Boutique pickups and their prices

hotpickups

lonestar said:

zepp76 said:

I received a pair of Monty's mini humbuckers today that cost £255 and have to say a portion of that had to cover the extraordinarily posh packaging! It was quite the ceremony opening it up.

Matts quality, attention to detail and reputation makes his pickups worth every penny. Overall, he has an amazing product.

hotpickups said:

zepp76 said:

I received a pair of Monty's mini humbuckers today that cost £255 and have to say a portion of that had to cover the extraordinarily posh packaging! It was quite the ceremony opening it up.

Precisely. As mentioned I work in the advertising business and know how much of that opening ceremony is important and gives the perception of value. At the end of the day though I'd reckon they'll sound great to the average ear like all the other boutique pickups out there. I just feel there's a ceiling and for me personally £270 would be it for me. Anything above that is just snake oil and perception etc. As mentioned to I'm not the target audience obviously

It’s not a perception of value. It sets the scene for what should be the result of a good purchase from a UK based pickup winder. 

You say “At the end of the day though I'd reckon they'll sound great to the average ear like all the other boutique pickups out there.”

So will a £300 guitar compared to a £3000. A non guitar player won’t know the difference. But why does that matter. It’s your tone journey, not theirs. 

This is a pretty futile topic tbh. You can ask “why is that (insert price)? What makes it better?” to virtually anything at all. You’ve admitted you’re not in the target market for anything over £90 a pickup because anything more is piss in the wind. 

If you work in advertising you must have had meetings with clients who want to get across the message of quality based on how good their product is? You’ll probably have had clients who know their product is based more around selling more for less profit as opposed to less with more profit. 

Any one who makes a product, on their own, in their workshop with their own two hands can set the prices that they want to charge. It’s entirely up to them. If they know they’ve got a good product then that’s half the battle. The next part is up to the potential customer to pay the price or shop elsewhere.


Cost of materials
Overheads
R and D
Packaging
VAT/Tax
Advertising
Marketing

You pay for all of that when you buy any pickup.... or anything for that matter.

I'm paying more than £90 a pickup by the way

gringopig

.

ThorpyFX

hotpickups said:

ThorpyFX said:

hotpickups said:

zepp76 said:

I received a pair of Monty's mini humbuckers today that cost £255 and have to say a portion of that had to cover the extraordinarily posh packaging! It was quite the ceremony opening it up.

Precisely. As mentioned I work in the advertising business and know how much of that opening ceremony is important and gives the perception of value. At the end of the day though I'd reckon they'll sound great to the average ear like all the other boutique pickups out there. I just feel there's a ceiling and for me personally £270 would be it for me. Anything above that is just snake oil and perception etc. As mentioned to I'm not the target audience obviously

you are at risk of being SHITEPICKUPS again!!!!

on a serious note. I have several sets of boutique pickups in guitars.... come and visit. play them - be informed.

I'm not saying they're bad Adrian I just don't get why they vary in price. If money wasn't a problem I'd probably go for the wizz or throbaks. In the meantime I would never be able to justify it to myself to buy them. I know what boutique pickups I'm going for that'll suit my pocket etc. I'm just interested to hear what others feel about paying that kind of money. I am allowed - it's a forum ?

Of course you are allowed. But you have already written them off and you’ve never tried them. I am happy to justify the price of something if it fits my needs, fits in my budget and I have tried them. This goes for anything - guitars, cars, motorbikes, pickups.

what I don’t do is say “nope not for me” based on having never tried them and based on the fact that in the same market segment something cheaper is available.

if you work in advertising, you must be part of this problem. It’s advertisers bread and butter to increase a products worth based on bullshit. The only way to cut through it is to try these things.

p.s I haven’t tried wizz pickups, so I have no idea if they are “worth it”

Schnozz

I'm happy with Duncans...

mbe

The price of admission is set high to keep out the riff-raff.

vale

to answer the OPs post heading question...

