Buying water

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RockerRocker Frets: 2706
And I don't mean paying the annual water charge.  We have the mains water for washing and general use and a deep well for drinking and cooking water.  Recently the well pump seized, it was close to twenty years in use so it owes us nothing anyway, mains water tastes awful so we had no alternative but to buy large bottles of water for tea making and drinking.

I decided to avail of the opportunity to rebuild the pumphouse which includes a rewire job.  Most of this work is done, we are waiting for the doors before calling in the plumber to install the replacement pump.  I find the idea of buying water in Ireland to be completely crazy.  It rains here almost as much as it does in Scotland.

Life is full of new experiences.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

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  • exocetexocet Frets: 545
    Why not filter the incoming mains to reduce chlorine taste etc?
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  • blobbblobb Frets: 850
    You know, we once did some R&D on how to make tap water taste 'nice'. It's one of the biggest complaints and there is no requirement to make it taste nice (but it must be 'Wholesome'!). Depends on the source (river water = bad, aquifer = good) and how far down the line you are (furthest from source = lowest Chlorine residual). The answer was to aerate it before putting into supply. However, although aerated water tastes good, it looks cloudy. In the testing, people then started complaining that cloudy water was a problem - general public eh, can't live with 'em, can't kill 'em. Ah well.
    Feelin' Reelin' & Squeelin'
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  • valevale Frets: 1036
    edited June 14
    i'm on the south east coast (sussex) & i'm sorry to tell you (in view of your travails) but the water here is actually delicious. i drink it just to drink it because it tastes so nice. i drink gallons.

    i've visited lots of places around mainland UK (is that term offensive to Irelend, I'm never sure, correct me if it is?) & only Bath comparable in taste. maybe it's a chalky thing?
    & i lived in a little village (south downs) that ran off their own spring, which was also amazing, but offgrid obvs not a usual option.

    worst was Maidstone. very plasticky. & most of London tastes tinny.

    btw plastic bottled water to be avoided long-term because the plasticisers can end up in the water over time. re chlorine, have you tried boiling off &/or letting it stand overnight. supposed to help?

    is your pump to your own well, or is it just to get it from the mains/reservior to your house?
    hofner hussie & hayman harpie. what she said...
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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 9381
    We have desalinated water here. It tastes ok but a bit chlorine-y. Perfectly safe and ok for brushing teeth but not great for drinking. Fine once boiled though. We just keep a brita jug in the fridge for cold-drinking.

    The best water is in Iceland. I've drunk from the streams that feed straight off the glaciers. Absolutely wonderful.
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  • RockerRocker Frets: 2706
    @vale the term mainland UK is not offensive in Ireland, it is the logical term for Scotland, Wales and England. 

    The pump I refer to is a private well and it supplies our house only. The well water is high in lime and is sparkling clear. No idea where the mains water source is, it might be Louth Owel. You make an interesting point about plastic bottles, we will have our own well back in operation soon. 
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

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  • blobbblobb Frets: 850
    vale said:
    i'm on the south east coast (sussex) & i'm sorry to tell you (in view of your travails) but the water here is actually delicious. i drink it just to drink it because it tastes so nice. i drink gallons.

    That'll be the chalk aquifer doing it's filtration thing. I used to live in Portsmouth and while it tasted ok, it destroyed kettles in a matter of weeks. top tip - put sea shells in your kettle to attract the scale away.

    btw plastic bottled water to be avoided long-term because the plasticisers can end up in the water over time.
    Phthalates (try saying that after you've had a few )

    We have desalinated water here. It tastes ok but a bit chlorine-y. Perfectly safe and ok for brushing teeth but not great for drinking. Fine once boiled though. We just keep a brita jug in the fridge for cold-drinking.

    Thing with desalinated water is that it needs to be blended with 'normal water' or re-mineralised, otherwise it RO's your guts - plenty of idiots on the interweb promote drinking desal water with no blending! So it will taste like the blend water or a glass of Andrews salts. Chlorine is an extra flavour treat on top of the natural taste of the water, but you would rather that than a dose of crypto. As you say, Iceland glacial water is probably as good as it gets, but we get a pretty good pure taste up here in Mid Wales.

