Digital mixers and adjusting IEM mix from phone app ?

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Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 13537
 I’m contemplating buying a Behringer XR18 for the band as I’m fed up of struggling with only two Aux Sends that are pre-fader and just one that is post.  I could modify the mixer so all four Aux Sends were pre-fader but that’s a lot of work on a monolithic SMD board and it won’t solve my bigger problem of being constantly asked to “turn x up and y down in my ears” by everyone every ten minutes.

I’ve read that some folk use digital mixers live that give everyone the ability to control their own IEM mixes from their mobile phones.  This sounds ideal for me, but I’m concerned that the phone app interface might be too ‘fiddly’ for some in my band.  I have a hard enough time pointing out the Aux Send knobs on the mixer as it is.  If the phone app is anything more complex than a simple row of knobs or sliders I’m never going to sell the idea to them.

Could anyone advise please ?  Ta.
Birds are meant to fly free...  Open every cage you see.

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  • John_PJohn_P Frets: 1650
    It is “almost” that easy.   I regularly pass control over to a band member and let them do their own monitor mix.    
    It might take a few seconds for you to check they have the right mix on the screen and don’t switch to another mix but it’s pretty easy to run once they have done it a couple of times.  
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  • mr-macmr-mac Frets: 197
    edited June 21
    Ui24 has 6 aux sends iirc.  You can control via tablet/phone/laptop/whatever as it's a web interface (so no, oh you have a windows phone so canny get app problems).  And you give each member a login thay gets them their mix.  I really like in landscape they can adjust their mix with simple sliders. in portrait they get a "ME" slider that just adjusts their parts up/down in relation to rest so uber simple way to hear more or less of themselves.  Up to 10 logins iirc and on top of that can have a touchscreen HDMI device if wanted for sound man.  Tough laptop or good size tablet would be fine for them too. That way band members get a monitor login and can't adjust foh or anyone else's mix.

    plus good preamps, 2 inputs can be digitech amp modelling DI if amp fails (handy backup), dbx feedback and eq, digitech fx (think 4 busses) and it will even multitrack to a usb key or hdd for use in daw later (also belive it will do the virtual soundcheck thing which is invaluable if often don't have sound man).  Plus it is just like a rack mount stage box so don't need to locate where you can hear band well.

    It's what i am saving for
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 3612
    I think the XR18 has only got 6 aux sends so not going to be great for IEM's unless you like slumming it in mono ! To get a decent IEM experience and a sense of space and ambience you really need stereo which means 2 aux sends per band member
    I tend to use an iPad mini rather than my phone as the larger screen makes setting the mix easier. Whatever you do make sure each mix is locked so no one can screw up another persons mix. 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • mr-macmr-mac Frets: 197
    edited June 21
    Tell a lie, UI24 has 8 aux outs and two headphone sockets
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  • mr-macmr-mac Frets: 197
    edited June 21
    Ui24r You can stereo link aux and I belive can get a 5th stereo aux send out of one of headphone jacks
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 13537
    Danny1969 said:
    I think the XR18 has only got 6 aux sends so not going to be great for IEM's unless you like slumming it in mono ! To get a decent IEM experience and a sense of space and ambience you really need stereo which means 2 aux sends per band member
    “Slumming it in mono”   We’ve only just started using in-ears and our mixer only has 2 pre-fader aux sends and 1 post-fader.  That means that not only are we in glorious mono, we’re sharing mixes too!  Oh, the shame!!

    Yeah, independent stereo IEM mixes for each member of he band would be great, but we’re not even gigging regularly at the moment - just the odd one here and there.

    There’s five of us, so that would mean a mixer with a minimum of TEN pre-fade aux sends.  Where am I going to get that ?!


    Birds are meant to fly free...  Open every cage you see.

    https://www.peta.org/about-peta/why-peta/caged-birds/
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 3612
    edited June 21

    There’s five of us, so that would mean a mixer with a minimum of TEN pre-fade aux sends.  Where am I going to get that ?!


    QU16 is the popular one, 10 aux sends plus as many IEM monitor mixes on Cat 5 via ME1's 

    I'm joking about slumming it

    I know it's hard when your starting out, no one wants to spend money in case things don't pan out and quite rightly. I only get to use expensive stuff because the gig's themselves paid for it a long time ago. 