because he can (ask that much for it) and because there are enough people willing to pay that much for it (because they can).
in summary, because that's its essential 'commodity value' (economics jargon).

the intrinsic value of the materials + labour + promo (costs) don't have to be in anyway related to the asking price. in a capitalist market economy, desire, supply & demand dictate value, above any intrinsic material value.

drivers behind the consumers' desire will be all sorts of things.

some will perceive (or imagine they percieve) genuine objective techincal worth, or subjective tonal qualities, that they consider to have a value equivalent to the relative price difference between that and other brands.
some will be motivated by subjective personal things that are little to do with the item itself & more to do with their own issues; insecurity/low self-esteem, desire for peergroup approval, self-reward-reflex (i deserve an upgrade, i have worked 60 hours this week, etc).

it's the same old same old. each to their own. as long as no one is getting exploited or abused by this business (which doesn't seem to be the case) then i don't have a major issue with it.
a lot of so-called business is exploitation & abuse. that's what i get stressed about. eg, asian kids who should be in school & enjoying childhood making high value trainers for a penny a day. or village water supplies redirected away from people & towards factories.

personally speaking, fancy designer musical kit is a game i'm not into. having not much money means i have to be totally ruthless about new things. unless i can hear significant subjective quality differences, or perceive significant material quality differences, between the item in question and something less expensive, i don't buy. £300 is a 'best' guitar or bass to me, not a single pickup.
but my situation is different to someone else's. if you own your own home and make a decent living, then it's potentially a different equation with a different conclusion.
& it's nice to have nice things. i buy make-up & perfume (modestly priced but hardly essentials), so am not lecturing in my hair shirt.

ultimately business is business, & since 'the anarcho-syndicalist communal ownership party' is not a force to be reckoned with at the british ballot box (this time next year?), this is the way things are.

another 3am essay!

gringopig

.

hotpickups

ThorpyFX said:

hotpickups said:

ThorpyFX said:

hotpickups said:

zepp76 said:

I received a pair of Monty's mini humbuckers today that cost £255 and have to say a portion of that had to cover the extraordinarily posh packaging! It was quite the ceremony opening it up.

Precisely. As mentioned I work in the advertising business and know how much of that opening ceremony is important and gives the perception of value. At the end of the day though I'd reckon they'll sound great to the average ear like all the other boutique pickups out there. I just feel there's a ceiling and for me personally £270 would be it for me. Anything above that is just snake oil and perception etc. As mentioned to I'm not the target audience obviously

you are at risk of being SHITEPICKUPS again!!!!

on a serious note. I have several sets of boutique pickups in guitars.... come and visit. play them - be informed.

I'm not saying they're bad Adrian I just don't get why they vary in price. If money wasn't a problem I'd probably go for the wizz or throbaks. In the meantime I would never be able to justify it to myself to buy them. I know what boutique pickups I'm going for that'll suit my pocket etc. I'm just interested to hear what others feel about paying that kind of money. I am allowed - it's a forum ?

Of course you are allowed. But you have already written them off and you’ve never tried them. I am happy to justify the price of something if it fits my needs, fits in my budget and I have tried them. This goes for anything - guitars, cars, motorbikes, pickups.

what I don’t do is say “nope not for me” based on having never tried them and based on the fact that in the same market segment something cheaper is available.

if you work in advertising, you must be part of this problem. It’s advertisers bread and butter to increase a products worth based on bullshit. The only way to cut through it is to try these things.

p.s I haven’t tried wizz pickups, so I have no idea if they are “worth it”

Let's get this straight. I never said I'd written them off. I'd love a set but as mentioned I could never justify to myself buying a set. What is clearly misunderstood in my thread is I am simply amazed at the prices of some of these pickups. It's not rocket science and they all use the same technology / design. I fear some of it is in danger of moving into the 'snake oil' arena which I know exists around stuff. It's that part I avoid letting myself get fooled by.