    Water Co's are putting a lot of investment into transferring upland water into lowland supplies at the moment to tackle to taste complaints. Also using UV rather than chlorine to stop the swimming pool taste issue.

    Did you know.....a few years back Coca-cola tried to set up a Coke distribution network, yup direct to your home on metered connection so you could get fizzy acid from your tap. This is the company that tried to sell desalinated tap water without re-blending it (it's illegal to sell tap water on, even more illegal to poison people with desal). Still, the Desani brand is going strong in the good old USofA. Watch out brexiteers here they come.......

    ...and I'm not even going to mention Nestle, oh I just did.

    Feelin' Reelin' & Squeelin'
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  • skunkwerxskunkwerx Frets: 1375
    I often buy bottles in the shops because I’m far too lazy to refil the brita filter. Also easier to keep a few bottles in me bag or ready to take out on the bike. 

    Brita filter helps loads but I get lazy with it haha. 

    Im just outside London and the mains is drinkable but seems to give me stomach aches sometimes as well as not tasting as nice as bottled. 
    The only easy day, was yesterday...
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  • valevale Frets: 1036
    skunkwerx said:
    I often buy bottles in the shops because I’m far too lazy to refil the brita filter. Also easier to keep a few bottles in me bag or ready to take out on the bike. 

    Brita filter helps loads but I get lazy with it haha. 

    Im just outside London and the mains is drinkable but seems to give me stomach aches sometimes as well as not tasting as nice as bottled. 
    you can get BPA-free drinking water bottles with mini chracoal filters that you just fill from the nearest tap & leave on your desk to percolate between filling & drinking. maybe worth a try?
    hofner hussie & hayman harpie. what she said...
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  • valevale Frets: 1036
    edited June 14
    Rocker said:
    @vale the term mainland UK is not offensive in Ireland, it is the logical term for Scotland, Wales and England. 

    The pump I refer to is a private well and it supplies our house only. The well water is high in lime and is sparkling clear. No idea where the mains water source is, it might be Louth Owel. You make an interesting point about plastic bottles, we will have our own well back in operation soon. 
    very lucky to have your own well supply. as i mentioned i used to live in a little village near Lewes that had its own spring. water in winter was sensational. so light & crystal clear.

    i'm a terrible water snob tbh. super-fussy about it. but water quality is such a fundamental thing, so essential to health, that is so often overlooked, whereas things like fad dieting & dubious unecessary vitamins (anything multi-dollar corporations can hype & plug) get disproportionately more coverage.

    a good liver (don't drink) & a good water supply & a good sweat a few times a week (gym or bedroom) can achieve far more in terms of detoxifying your system that a bucket load of crank antioxidants taken every day for a lifetime. but the stuff that generates profit & tax always gets the headlines.

    get well soon!
    hofner hussie & hayman harpie. what she said...
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16671
    Rocker said:
    And I don't mean paying the annual water charge.  We have the mains water for washing and general use and a deep well for drinking and cooking water.  Recently the well pump seized, it was close to twenty years in use so it owes us nothing anyway, mains water tastes awful so we had no alternative but to buy large bottles of water for tea making and drinking.

    I decided to avail of the opportunity to rebuild the pumphouse which includes a rewire job.  Most of this work is done, we are waiting for the doors before calling in the plumber to install the replacement pump.  I find the idea of buying water in Ireland to be completely crazy.  It rains here almost as much as it does in Scotland.

    Life is full of new experiences.
    Ireland should export water to England. I live in a very dry area. The ground i currently rock hard and the water company are considering a hosepipe ban.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • merlinmerlin Frets: 1360
    Brita = Bollocks. 

    Go Berkey, your life will change. 
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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 9381
    blobb said:
     
    We have desalinated water here. It tastes ok but a bit chlorine-y. Perfectly safe and ok for brushing teeth but not great for drinking. Fine once boiled though. We just keep a brita jug in the fridge for cold-drinking.

