Inhumane separation of children from parents

Emp_Fab

This is bordering on nazi-esque behaviour now.  What the fuck is wrong with him ?  This has to be stopped.  Where is the great outrage from the UN ?  This is 2018 America not 1930's Germany.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44515123

equalsql

The orange ape appears to idolise Kim Jong-un, so it's not surprising that such draconian abuses of human rights are now becoming the norm in the People's Republic of America. 

HAL9000

equalsql said:

...in the Democratic People's Republic of America. 

FTFY. (As in the Democratic People’s Republic of the Congo, or the Deutsche Demokratische Republik.)

As usual His Donaldness seems to be blaming the Democrats for this inhumane law. The truth is that is neither the law, nor is it attributable to the Dems. 

octatonic

HAL9000 said:

equalsql said:

...in the Democratic People's Republic of America. 

FTFY. (As in the Democratic People’s Republic of the Congo, or the Deutsche Demokratische Republik.)

As usual His Donaldness seems to be blaming the Democrats for this inhumane law. The truth is that is neither the law, nor is it attributable to the Dems. 

Yup, straight from the 'look what you made me do' playbook.

HAL9000

Emp_Fab said:

Where is the great outrage from the UN ?

To be honest, I wouldn't expect too much from the UN. It has far too often been seen as a tool to assist in implementing US foreign policy

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

Even his own wife has spoken out about the policy....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44515123

Jalapeno

Emp_Fab said:

This is 2018 America not 1930's Germany.

Not 1940s America you mean !

Fretwired

Ah .. moral outrage time. Some fact checking required here. Crossing with children is a relatively new phenomenon as people flee conflict in parts of South America. If people seeking asylum go through the right channels they are not separated. If they act illegally the adults are arrested and held in a prison/detention centre and the children are sent elsewhere.

The US is being swamped at the moment, but less than 2,000 families have been separated. Most are actually reunited after the adults have been processed. And contrary to the BBC these are not new laws and each state can implement laws as they see fit.

In the usual lets bash Trump and compare to the USA to the Nazis the real human tragedy is lost .. inadequate facilities, tents in 40 degree heat with insufficient water and sanitary facilities. This is inhuman. But then this threads about Trump bashing not people.

The UK is hardly whiter than white. Our detention centres are disgusting.

guitars4you

Not strictly relevant to the above OP, but a connection in that the USA was running 'Nazi style' 'secret eugenics' programs in the early part of 1900 - Way before the days of Nazi Germany - So nothing new for the USA to run such outrageous policies

In fact California’s eugenics program was so robust that the Nazi’s turned to California for advice in perfecting their own efforts. Hitler proudly admitted to following the laws of several American states that allowed for the prevention of reproduction of the “unfit” - The USA policy peaked around 1940 - Seriously influenced/financed by an Amercian Elite inc Rockefeller - We know Ford, The Bush family, Rockefeller, amongst many others, influenced and financed the German Nazi program

Fretwired

guitars4you said:

Not strictly relevant to the above OP, but a connection in that the USA was running 'Nazi style' 'secret eugenics' programs in the early part of 1900 - Way before the days of Nazi Germany - So nothing new for the USA to run such outrageous policies

In fact California’s eugenics program was so robust that the Nazi’s turned to California for advice in perfecting their own efforts. Hitler proudly admitted to following the laws of several American states that allowed for the prevention of reproduction of the “unfit” - The USA policy peaked around 1940 - Seriously influenced/financed by an Amercian Elite inc Rockefeller - We know Ford, The Bush family, Rockefeller, amongst many others, influenced and financed the German Nazi program

The US got the idea from Scandinavia. I think Sweden continued with policies including sterilisation well into the 1970s.

guitars4you

Fretwired said:

guitars4you said:

Not strictly relevant to the above OP, but a connection in that the USA was running 'Nazi style' 'secret eugenics' programs in the early part of 1900 - Way before the days of Nazi Germany - So nothing new for the USA to run such outrageous policies