As for my advertising experience comments of course I know how the game works but I don't always agree with it but yes I know how to turn some cogs as part of the bigger machine. 

I'm feeling I wish I never started this damn thread now.

soma1975

I work in video production. I like to think I'm very good value for money, although to a lot of people at first glance I seem very expensive. It's only after someone has done a job with me or  done a job with the 'on paper' cheap proposition that the value begins to be clearer. 

At the same time I don't overcharge. I just charge what I feel is a fair reflection of my skills and experience plus the equipment I'll be bringing to a shoot. 

The value of my OX4s became self evident very soon - the sting of paying more for them than I would some Dimarzios disappeared very quickly... 

hotpickups

vale said:

to answer the OPs post heading question...

because he can (ask that much for it) and because there are enough people willing to pay that much for it (because they can).
in summary, because that's its essential 'commodity value' (economics jargon).

the intrinsic value of the materials + labour + promo (costs) don't have to be in anyway related to the asking price. in a capitalist market economy, desire, supply & demand dictate value, above any intrinsic material value.

drivers behind the consumers' desire will be all sorts of things.

some will perceive (or imagine they percieve) genuine objective techincal worth, or subjective tonal qualities, that they consider to have a value equivalent to the relative price difference between that and other brands.
some will be motivated by subjective personal things that are little to do with the item itself & more to do with their own issues; insecurity/low self-esteem, desire for peergroup approval, self-reward-reflex (i deserve an upgrade, i have worked 60 hours this week, etc).

it's the same old same old. each to their own. as long as no one is getting exploited or abused by this business (which doesn't seem to be the case) then i don't have a major issue with it.
a lot of so-called business is exploitation & abuse. that's what i get stressed about. eg, asian kids who should be in school & enjoying childhood making high value trainers for a penny a day. or village water supplies redirected away from people & towards factories.

personally speaking, fancy designer musical kit is a game i'm not into. having not much money means i have to be totally ruthless about new things. unless i can hear significant subjective quality differences, or perceive significant material quality differences, between the item in question and something less expensive, i don't buy. £300 is a 'best' guitar or bass to me, not a single pickup.
but my situation is different to someone else's. if you own your own home and make a decent living, then it's potentially a different equation with a different conclusion.
& it's nice to have nice things. i buy make-up & perfume (modestly priced but hardly essentials), so am not lecturing in my hair shirt.

ultimately business is business, & since 'the anarcho-syndicalist communal ownership party' is not a force to be reckoned with at the british ballot box (this time next year?), this is the way things are.

another 3am essay!

That is a spot on answer that I can totally take on board @vale . I applaud you for being so coherent and concise for a 3am posting  I actually enjoyed reading that 

WezV

You are also paying a  1st world experts wages.

i bet he earns less per hour than a lot of people on here do.

pricing them high might mean he can justify taking the time to do it right and meet his USP.  He might be able to make twice as many, twice as fast for half the labour cost.... but something would likely need to change.

hotpickups

soma1975 said:

I work in video production. I like to think I'm very good value for money, although to a lot of people at first glance I seem very expensive. It's only after someone has done a job with me or  done a job with the 'on paper' cheap proposition that the value begins to be clearer. 

At the same time I don't overcharge. I just charge what I feel is a fair reflection of my skills and experience plus the equipment I'll be bringing to a shoot. 

The value of my OX4s became self evident very soon - the sting of paying more for them than I would some Dimarzios disappeared very quickly... 

Totally agree. I get that with my skills or the devaluing of them by some people I quote for. They can just see the final figure without the actual work that has gone into it which they may not have seen. Also the years of experience accrued knowing what works and what doesn't etc.

im glad you like the OX4s @soma1975 ;because that is the set I'm going for. What spec did you get I.e. covered, magnets etc.

soma1975

Alnico 4 low wind nickel aged covers. Sound fab. 

hotpickups

soma1975 said:

Alnico 4 low wind nickel aged covers. Sound fab. 

