From Digitalscream & TTony

TTony

The Headline

Lee and I are both stepping away from the forum.

 

The TL:DR version

We're fed up of too much of the behaviour here, and of having to deal with the various consequences.  We get no enjoyment or satisfaction from it.  Whilst dealing with all the day-to-day crap we have neither the time nor enthusiasm to try to work out whether there's anything that we can do to remedy the situation.

 

The Detail

This has been coming for a while.  It's no one post, thread or individual, but more the accumulation of lots of posts, threads and individuals that have forced us to accept that the forum isn't something that we're particularly proud of anymore, and so we've both questioned the sanity of continuing to put in all the time and effort required to maintain it.

If blame is to be apportioned, then it falls largely on us.  We set the rules and we set how they'd be applied.  And either the rules or their application have created this situation.

Us stepping away isn't critical for the forum.  Roland and Jalapeno will continue in the moderator roles, so this isn't an opportunity for an outbreak of anarchy.  Indeed, if there is such an outbreak, it's likely to be dealt with far more "decisively" than previously.  Take that as a warning.  Roland and Jalapeno also know how to contact us if/when a critical need arises.

Lee never strays too far from the server room, or the status alerts, so if there’s any sort of technical issue, he’ll continue to work through the nights to fix them.

Neither is our departure necessarily forever.

If we can use the time and space to work out how to resolve the various things that we're unhappy with, then we'll return and give it another go.

We started out - nearly 5 years ago - with a community.  It had values that were largely shared, we shared an objective of building something to replace the old MR forum.  Perhaps the shared challenge, need, and "we're all in it together" feeling created that community.

Perhaps, once that was achieved, we didn't have a clear objective around which to base the forum as it grew, grew, and grew some more.

Since the early days, many people have joined.  Some of those seem to share the "community first" ethos, and have contributed strongly to building, strengthening and growing the community aspects.  Others - more, unfortunately - have joined with a different perspective, namely "me, me, me".

Again, that's our fault.  We wanted the community to grow, it has to grow or die, so we welcomed all-comers and hoped that they'd share and show the same values. 

To re-state, in the interests of being absolutely clear, this isn't about any individual post, thread or person.   That would have been easy to deal with.

It's the accumulation of people who use the platform to shout about their grievances (whether fair or not) and cause us grief in responding to the inevitable legals that follow. 

It's those who think that any business is fair game and should be trashed with their complaints.  Thanks, that's pretty much ruled out any serious business participation in the forum, ruled out the deals that we were hoping to offer to the wider membership, and is to the detriment of everyone.

It's the freeloaders who mistakenly think that the forum is FreeBay - a nice safe and FREE platform in which they can sell without any of the drawbacks of eBay et al.  Buy cheap, sell for £50 more, arbitrage between different markets and buy a new PS4 game for their bedrooms.

It's those who either don't bother to read the relatvely few and simple rules that we do have, don't think they apply to them, or just fail to understand them.  And who then reply with a stream of abuse when asked to abide by those rules.

It's about those who complain that they missed a raffle or that they wouldn't wear a blue baseball cap around a guitar show.  It's not about YOU, it's about raising money to keep the forum going, and free, or about showing how many members we have attending a guitar show.

It's about everyone who takes, takes and takes again without considering those that they're taking from, or that maybe one day, if everyone just takes, then there'll be nothing left to take from.

For those who are now thinking "ah yes, but that's the Internet and you can't change it".  Maybe you're right.  But if you can't stop the tide, get off the beach.

That's all negative.  

We don't dispute that there are some amazing positives here too (the jam sessions, the making & modding section pretty much in its entirety, the "of the month" challenges, and the general care and support that is given to many by even more) and the positives are why we've put up with the negatives for so long.  But the balance continues to shift. 

We need the time away.  We need to see if the enthusiam returns.  We need to try to work out if we can achieve a more positive balance and return the forum to being more of a community, something that we're proud of having created, and something that we'd want to lead again.

viz

Guys you’ve been amazing, the forum was and is a testament to what you have achieved, see you again soon I hope, if only as users

(good flounce by the way!)

IvisonGuitars

Well, thank you both for the invaluable time and effort you’ve put into this place, you have done a fanstaic job and formed a brilliant community.

I think for your own sanities, this is a wise move, just don’t stay away too long, eh?

mrkb

That’s sad news, I really appreciate what you’ve all created here. Enjoy your time away and I hope you return in the future.

and I’m sorry for not wearing a cap at the guitar show (though it was hanging from my backpack all day)- I didn’t understand why it was important to your vision. Looking back that’s a lot of work when you don’t get the response you were after.

musteatbrain

I don’t blame you!
thanks for the hard work you’ve put in I appreciate it massively

EricTheWeary

Sad news but we all need a break from whatever we do. Bring us back a stick of rock. 