    Thing with desalinated water is that it needs to be blended with 'normal water' or re-mineralised, otherwise it RO's your guts - plenty of idiots on the interweb promote drinking desal water with no blending! So it will taste like the blend water or a glass of Andrews salts. Chlorine is an extra flavour treat on top of the natural taste of the water, but you would rather that than a dose of crypto. As you say, Iceland glacial water is probably as good as it gets, but we get a pretty good pure taste up here in Mid Wales.

    Water Co's are putting a lot of investment into transferring upland water into lowland supplies at the moment to tackle to taste complaints. Also using UV rather than chlorine to stop the swimming pool taste issue.

    Did you know.....a few years back Coca-cola tried to set up a Coke distribution network, yup direct to your home on metered connection so you could get fizzy acid from your tap. This is the company that tried to sell desalinated tap water without re-blending it (it's illegal to sell tap water on, even more illegal to poison people with desal). Still, the Desani brand is going strong in the good old USofA. Watch out brexiteers here they come.......

    ...and I'm not even going to mention Nestle, oh I just did.

    Yes, absolutely. It's actually a major part of the cost of the desal process (i've worked on tenders for developers to build RO plants for a few years now!). Out here (UAE) they re-chlorinate to pre-specified levels. You can't blend as we don't have any "normal water" - your only other water is the seawater you started with :)

    And yeah, don't get me started about Coke & Nestle - the shit they try and pull to effectively bottle so much water it causes shortages and then sell that water back to people...
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  • grungebobgrungebob Frets: 1091
    @blobb  UV must come with a rise in opex can chlorine dioxide not be used instead?
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  • blobbblobb Frets: 850
    Well, investment decision now are made on TOTEX - total or whole life cost. So OPEX is but one part of the assessment. There is also a drive to embrace new technology, for better or worse.

    Security of supply is the biggest thing to get right. Chlorine dosing is base on what they call breakpoint dosing, so you put the minimum into supply based on a residual reading. Get this wrong and you have to shut down the supply (using an instant response valve on the supply line), this can cause issues so they look for continuity of supply solutions. UV offers the opportunity to run a standby set of lamps in the event of duty failure, so you never lose the supply. We used Ozonation on some plants but O3 is pretty deadly, you have to destroy any that is not used in the process. The Ozone destruction plant were beautiful to watch, sparking plasma, but the cost was extortionate.

    The biggest problem with chlorine - and any chemical - is handling it on site. All large water works which use it have air raid sirens which go off if there is a leak and windsocks so you know which direction to run. UV is a nice neat package plant with standby and no chemsafe procedures to worry about. We had a few OSEC plants, which generate Chlorine on demand electrostatically (Salt + water + electricity) but they were prone to blowing up.
    Feelin' Reelin' & Squeelin'
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  • rawk100rawk100 Frets: 850
    Alot of water companies now use hypochlorite solution, instead of chlorine gas, which is a lot safer. Depending on the quality of the raw water it is sometimes necessary to treat with both UV and secondary chlorine disinfection. The PH of RO water can be increased by adding sodium hydroxide.
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  • grungebobgrungebob Frets: 1091
    @blobb yeah I get all that, my point being was that chlorine dioxide doesn’t break down like say hypo does and there’s no free chlorine per se so a much safer bio dispersant and can be used in an RO system.  Dependant on usage levels you can either manufacture onsite or obtain a stable compound, no gas, no fuss. 
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  • grungebobgrungebob Frets: 1091
    rawk100 said:
    Alot of water companies now use hypochlorite solution, instead of chlorine gas, which is a lot safer. Depending on the quality of the raw water it is sometimes necessary to treat with both UV and secondary chlorine disinfection. The PH of RO water can be increased by adding sodium hydroxide.
    Unless you’re using very robust membranes ( or run to failure)most RO’s are very intolerant of high ORP so this rules out hypo upfront dosing unless you also include bisulphate but you probably don’t want to do that for drinking water?

    my knowledge base comes largely from refinery ETPs and large scale demin plants so I don’t know the  can/cannt of the potable world. 
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  • blobbblobb Frets: 850
    I think Chlorine dioxide plants are available on the market, not sure how they stack up on TOTEX basis though.
    Feelin' Reelin' & Squeelin'
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  • grungebobgrungebob Frets: 1091
    blobb said:
    I think Chlorine dioxide plants are available on the market, not sure how they stack up on TOTEX basis though.
    Its stable to buy bulk for 9 months almost at hypo prices so nothing extravagant, certainly no need to onsite manufacturer (unless your blowing through 20t/day). 
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  • sev112sev112 Frets: 380
    Rocker said:
    @vale the term mainland UK is not offensive in Ireland, it is the logical term for Scotland, Wales and England. 