In fact California’s eugenics program was so robust that the Nazi’s turned to California for advice in perfecting their own efforts. Hitler proudly admitted to following the laws of several American states that allowed for the prevention of reproduction of the “unfit” - The USA policy peaked around 1940 - Seriously influenced/financed by an Amercian Elite inc Rockefeller - We know Ford, The Bush family, Rockefeller, amongst many others, influenced and financed the German Nazi program

The US got the idea from Scandinavia. I think Sweden continued with policies including sterilisation well into the 1970s.

yes, interesting how distorted history books are on select regimes, yet 'the victors' can then hide such similar policies

Kilgore

Fretwired said:

Ah .. moral outrage time. Some fact checking required here. Crossing with children is a relatively new phenomenon as people flee conflict in parts of South America. If people seeking asylum go through the right channels they are not separated. If they act illegally the adults are arrested and held in a prison/detention centre and the children are sent elsewhere.

The US is being swamped at the moment, but less than 2,000 families have been separated. Most are actually reunited after the adults have been processed. And contrary to the BBC these are not new laws and each state can implement laws as they see fit.

In the usual lets bash Trump and compare to the USA to the Nazis the real human tragedy is lost .. inadequate facilities, tents in 40 degree heat with insufficient water and sanitary facilities. This is inhuman. But then this threads about Trump bashing not people.

The UK is hardly whiter than white. Our detention centres are disgusting.

Where does the BBC article say anything about new laws? It makes it clear that this is a policy decision by Jeff Sessions. This fiasco is a result of Trump's policy to prosecute first time border crossers.

Of course it's also worth pointing out that back in 2017 John Kelly said the White House was considering separating families to 'deter' parents from crossing the border. 

The usual Trump bashing? Yes it is for good reason as per usual. You're right that the human tragedy is being lost, but where does the 'buck stop' if not with Trump?

Fretwired

Kilgore said:

Fretwired said:

Ah .. moral outrage time. Some fact checking required here. Crossing with children is a relatively new phenomenon as people flee conflict in parts of South America. If people seeking asylum go through the right channels they are not separated. If they act illegally the adults are arrested and held in a prison/detention centre and the children are sent elsewhere.

The US is being swamped at the moment, but less than 2,000 families have been separated. Most are actually reunited after the adults have been processed. And contrary to the BBC these are not new laws and each state can implement laws as they see fit.

In the usual lets bash Trump and compare to the USA to the Nazis the real human tragedy is lost .. inadequate facilities, tents in 40 degree heat with insufficient water and sanitary facilities. This is inhuman. But then this threads about Trump bashing not people.

The UK is hardly whiter than white. Our detention centres are disgusting.

Where does the BBC article say anything about new laws? It makes it clear that this is a policy decision by Jeff Sessions. This fiasco is a result of Trump's policy to prosecute first time border crossers.

Of course it's also worth pointing out that back in 2017 John Kelly said the White House was considering separating families to 'deter' parents from crossing the border. 

The usual Trump bashing? Yes it is for good reason as per usual.

Policy decisions aren't  binding laws .... and the US system is different from that in the UK. States have control over how they handle things like this .. States on the border with Mexico have always taken a hard line to deter people. Illegal immigrants have always faced prosecution .. the clues in the the first bit .. illegal. The difference is kids are being brought into the country a tactic that is being used in Europe. The US lacks resources at the moment to deal with the influx.

My other point stands .. you're moaning about Trump not the conditions the people are kept in ...

Obviously this doesn't happen in the UK as we keep the parents and kids together in disgusting conditions. No threads about that as there's limited Trump bashing opportunities.

merlin

If the facts are really checked and we find that the separation does not end up in really fast reuniting of children with parents, then this could be an option. Make sure first that really know what's going on...

// The names of two contractors running child detention camps are MVM Inc. and General Dynamics.