    A cheap way to get better control is to build yourselve a box with a pass through  \ splitter for your vocal and a basic balanced pre amp and a basic mixer section. Then throw a mic on your guitar into the box and pass your vocal through the box. Then plug in a feed from the PA. Then you have control over your vocal and guitar completely independent of the PA  .... a small mixer will accomplish exactly the same except you might need a mic splitter for the vocal pass through part. 

    Here's mine on the right of the pedal board, very handy for gigs where the supplied monitoring is suspect. Mines my own design but as I say a small mixer and a mic splitter will accomplish exactly the same thing and shouldn't cost more than £30 or so second hand 


    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 13537
    edited June 21
    I know you were joking Danny    Regarding your mixer pedal arrangement, this was what I was thinking of initially.  It’s actually why I bought my little Xenix802 and an XLR Y-cable.  I’m happy with my own IEM mix as it is straight out of Aux 2 on the ‘desk’.  What I’m not happy with is being pestered by everyone else in the band to tweak theirs all the bloody time!

    I stand next to the PA rack and know my way around it - their contribution to the sound system is to stand next to me holding their cable(s) for me to plug into the desk when we’re setting up, bitch about how long it takes to do a very quick soundcheck, blame me if anything breaks and nag me to tweak their IEM mix throughput the gig!

    If I can offload their IEM mix to them, via their phones, with a simple interface they can a) understand in two seconds flat, b) be able to access instantly and c) not be able to accidentally fuck up each other’s mixes or worse, mangle the FOH mix, then my life will be easier, and basically that is what this is all about! 

    As much as I’d love to have stereo monitor mixes galore with dual ambient stage mics etc, I’m gonna be stuck with mono for the immediate future as they are showing resistance to the idea of needing to invest in a new digital mixer at £500 ish, especially as it’s early days with this lineup and gigs are a bit sparse at present.

    I’m happy to personally invest in a mixer that will give us all stereo IEM mixes and ‘rent’ it back to them in the form of an extra few quid per gig, but I need to know the mobile phone interface is simple and solid enough that they would happily adopt it.



    *Thanks for your reply @mr-mac, I’m not ignoring you, I’m going to check out the gear you mentioned.
    Birds are meant to fly free...  Open every cage you see.

    https://www.peta.org/about-peta/why-peta/caged-birds/
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  • BigMonkaBigMonka Frets: 1512
    The QU16 mixer that Danny mentioned has got a really good app for individuals to adjust their own mixes. The main screen has 4 "thumb wheel" adjusters to raise/lower the volume. One of the wheels is "me" then you can set the others to be any group of the other channels. If you double click on each wheel it shows you the faders for the individual channels in that group. Dead easy to use after a minute or two to set it up and label it all.
    Details are here: https://www.allen-heath.com/ahproducts/qu-you/

    It's an expensive upgrade to a QU16 from an old analogue desk though. And you'll need a decent wifi router etc.

    I've only used the iOS app though, the comment that @mr-mac made about the oddballs with a windows phone may be valid!
    Always be yourself! Unless you can be Batman, in which case always be Batman.
    My boss told me "dress for the job you want, not the job you have"... now I'm sat in a disciplinary meeting dressed as Batman.
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 13537
    Thanks again everyone.  Very helpful as always.

    I’ve also just realised that the two PSM200 IEM wireless units I’ve just bought are mono anyway, so going stereo on the IEMs would require another upgrade.  I think I’m going to have to take this in stages or else it’s gonna be expensive!  I’ll invest a monkey in the band on my own but I’m not going further than that unless everyone is in equal shares.  To jump to stereo IEMs now would require a minimum mixer spec of that QU16 PLUS upgrades to PSM300 units or similar, which is going to take it well over the two grand mark.  We’ve only got a handful of gigs on the calendar so far, so I think I need to rein in my ideas a bit for the moment!

    The next step has to be a digital mixer with remote IEM mix functions though.  I can get that with the XR18 as a starting point.
    Birds are meant to fly free...  Open every cage you see.

    https://www.peta.org/about-peta/why-peta/caged-birds/
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  • robinbowesrobinbowes Frets: 1821
    Emp_Fab said:
    There’s five of us, so that would mean a mixer with a minimum of TEN pre-fade aux sends.  Where am I going to get that ?!