That is the exact spec I'm going for. If I was going to go for the 4 wire Mark advised maybe going for a medium wind. 2 wire I think is suffice on this occasion though  

ThorpyFX

hotpickups said:

ThorpyFX said:

hotpickups said:

ThorpyFX said:

hotpickups said:

zepp76 said:

I received a pair of Monty's mini humbuckers today that cost £255 and have to say a portion of that had to cover the extraordinarily posh packaging! It was quite the ceremony opening it up.

Precisely. As mentioned I work in the advertising business and know how much of that opening ceremony is important and gives the perception of value. At the end of the day though I'd reckon they'll sound great to the average ear like all the other boutique pickups out there. I just feel there's a ceiling and for me personally £270 would be it for me. Anything above that is just snake oil and perception etc. As mentioned to I'm not the target audience obviously

you are at risk of being SHITEPICKUPS again!!!!

on a serious note. I have several sets of boutique pickups in guitars.... come and visit. play them - be informed.

I'm not saying they're bad Adrian I just don't get why they vary in price. If money wasn't a problem I'd probably go for the wizz or throbaks. In the meantime I would never be able to justify it to myself to buy them. I know what boutique pickups I'm going for that'll suit my pocket etc. I'm just interested to hear what others feel about paying that kind of money. I am allowed - it's a forum ?

Of course you are allowed. But you have already written them off and you’ve never tried them. I am happy to justify the price of something if it fits my needs, fits in my budget and I have tried them. This goes for anything - guitars, cars, motorbikes, pickups.

what I don’t do is say “nope not for me” based on having never tried them and based on the fact that in the same market segment something cheaper is available.

if you work in advertising, you must be part of this problem. It’s advertisers bread and butter to increase a products worth based on bullshit. The only way to cut through it is to try these things.

p.s I haven’t tried wizz pickups, so I have no idea if they are “worth it”

Let's get this straight. I never said I'd written them off. I'd love a set but as mentioned I could never justify to myself buying a set. What is clearly misunderstood in my thread is I am simply amazed at the prices of some of these pickups. It's not rocket science and they all use the same technology / design. I fear some of it is in danger of moving into the 'snake oil' arena which I know exists around stuff. It's that part I avoid letting myself get fooled by.

As for my advertising experience comments of course I know how the game works but I don't always agree with it but yes I know how to turn some cogs as part of the bigger machine. 

I'm feeling I wish I never started this damn thread now.

Sorry, it’s just a misinterpretation of the term “written off”  what I mean is that as you stated above, based on the price you could never justify buying a set, I.e you have written them off your list because you percieve they charge too much. As for snake oil... This is generally a term used for describing disreputable sales copy, ie the item contains magic pixie dust. 

I dont think any any of these companies mentioned use “snake” oil to describe their products, however as I offered above, you are more than welcome to come and try four  guitars I have. 

One has ox4s, one has montys, one has haussels and one has real pafs.

soma1975

hotpickups said:

soma1975 said:

Alnico 4 low wind nickel aged covers. Sound fab. 

That is the exact spec I'm going for. If I was going to go for the 4 wire Mark advised maybe going for a medium wind. 2 wire I think is suffice on this occasion though  

I got 4-wire ones made and got a tech to wire me a push-pull phase pot for when the Peter Green mood takes me. 

hotpickups

ThorpyFX said:

hotpickups said:

ThorpyFX said:

hotpickups said:

ThorpyFX said:

hotpickups said:

zepp76 said:

I received a pair of Monty's mini humbuckers today that cost £255 and have to say a portion of that had to cover the extraordinarily posh packaging! It was quite the ceremony opening it up.

