From Digitalscream & TTony

Chris777

I would like to thank you both for this forum, although not able to be here regular, I have met and made some great friends, and have found the forum always very friendly and helpful, and has certainly brightened some black days here for me, I wish I could contribute in some way, hope you will return in the future, all the best Chris.

Roland

Legionreturns said:

Funkfingers said:

Sits back and awaits ban hammer.

There's nobody to wield it  

http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/7269/admin-mod-interventions#latest

Brocco

This is sad news indeed. As a member here for only the past 10 months (with no activity in the classifieds) my personal experience has been whole-heartedly positive. Thank you creating this great forum from which so many of us benefit. 

As in society generally, members of this forum should be held accountable for their behaviour, with individuals who are intolerant, disrespectful or rude to others being removed. There should also be no place for individuals who try and 'game the system', and wonder whether an annual cap on trading activity would be a better deterrent than imposition of fees.  

Majorscale

Thanks @Digitalscream @ttony for all the hard work over the years, goodness knows what you have to deal with and keep hidden from us general users. This a great forum so I hope to see you back at some point. Enjoy some much deserved rest and relaxation!

bloodandtears

All the best guys...

Jason

Cheers guys, I hope you do come back in time. Enjoy your break.

crunchman

This is sad news.  Hopefully you will be back after a break.

Thinking about how to fix things, it seems that more mods would be a good idea.  Maybe split it by sections so no one individual gets too much work.

The thing that I noticed in TTony's original post, was the stuff about the legal side of things.  I think that there was a thread about issues with a vintage dealer that disappeared.  I'm guessing that it is things like this that are causing them issues.  That kind of thing is a difficult one.  If there are genuine crooks out there, people need to be warned, but some of those threads did come across as a bit of witch hunt, and when you heard the other side of the story things weren't quite as simple as initially presented.

I think there need to be clear guidelines regarding deals gone bad - either with dealers or with sales on the forum.  There has to be space to call out a Music Ground or a JCon, but at the same time, there also has to be a some kind of rule that things like this shouldn't be posted unless there is clear, verifiable evidence of wrongdoing.  Anything without that kind of evidence is opening the legal owners of The Fretboard up to legal action.

I wonder if all the Andertons (or PMT/GAK/insert_retailer_name_here)  bashing threads are causing problems as well.  I must confess that I've posted in a thread about one retailer how one of their staff lied to me about a guitar.  I'm certain it was ignorance on the part of a young lad working in the shop rather than shop policy, but even something like that could cause issues if the shop gets in contact and threatens to go legal.  Again, it's a difficult one, because there were several others who have had issues with that particular retailer, and I probably would avoid them in future.  That kind of information is genuinely useful to forum members, but could make life very difficult for the admins.

Some of these things aren't simple.  A BCD kind of section where it doesn't show in Google searches might make life easier for the modmins.  If it really is causing that much of a problem, then a ban on discussion of problems with retailers might be required.  Take the approach that if you have been messed around, then Trading Standards, or the small claims court is the right way to deal with it.  If you win in the small claims court then you can post about it to warn everyone as you can't then be accused of libel.

stephen.wood125

Whilst I can't sadly say I know either of you personally and I'm a relative newcomer, it's sad to read your message and the fact you are stepping away. 

I completely understand your reasons and if I have in any way contributed to the take take take I am very sorry.

You have in my experience done a truly marvellous job implementing and running this forum. I wish you both all the very best and truly hope to see you back here. A personal thank you for all you have done.

Stephen.

Nikko

Enjoy your time away Gents. The reasons stated for your departure pretty much mirror why I dont spend as much time here as I used to. Put your feet up, crack open a tinny (or 3), and relax.

Dont stay away too long though eh...

Sesh

This is really saddening.
Of all the forums I've visited, this is the only one I've liked and felt at home enough to contribute too. It's always had a good feel to it, and to see the people running it getting that hacked off to the point they need to step away is truly shameful.

I wish you both well and hope you come back soon.

Hopefully all our introspection will lead to positive changes. Sadly, I image those who really need to do the introspection won't, as is usually the case in these situations.

This is a great place, a great resource and a great community. @TTony and @digitalscream should be proud of what they have achieved with it, and however and wherever they decided to guide it should be accepted and respected.

Seymour1

Thanks for all that you've done in setting up and running the forum.

5 years is a long time to do this work - especially since the forum has shown continuous growth. Maybe worth increasing the number of modmins to sharer the workload?

I hope that this turns out to be a short break and that you both come back soon.

CHRISB50

TTFN.

Thanks for all the work you've done on keeping this place up and running. It's a good place.

ESBlonde

I well remember the early days following the @Emp_Fab lifeboat, the start of the fretboard and even the first members meet up and jam session. There is much heer that is a testiment to the efforts of those hardy sould that started this, some saw the red lights and backed away earlier and I became concerned that the remaining committee had got a hold of a tiger by the tale.
I commend your actions and wholeheartedly welcome your time of rest. Perhaps you can appoint a couple more mods and sit back a while before stearing the next chapter with a different approach.
Thank you all for your efforts.