    I have a TF-Rack. I comes with 16 input channels and 16 outputs:
    • outputs 1-6 are configured as mono aux sends, but can be paired to give three stereo sends
    • output 7-8 is main L/R output
    • outputs 9-16 are configured as four stereo sends.
    I also have a TIO1608-D digital stage box. This adds a further 16 input channels and 16 outputs.

    Not the cheapest option though :)

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  • mr-macmr-mac Frets: 197
    Emp_Fab said:
    Danny1969 said:
    I think the XR18 has only got 6 aux sends so not going to be great for IEM's unless you like slumming it in mono ! To get a decent IEM experience and a sense of space and ambience you really need stereo which means 2 aux sends per band member
    “Slumming it in mono”   We’ve only just started using in-ears and our mixer only has 2 pre-fader aux sends and 1 post-fader.  That means that not only are we in glorious mono, we’re sharing mixes too!  Oh, the shame!!

    Yeah, independent stereo IEM mixes for each member of he band would be great, but we’re not even gigging regularly at the moment - just the odd one here and there.

    There’s five of us, so that would mean a mixer with a minimum of TEN pre-fade aux sends.  Where am I going to get that ?!


    As i posted soundcraft UI24 has 8 aux that can be stereo paired and from what i can see one of two headphone jacks can be used as 5th stereo aux ;)
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  • LewisYL7LewisYL7 Frets: 0
    We use the xr18 and there is no official behringer app for iPhone, only iPad. There is a third party one though,  that only gives you access to one aux mix. No chance of messing up FOH or anyone else’s mix and it is only faders. Can’t say for windows or android though. 

    When we first got the mixer i was I was running a wired mix by having a headphone cable run with my guitar cable. You can use the headphone out of the xr18 for one mix or a headphone amp using the xlr’s if you wanted to save some money and go the wired route. The drummer in my band still does that as he isn’t moving around. The keyboard player has also just got a P1 which adds another stereo mix and is mixed on the unit instead of the phone. 
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  • ash96ash96 Frets: 57
    We use the Mackie DL1608 and the app is very intuitive. Its super simple to lock someone into their own channel so they cant screw anyone elses up. 

    We have been looking at the Soundcraft UI24 as it has a few more aux sends, a few more channels, and also allows multitrack recording straight to USB. 

    Because of this we might end up selling our Mackie one if that was of any interest to you? Would come with a flight case too.
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  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 4284
    On the Beringer there is a simpler app call xair-q that you can setup to be much simpler than the full mixer. You could setup each band member once with the ''q' version of the app so all they have is a a few sliders and it controls only their own mix.
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 13537
    @ash96 Thanks but I’m looking for something a bit newer than the Mackie.
    Birds are meant to fly free...  Open every cage you see.

    https://www.peta.org/about-peta/why-peta/caged-birds/
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  • welshboyowelshboyo Frets: 950
    We have a DL32R Mackie and much like Ash mentions (I think its the same Master Fader App) its dead simple to use, you can lock down the view everyone has even down to channels within a view.
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  • FarleyUKFarleyUK Frets: 457
    We use the DL806 from mackie - outstanding piece of kit, it really is. Very simple to use, and you can make people's own mix controls as simple or as complex as you want (which is handy for our singer, as he isn't technical...!). Great control and really easy to use. Also uses the Master Fader app.

    Only has 4 aux outs, but the bigger version has 8 I believe. Well worth the money, it really is fantastic!
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 2098
    We use the X18 Air and have 5 mono IEM mixes, one for each of us.  This means we also have a rack case of IEM transmitters. Normally I’m against proliferating technology, but it’s been well worth it because we can all hear clearly, and there’s no monitors to feedback through the vocal mics.

    Controlling the IEM mixes has been interesting. Three of us use iPads, and the other two have iPhones. In theory we could each do our own mix, and have the desk saves the mix settings for each venue. However only the bass player and I bother to run the Behringer app. The other three call out during soundcheck if they want any changes, which then get saved. You could say that it’s technophobia. I think it’s more that, once set up for personal preferences, there aren’t a lot of changes needed.