    I used to get grief from the civil servants and the odd minister on the Isle of Man when I used to use mainland - they considered the IoM to be the mainland :)
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  • rawk100rawk100 Frets: 850
    grungebob said:k
    rawk100 said:
    Alot of water companies now use hypochlorite solution, instead of chlorine gas, which is a lot safer. Depending on the quality of the raw water it is sometimes necessary to treat with both UV and secondary chlorine disinfection. The PH of RO water can be increased by adding sodium hydroxide.
    Unless you’re using very robust membranes ( or run to failure)most RO’s are very intolerant of high ORP so this rules out hypo upfront dosing unless you also include bisulphate but you probably don’t want to do that for drinking water?

    my knowledge base comes largely from refinery ETPs and large scale demin plants so I don’t know the  can/cannt of the potable world. 
    Yeah the membranes certainly dont like hypo,  The potable sites I've worked on put the membranes early on in the process before any chlorine treatment. Bisulphate is used on super chloronation sites where a high level of chlorine is injected, then it receives a certain contact time with the water to ensure disinfection before the chlorine is reduced with bisulphate before going to the reservoir.
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  • grungebobgrungebob Frets: 1091
    rawk100 said:
    grungebob said:k
    rawk100 said:
    Alot of water companies now use hypochlorite solution, instead of chlorine gas, which is a lot safer. Depending on the quality of the raw water it is sometimes necessary to treat with both UV and secondary chlorine disinfection. The PH of RO water can be increased by adding sodium hydroxide.
    Unless you’re using very robust membranes ( or run to failure)most RO’s are very intolerant of high ORP so this rules out hypo upfront dosing unless you also include bisulphate but you probably don’t want to do that for drinking water?

    my knowledge base comes largely from refinery ETPs and large scale demin plants so I don’t know the  can/cannt of the potable world. 
    Yeah the membranes certainly dont like hypo,  The potable sites I've worked on put the membranes early on in the process before any chlorine treatment. Bisulphate is used on super chloronation sites where a high level of chlorine is injected, then it receives a certain contact time with the water to ensure disinfection before the chlorine is reduced with bisulphate before going to the reservoir.
    Are you aiming for an orp less than 300?
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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 9381
    sev112 said:
    Rocker said:
    @vale the term mainland UK is not offensive in Ireland, it is the logical term for Scotland, Wales and England. 


    I used to get grief from the civil servants and the odd minister on the Isle of Man when I used to use mainland - they considered the IoM to be the mainland :)
    I think it takes a special type of person to live on the Isle of Mann in the first place, so this isn’t unexpected!
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  • robwrightrobwright Frets: 583
    sev112 said:
    Rocker said:
    @vale the term mainland UK is not offensive in Ireland, it is the logical term for Scotland, Wales and England. 


    I used to get grief from the civil servants and the odd minister on the Isle of Man when I used to use mainland - they considered the IoM to be the mainland :)
    I think it takes a special type of person to live on the Isle of Mann in the first place, so this isn’t unexpected!
    And a special type of cat ......



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  • KebabkidKebabkid Frets: 1414
    Buy a reverse osmosis machine (tanks etc installs under your sink). Add a mineraliser to it to add the good stuff. You'll have a small, separate tap there as well.

    They're about £250 plus fitting, unless you can do that yourself. Main filters needs changing every 6mth (£30) and membrane every 18mths.

    Good, clean water and much cheaper than bottled.
     www.cairoeast.co.uk - Madness Tribute band (Bass Player) and guitarist elsewhere
    Feedback - http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/57885/
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 10762
    I'd have just got used to the mains water and saved the money. It's what everyone else drinks.
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  • pintspillerpintspiller Frets: 527
    Going on holiday fucks me up. I always blame it on the change of water
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