TimmyO

digitalscream said:

One more thing before I bugger off...I've noticed a small number people posting supportive comments in this thread who've actually been part of the problem (in terms of acting against the original spirit of the place).

Jesus - that's about the most unhelpful thing you could have posted   - worth reflecting on "the original spirit of the place" because you're right, the various arguments and flounces and barely-contained behind the scenes rifts are exactly that. 

It'd be more healthy for the community, and doubtless those who put time and effort into running it, to decide on a set of values and then live them. If that means a degree of lawlessness, then so be it - your house your rules.

If it means a consistent application of consequences, ditto. 

At least that way the community that you are trying to cultivate can self-select. Nowhere is the right place for everyone That's basically the *definition* of community. 

None of us can pretend to know the details but it's been obvious for ages that you guys don't see eye to eye behind the scenes (actually now I think about it those who saw behind the curtain on Guitar Buddies actually *do* know some of the details) - just shit or get off the pot lol 

I'm guessing that nobody wants to give up the perceived 'value' of the old posts and the member count - which is ironic given that the forum flourished the most when it went from almost nothing and grew organically following the abrupt closure of MusicRadar.

Snags

crunchman said:

<lots of very sensible things about the issues around people dog-piling on retailers, with or without justification>

On another forum I used to visit regularly they have a very strict "Nothing that could even remotely get us in legal hot water" rule. The first hint of a libelous post and the thread is locked pending behind the scenes discussion/investigation, and usually then killed. But not always.

It does require much more active moderation (and they have quite a big team of volunteer mods and admins) but they take the view (quite rightly IMO) that it's a voluntary board, largely funded by a few people and regular members, and life is too short for that kind of stress.

It's always seemed a fairly sensible approach to me, and whilst it's very, very occasionally a bit heavy-handed, mostly it actually helps keep that place on topic and running smoothly.  (They also have 'hosts appreciation days' that are community organised to send little goodies to the mods to say thanks for all the crap they have to put up with, which isn't a bad idea, either).

FreddieVanHalen

Thank you to you both for your efforts in setting up and running this forum. It must have taken a huge amount of time.

It's a reasonable ask, I think, for all of us to reflect on our behaviour on social media of all types.

I have stepped back from social media quite a bit in the last year, partly in desperation at how some of the threads become so disrespectful (although thefretboard seems to be better than most).

In taking a step back, I've also recognised a bit more some of the times where I've been more a part of the problem than the solution. I'm not referring to here specifically by the way, I'm just accepting that there are times when I could have done better.

I've learned lots from this place and enjoyed meeting some folks from here.

Hope to see you back.

vale

huge thanks to you @digitalscream & @TTony & sorry to hear things have got to this.

if you really want & need to step back then obvoiusly you have to honour your insticts & do so, but i hope it's more stepping back than totally stepping out.
maybe once you've taken time out & had a chance to destress & recover sanity, you can fix up some kind of 'wintenss protection' scenario by which you can return to participating (maybe fake name & frets for a fresh start) in a way which frees you of the traumas & depressing duties, & means you can get back to being a for-kicks regular member as you were before your responsiblilities went nuclear. if you want to anyway.

i've enjoyed interacting with you over the forum during the short time i've been here, & for those who have been here ten times as long, that positive feeling will be ten times as strong.

i will also bear your broader points about people needing to reflect on the quality of thier membership (verb) & participation.
i don't think i have been responsible for any major dramas (never bought or sold in classifieds & i avoid the sh*itstorms in bcd). but maybe simpler things, like not just looking at a post of someone's build & thinking 'cool build' (& 'liking'), but actually taking time to comment why i like it & to voice real encouragement. generally being more active rather than passive in my appreciation of things, to keep a good vibe rolling. i try but probs room for improvement.
& maybe some of my jokes are stupid & pointless but that's an autism thing. not being able to imagine how someone else might not find something funny that i find hilarious. but i'm working on it.

anyway.... am sending you both huge thanks & best wishes. i hope you find your peace of mind asap.
& i also hope you find a way to be around here again (if you want to be), on your own terms, somewhen & somehow. you know you will be missed until you do.

shoodurs

Sad to hear you are both leaving. I dont post much as I'm quite shy but like the MR forum I love visiting here. This is by far my favourite forum and would hate to see it go to the wall. I hope you both get your enthusiasm back after your rest and return. Thanks for all your hard work guys!

RMJ

Sad face

p90fool

Emp_Fab said:

Honestly....  (and the caveat being that I'm no longer privy to what goes on in the admin area)...  I'm struggling to see what the big problem is.  From this side of the fence, the forum is calmer and happier than it's ever been.  I don't see this big troublesome burden you're describing @TTony. ; OK, I don't venture into the classifieds much but if that's a PITA, just shut them down.  

I haven't particularly noticed a change in tone either, but I put that down to the filtering effects of work done behind the scenes tbh.