    This weekend I finally got around to setting the EQ for my IEM channel.
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  • I am on the very cusp of getting an XR18 due to being in exactly the same position as Emp_Fab was. Just the extra ins and outs will be a godsend. 
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 2098
    I am on the very cusp of getting an XR18 
    You should budget for a wireless router too. The inbuilt WiFi isn’t reliable, and doesn’t have the security features which you need in a public environment.
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  • Roland said:
    I am on the very cusp of getting an XR18 
    You should budget for a wireless router too. The inbuilt WiFi isn’t reliable, and doesn’t have the security features which you need in a public environment.
    Thanks for the tip.  :)
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  • FarleyUKFarleyUK Frets: 457
    edited October 8
    We fairly recently got a Mackie DL806 and an Apple Airport router. Works amazingly well - I've set it so that the singer cannot mess anything up as he only has access to his own IEM mix, and myself and the drummer can alter the FoH sound as well as our own IEM mixes. Really amazing bit of kit!

    EDIT - just realised I said this earlier. It's been a long day.
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  • My band just bought a Behringer XR18 and it's a big step up in audio quality over our previous Presonus Studiolive mixer. The pre-amps are much nicer and the FX is excellent. 

    I picked up a Netgear wireless 5ghz router off ebay for around £15 and a nice little Acer laptop for around £50.

    We have the mixer and the laptop hardwired to the router via cat5 cable. That way we have the security of the hardwired connection but can also control the mixer via wifi. Getting it all setup was a breeze. Everyone in the band can now mix their own iem's. Connection was rock solid at the last gig and it sounded great out front. Very happy with the purchase.

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  • Roland said:
    We use the X18 Air and have 5 mono IEM mixes, one for each of us.  This means we also have a rack case of IEM transmitters. Normally I’m against proliferating technology, but it’s been well worth it because we can all hear clearly, and there’s no monitors to feedback through the vocal mics.

    Controlling the IEM mixes has been interesting. Three of us use iPads, and the other two have iPhones. In theory we could each do our own mix, and have the desk saves the mix settings for each venue. However only the bass player and I bother to run the Behringer app. The other three call out during soundcheck if they want any changes, which then get saved. You could say that it’s technophobia. I think it’s more that, once set up for personal preferences, there aren’t a lot of changes needed.

    This weekend I finally got around to setting the EQ for my IEM channel.
    Is it possible to have stereo mixes for IEMs?
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  • Roland said:
    We use the X18 Air and have 5 mono IEM mixes, one for each of us.  This means we also have a rack case of IEM transmitters. Normally I’m against proliferating technology, but it’s been well worth it because we can all hear clearly, and there’s no monitors to feedback through the vocal mics.

    Controlling the IEM mixes has been interesting. Three of us use iPads, and the other two have iPhones. In theory we could each do our own mix, and have the desk saves the mix settings for each venue. However only the bass player and I bother to run the Behringer app. The other three call out during soundcheck if they want any changes, which then get saved. You could say that it’s technophobia. I think it’s more that, once set up for personal preferences, there aren’t a lot of changes needed.

    This weekend I finally got around to setting the EQ for my IEM channel.
    Is it possible to have stereo mixes for IEMs?
    Yes I believe you can
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 3612
    You can have a Stereo IEM  mix by grouping 2 aux sends, so 3 stereo IEM mixs out of 6 sends

    A better way is to use a P16M, which is Behringers version of the ME-1 ........much easier to control during a gig and because it's getting a TDM stream via CAT5 your not using aux sends so can have as many stereo IEM mixes as you have P16'S  ... and at £180 ish each they aren't expensive 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 13537
    Does anyone have experience of band members controlling their IEM mixes from smartphones with the Behringer?  I've been looking at the specs and it says the WiFi can have four concurrent clients.  Is that right?  
    There's five of us!
    Birds are meant to fly free...  Open every cage you see.

    https://www.peta.org/about-peta/why-peta/caged-birds/
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  • kennedydream1980kennedydream1980 Frets: 231
    edited November 4
    Emp_Fab said:
    Does anyone have experience of band members controlling their IEM mixes from smartphones with the Behringer?  I've been looking at the specs and it says the WiFi can have four concurrent clients.  Is that right?  
    There's five of us!
    All 6 aux outs can be controlled by the App by 6 or more different devices
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 13537
    Lovely stuff.  Thanks very much.
    Birds are meant to fly free...  Open every cage you see.

    https://www.peta.org/about-peta/why-peta/caged-birds/
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