Here are the emails for General Dynamics' PR team:

lryan@generaldynamics.com
Carol.Smith@gd-ms.com
DDuBard@nassco.com
david.hench@gdbiw.com
Mark.Meudt@gdit.com
porterr@gdls.com
rafael.moreno@gdels.com
heidi.fedak@gulfstream.com
heinz.aebi@jetaviation.ch
laurie.vanbrocklin@gd-ots.com
dbarrett@gdeb.com

--

Fretwired

This is what people should be concerned about ... Human Rights Watch ... this actually breaches US law and international law.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2018/02/28/freezer/abusive-conditions-women-and-children-us-immigration-holding-cells

Kilgore

Fretwired said:

Kilgore said:

Fretwired said:

Ah .. moral outrage time. Some fact checking required here. Crossing with children is a relatively new phenomenon as people flee conflict in parts of South America. If people seeking asylum go through the right channels they are not separated. If they act illegally the adults are arrested and held in a prison/detention centre and the children are sent elsewhere.

The US is being swamped at the moment, but less than 2,000 families have been separated. Most are actually reunited after the adults have been processed. And contrary to the BBC these are not new laws and each state can implement laws as they see fit.

In the usual lets bash Trump and compare to the USA to the Nazis the real human tragedy is lost .. inadequate facilities, tents in 40 degree heat with insufficient water and sanitary facilities. This is inhuman. But then this threads about Trump bashing not people.

The UK is hardly whiter than white. Our detention centres are disgusting.

Where does the BBC article say anything about new laws? It makes it clear that this is a policy decision by Jeff Sessions. This fiasco is a result of Trump's policy to prosecute first time border crossers.

Of course it's also worth pointing out that back in 2017 John Kelly said the White House was considering separating families to 'deter' parents from crossing the border. 

The usual Trump bashing? Yes it is for good reason as per usual.

Policy decisions aren't  binding laws .... and the US system is different from that in the UK. States have control over how they handle things like this .. States on the border with Mexico have always taken a hard line to deter people. Illegal immigrants have always faced prosecution .. the clues in the the first bit .. illegal. The difference is kids are being brought into the country a tactic that is being used in Europe. The US lacks resources at the moment to deal with the influx.

My other point stands .. you're moaning about Trump not the conditions the people are kept in ...

Obviously this doesn't happen in the UK as we keep the parents and kids together in disgusting conditions. No threads about that as there's limited Trump bashing opportunities.

It seems that most of the criticism of this policy is directed at the Border Force, a federal agency. You've changed your tune from 'families fleeing conflict' to kids being brought in as a 'tactic' which is it?

  And of course you decided to cut my question of where the buck stops. 

Jalapeno

As Laura Bush has already said - it is scarily similar to the internment of Japanese nationals in WW2.

I think this isn't directly caused by the Orange One, he is trying to get Congress to fix it.

Fretwired

US State breaking the law ...

Immigrants in a jail serving four counties in Oregon recently held a hunger strike over "horrible" conditions, say activists who allege officials are breaking state law by holding people for federal immigration authorities.

The U.S. Customs and Enforcement Agency pays the Northern Oregon Regional Corrections Facility, or NORCOR, to hold detainees, according to a NORCOR budget document.

A 1987 Oregon law prohibits law enforcement officers from detaining people who are in the U.S. illegally but have not broken other laws. Gov. Kate Brown in February ordered all state agencies to follow the policy. Her office declined to comment on whether NORCOR might be violating the law.

ESBlonde

The 'big orange deal maker' always goes in hard and when you think you have lost he relents a little so you think you've won. It's schoolboy textbook real estate tactics. We've now seen the same thing time and again with this individual. He's gonna get badly burned one day!

Wolfetone

Emp_Fab said:

This is bordering on nazi-esque behaviour now.  What the fuck is wrong with him ?  This has to be stopped.  Where is the great outrage from the UN ?  This is 2018 America not 1930's Germany.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44515123

Hardly. As far as I am aware the US aren't gassing its victims yet nor are they massing at the borders of France (or Mexico). 

I think a balanced sense of proportion is always a great idea in these matters.

JezWynd

Jalapeno said:

I think this isn't directly caused by the Orange One, he is trying to get Congress to fix it.

Bollocks