Yorkshiremen banging on about how England could have won if only they'd done X. Y or Z

    It wasn't an attempt to cast aspersions  about a regional stereotype.  It was the truth.
    Fair enough, but I stand by the fact that this scene would be repeated all over the Country with all different County Folk.
    I like Welsh people!
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  • VibetronicVibetronic Frets: 254
    what @joneve said. Could've been a lot worse, Sam Allardyce could've been in charge. Doesn't really bear thinking about.
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  • Ben8010Ben8010 Frets: 118
    munckee said:

    Splitter!   Betting on the opposition is still a hanging offence I believe : )
    Well, I never win bets anyway so me betting on a team is usually a good omen for the opposition! Just a shame it didn't work that way this time...
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  • Creed_ClicksCreed_Clicks Frets: 32
    Whatever about the perceived hype or over hype, if Ireland had been in the semi final, the hype would have been off the charts here. I don't think we would have said "we can win this", but it would have been in over drive for sure...
    Anyways, tis all done now!
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4008
    So who will make the FIFA player of the tournament - I'd go for Modric - suspect it might go to Mpappe
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4008
    VAR - have you noticed that since we got to the knockout stages it has barely been used and struggling to remember any contentious issue since this stage
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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 13577
    So who will make the FIFA player of the tournament - I'd go for Modric - suspect it might go to Mpappe
    I hope Modric. I really do.

    Mcrappe really got on my nerves in the semi final. 
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4008
    So who will make the FIFA player of the tournament - I'd go for Modric - suspect it might go to Mpappe
    I hope Modric. I really do.

    Mcrappe really got on my nerves in the semi final. 
    agree about Mcrappe

    Modric has conducted himself pretty well throughout much of his career - I think if I could pick just one player from this tournament to sit in the England team, in any position, that could have made a difference, then I'd go with Modric
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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 13577
    So who will make the FIFA player of the tournament - I'd go for Modric - suspect it might go to Mpappe
    I hope Modric. I really do.

    Mcrappe really got on my nerves in the semi final. 
    agree about Mcrappe

    Modric has conducted himself pretty well throughout much of his career - I think if I could pick just one player from this tournament to sit in the England team, in any position, that could have made a difference, then I'd go with Modric
    I said above we need a Modric style midfielder to work their magic and unlock this England team's potential. 

    We saw lots of different elements of where this future England team could go and what they could achieve with the right coaching and experience, but what we didn't see what that flash of Gazza style midfield playmaking that Modric is so good at. 
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 3497
    guitars4you said:

    Modric has conducted himself pretty well throughout much of his career - I think if I could pick just one player from this tournament to sit in the England team, in any position, that could have made a difference, then I'd go with Modric

    He'd be high on the list.

    Ironically, Mbappe would make a difference to England.  Replace Sterling with someone who has just as much pace, but can play football.

    Coutinho would be another option.

    England probably were one world class player away at the end of the day.

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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 13577
    crunchman said:
    guitars4you said:

    Modric has conducted himself pretty well throughout much of his career - I think if I could pick just one player from this tournament to sit in the England team, in any position, that could have made a difference, then I'd go with Modric

    He'd be high on the list.

    Ironically, Mbappe would make a difference to England.  Replace Sterling with someone who has just as much pace, but can play football.

    Coutinho would be another option.

    England probably were one world class player away at the end of the day.

    Mbappe would have made a difference in our semi final. He'd have fucked about for much of the second half wasting time so it finished 1-0....
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  • warheadwarhead Frets: 51
    I am very pleased to read how you lot took the defeat. Very civilized comments...and thanks for most of you wishing Croatia well in the finals.
    i wasn`t really watching the game, but have followed the score and am happy my team made it this far, it is an amazing success. They always had the talent, but missed cojones.
    Seemed like England might of ended it in the first half though........
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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 4666
    Is everybody excited at the thought of today's third plce playoff?

    Is ANYONE excited at the thought of today's third plce playoff?

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  • NiteflyNitefly Frets: 2035
    Me - there are still points to be had  :3

    Grown most uncommonly fat!
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