Precisely. As mentioned I work in the advertising business and know how much of that opening ceremony is important and gives the perception of value. At the end of the day though I'd reckon they'll sound great to the average ear like all the other boutique pickups out there. I just feel there's a ceiling and for me personally £270 would be it for me. Anything above that is just snake oil and perception etc. As mentioned to I'm not the target audience obviously

you are at risk of being SHITEPICKUPS again!!!!

on a serious note. I have several sets of boutique pickups in guitars.... come and visit. play them - be informed.

I'm not saying they're bad Adrian I just don't get why they vary in price. If money wasn't a problem I'd probably go for the wizz or throbaks. In the meantime I would never be able to justify it to myself to buy them. I know what boutique pickups I'm going for that'll suit my pocket etc. I'm just interested to hear what others feel about paying that kind of money. I am allowed - it's a forum ?

Of course you are allowed. But you have already written them off and you’ve never tried them. I am happy to justify the price of something if it fits my needs, fits in my budget and I have tried them. This goes for anything - guitars, cars, motorbikes, pickups.

what I don’t do is say “nope not for me” based on having never tried them and based on the fact that in the same market segment something cheaper is available.

if you work in advertising, you must be part of this problem. It’s advertisers bread and butter to increase a products worth based on bullshit. The only way to cut through it is to try these things.

p.s I haven’t tried wizz pickups, so I have no idea if they are “worth it”

Let's get this straight. I never said I'd written them off. I'd love a set but as mentioned I could never justify to myself buying a set. What is clearly misunderstood in my thread is I am simply amazed at the prices of some of these pickups. It's not rocket science and they all use the same technology / design. I fear some of it is in danger of moving into the 'snake oil' arena which I know exists around stuff. It's that part I avoid letting myself get fooled by.

As for my advertising experience comments of course I know how the game works but I don't always agree with it but yes I know how to turn some cogs as part of the bigger machine. 

I'm feeling I wish I never started this damn thread now.

Sorry, it’s just a misinterpretation of the term “written off”  what I mean is that as you stated above, based on the price you could never justify buying a set, I.e you have written them off your list because you percieve they charge too much. As for snake oil... This is generally a term used for describing disreputable sales copy, ie the item contains magic pixie dust. 

I dont think any any of these companies mentioned use “snake” oil to describe their products, however as I offered above, you are more than welcome to come and try four  guitars I have. 

One has ox4s, one has montys, one has haussels and one has real pafs.

Wow the magic trio. I think I may have to take you up on that offer Adrian  

hotpickups

soma1975 said:

hotpickups said:

soma1975 said:

Alnico 4 low wind nickel aged covers. Sound fab. 

That is the exact spec I'm going for. If I was going to go for the 4 wire Mark advised maybe going for a medium wind. 2 wire I think is suffice on this occasion though  

I got 4-wire ones made and got a tech to wire me a push-pull phase pot for when the Peter Green mood takes me. 

Nice I've got my monty's wired like that at the moment

zepp76

hotpickups said:

soma1975 said:

Alnico 4 low wind nickel aged covers. Sound fab. 

That is the exact spec I'm going for. If I was going to go for the 4 wire Mark advised maybe going for a medium wind. 2 wire I think is suffice on this occasion though  

That's the spec I chose for mine too, wonderful pickups and well worth their asking price. The Burstbuckers in my Standard just weren't cutting it and the OX4's have turned an ok sounding guitar into a very nice sounding guitar. 

designerseye88

Like any product that goes to market their is whole load of research and development that goes into making it, This involves alot of time and testing. With regards to pickups their is a plethora of options of all prices. Wizz for example are not cheap but they are by no means the most expensive boutique pickup either. 
I think as consumers we often underestimate the time and skill required to develop products. Many luthiers for example have spent countless hours perfecting their art and pickup builders alike have spent a long time getting a pickup which for them best reflects 'the sound'. 
I think im right in saying that the chap who creates Wizz pickups uses an original winding machine that Gibson used in the 50's and occasionally finds the original copper wire Gibson used back then. These things may or may not be a direct influence on a pickups sound but they do require alot of time and investment to find and buy so that does need to be factored in.