Dominic

Great Job well done........deserved rest.
What a shame but at least you'll be able to get a bit of own life/family time back .........it's like a more intense version of being a chairman of a large residents association ........you deal with all the crap issues selflessly, unpaid etc ;it takes over your life and ends up chaining you to the monster you created.

boogieman

Well I have to say I’m a bit shocked reading this...not that I blame either of you for stepping out or taking time off, it’s certainly not a job that I would fancy. It must be massively frustrating and time consuming

It’s sad to read that the founding fathers of this place feel they have to leave because of a few members who can’t stick to one simple rule. Best of luck to both of you and thanks for all your efforts over the last five years, you will be missed hugely. 

proggy

That's a shame, fully understandable but a shame nonetheless.

merlin

I'm a mod on a forum across the pond, that deals with a different area of Music, instruments culture and activities. I get the pain, frustrations and complexities that happen on fora. Also we have language issues there, as the forum is conducted in English but we attract many people for whom English is a second (or third) language and that causes all manner of weirdness and misunderstandings, spurting anger and general negativity. 

I hope both of you have some valuable downtime and if either of you want to drop down to Brighton for a chat/pint/coffee/martini, then you'd be welcome to drop in. Let me know! 

DavidRees

a big thank you from me for what you have done ...

hywelg

There comes a time for everyone who runs a venture as a volunteer when you have to ask the question 'whats in it for me?'.

I've had it happen  twice, once trying to run a band and also trying to run a windsurfing club. Enthusiasm wanes and it does so more rapidly when you perceive that there are too many people taking your efforts for granted. 

You chaps have created a community and done it well. Enjoy your break, do something new and your enthusiasm will probably return. But you could just enjoy using your creation like we do, without the hassle of being in charge. Whatever you do rest assured there are lots of us who hugely appreciate your efforts. 

darthed1981

I've found this to be a great community, so I do hope your feelings change and you both feel you can come back soon.

Still this is a sad day for the Fretboard.

Neil

Sorry to hear this from you two Gents, it's a great forum and it is mostly down to the both of you I would suspect.

It's horrible that you feel you have to stand back because of some sad sacks but it must get a bit tiresome dealing with them and their fallout after a while.

Have a great rest and hopefully see you around here again in the future. 

fandango

Many thanks @TTony and @digitalscream ;

It’s about as suprising as ... well it’s not the time or place to fuss with comparisons. In reading your post, I appreciate there’s only so much you can put up with, and only so much you can do to remedy the situation and steer a keen course.

Thankyou for all your efforts, patience, persistance, encouragement, organisation, etc, etc

You will be sorely missed, but I very much hope you renew your minds and enjoy your rediscovered freedoms, and to get stuck in to whatever else it is you do and enjoy. And I also hope those around you reap the benefits too.

Take care, and see you around (as they say).

Fandango

DrCornelius

@TTony I’m really sorry to hear that, I love this place and have met some fantastic people through being part of it. Over and above pledging money towards costs is there any other way I/we can help - is the a chance for you to spread the load amongst us to take some pressure off or would that get messy ?

guitars4you

A big thanks from me for all your help and support - You should be proud of what you've created - I'm sure most/many don't see and appreciate what goes on behind the scenes - I think as a big overview you've created a community that would not have existed without your hard work and enthusiasm - Enjoy the break - Don't stay away and make sure you keep in touch

Very best wishes - Mark

soma1975

Many thanks for setting this place up. I understand where you're coming from and it's good to step away once in a while and let things take care of themselves, but hopefully a break will also help you gain some perspective and to see that compared to the rest of the internet this place is like a cool refreshing oasis of calm and sweetness.

There's certainly a community feeling here and compared to the many places online that I frequent or contribute to there is still a ton of courtesy and respect that I don't see in many other places, even if you may feel its original core spirit has been diluted somewhat. I've not yet met up for a jam or recorded a monthly challenge cut but I still feel part of it all. 

interstellar

thanks very much, first and only forum i have been on and its been a great experience, hugely informative. 

poopot

Saddened by this news tbh! But totally understand!.

for what it’s worth, everyone I have met or interacted with on the forum has been thoroughly decent! I guess you gravitate towards like minded folk here as you would in normal life!. I can see that the crap you both have to deal with is a massive ball ache but from an outsiders perspective the possitives far outway the negatives. It’s a great forum you have both created!

Dont let the few “takers” sour what you have achieved here! More importantly, don’t stay away too long!!!!

GoldenEraGuitars

Disheartening to read. Not because of what has been written, but because of why it has been written.

If it’s of any conciliation I have pretty much binned my own personal Facebook page (as in I’m not posting on it or checking it) because of the nonsense that seems to appear daily out with your control. 

I dont blame you guys at all for taking a step back, I said just the other day that I’d noticed too many discussions turning into shit flinging arguments. For that reason I will continue to post in my own business page thread but outside of that I’ll perhaps take a spectator role.

The forum is a real credit to you both @digitalscream and @TTony . I feel sorry for the crap you have to deal with once we all log out. It appears that people forget that anyone can read what is typed. Being objective and presenting a decent opinion with some sort of logic behind it is fair enough. Pointless character assassination is ridiculous.

Thank you for your dedication and hard work.