Men's Shirts - a Minor Whinge

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randellarandella Frets: 4088
I have a collection of nice formal shirts, unfortunately at the moment there's only one in there that fits.  Since I have a second interview today I went on autopilot into Marks and bought a nice crisp, white cotton shirt.  Thirty quid.  Job done.

Two of the same grudges that I've been harbouring for years:

1) solve the plastic crisis overnight - buy unpacked shirts.  Are we as men so soft in the head that we can't envision what a buttoned-up work shirt looks like without half a kilo of cardboard and plastic stiffeners?  At least they've stopped strategically hiding pins in them I suppose.

2) I'm six feet, reasonably slim, wear a 16 1/2" collar.  According to ye olde shirt sizing algorithm, I should have a 40" waist, a chest like a gorilla, and arms that end somewhere near my ankles.

Well that feels better anyway :)
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Comments

  • Moe_ZambeekMoe_Zambeek Frets: 3419
    Buying at M&S is the problem - their shirts just aren’t as good as they used to be. Odd sizing too these days.
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    Similar situation for me.
    I have broad shoulders and every off the peg shirt is a huge tent of a thing around the waist.

    Find yourself a tailor and either have your shirts custom made, or buy off the leg and have them taken in.
    Budget for £100-150 per shirt.
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  • randellarandella Frets: 4088
    Buying at M&S is the problem - their shirts just aren’t as good as they used to be. Odd sizing too these days.
    As my current work uniform is jeans and a t-shirt I was kinda loth to do what I used to do and drop £100 on a selection at TM Lewin on the off-chance of nailing this job - plus there isn't one on the way home :)

    It's not just Marks though, I've always found it ludicrous that shirts are fitted solely by the collar size.

    You're right though, they have gone a bit odd.  They used to be the gold standard.
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  • fandangofandango Frets: 2204
    Since discovering Charles Tyrwhitt and Hawes & Curtis shirts, never looked back.
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 9794
    Try either Jacamo or Tyrwhitt. My sizing problem is probably not the same as yours (I'm a fat shortarse) but these people do seem to have more options than M&S.

    OTOH I think it's easier to get oversquare trousers from M&S (ie bore aka waist > stroke aka leg) ...
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
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  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 9654
    M&S clothes are made for the average male of a certain age shape, that's why you have a big surplus at the belly area. In normal clothes I'm a small in there but have bought XS on occasion - a medium at best everywhere else.

    Any shop that is worth its salt will allow you to try on sample shirts in the various sizes and fits. I have large shoulders and a tiny waist (29") so have to compromise similarly on what will fit. Ie it doesn't fit anywhere, but almost fits one way or another for each bit (collar too small, waist too big etc). On average my size seems to be 15.5" collar, but usually I can't properly do it up yet the belly and waist area is billowing. If I need to be able to do the collar up and I can't hide it with the tie, I'd buy a size up but get a fitted one, or even a "muscle" fit. I'm hilariously un-muscley by the way but they fit the shoulders.

    On the flipside, often a size down of "regular" fit is also adequate, if you don't need to button up the top.

    Don't be fooled by the name Slim Fit, it's not necessarily made for slim people it's the shirt that is slimmer (left to right, not the belly billow)

    PS budget £100 per shirt?! That would be at least £1000 a year for me on shirts (I tend to have 10 at a time, ie two weeks worth, replace once a year), with a budget of £100 for a shirt I don't imagine it's difficult to get one. It's a bit like saying "My Fiat is a bit slow, I should get a Ferrari!"
    Please note my communication is not very good, so please be patient with me
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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 11262
    In the past I've bought formal shirts from Thomas Pink (only in the sale they are expensive but man they're fantastic) and Charles Tyrwhitt. I would never buy a formal shirt from M&S again, why buy an averaged-out size when you can get a more customised fit?
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  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 9654
    scrumhalf said:
    In the past I've bought formal shirts from Thomas Pink (only in the sale they are expensive but man they're fantastic) and Charles Tyrwhitt. I would never buy a formal shirt from M&S again, why buy an averaged-out size when you can get a more customised fit?

    I've got three Tyrwhitt and two TM Lewin waiting to be opened though so will be interesting to see which last longer. Had Tyrwhitt ones in the past which were lovely with very soft material but unfortunately they were a bit flashy and I looked like I was going to a wedding rather than sat in an office. These ones are just plain so hopefully should be more appropriate!
    Please note my communication is not very good, so please be patient with me
    soundcloud.com/thecolourbox-1
    youtube.com/@TheColourboxMusic
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  • Musicman20Musicman20 Frets: 2296
    I but from Next and the amount of packaging is INSANE! Just fold them up! No need for all the faff. 
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  • randellarandella Frets: 4088
    Ordinarily it's not a problem.  The TM Lewin shirts sized to fit my body instead of my neck are fine, I've not had to wear a tie at work for probably 15 years.  But interview=full monty.  It's the law.

    I've just put this new one on again and you could get 1.5 of me in here.

    @Phil_aka_Pip - lol at 'oversquare'.  Biker's reference, I'm guessing?
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 9794
    randella said:
    Ordinarily it's not a problem.  The TM Lewin shirts sized to fit my body instead of my neck are fine, I've not had to wear a tie at work for probably 15 years.  But interview=full monty.  It's the law.

    I've just put this new one on again and you could get 1.5 of me in here.

    @Phil_aka_Pip - lol at 'oversquare'.  Biker's reference, I'm guessing?
    well, yes, but probably more engine design in general. Modern cars also have oversquare engines.

    I recently had an interview, wore my favourite grandad shirt. 2 of the 3 guys who interviewed me weren't wearing ties.

    best interview I had was with a bloke wearing a ripped faded red t shirt, scruffy white trainers, faded jeans with his knees poking through, and looking like he hadn't shaved for 4 days. at the time I wasn't wearing a tie either but I felt well toshed up compared to him. decided he could have been the kind of bloke I didn't mind working for.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
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  • GarthyGarthy Frets: 2268
    Lol at Oversquare.

    Almost all of my shirts are from Next or Topman, the cut is damn near perfect.
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  • CHRISB50CHRISB50 Frets: 4287
    octatonic said:
    Similar situation for me.
    I have broad shoulders and every off the peg shirt is a huge tent of a thing around the waist.

    Find yourself a tailor and either have your shirts custom made, or buy off the leg and have them taken in.
    Budget for £100-150 per shirt.

    Yep.


    I have a 15.5 inch collar for which the standard block measurement is around 40 inch on the waist, which is fucking ridiculous, unless you're fat. Also they never fit properly on the cuffs.


    I don't think people understand how a shirt should fit properly (same as a suit) until they've had one made for them. Problem is that once you do it's difficult to go back. Can be an expensive business.


    Not sure why you're receiving LOL's for a perfectly sensible answer.

    I can't help about the shape I'm in, I can't sing I ain't pretty and my legs are thin

    But don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you want me to

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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 9794
    CHRISB50 said:

    Not sure why you're receiving LOL's for a perfectly sensible answer.

    Probably something to do with the budget, which seems a bit high to me. Well, it's more than I usually spend anyway. It may not be too much if you require a top quality solution. Bit like a Les Paul user telling someone who's used to playing £250 guitars that anything above £2k is an acceptable price for a guitar.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • EricTheWearyEricTheWeary Frets: 16253
    My longest serving shirt came from Primark. Worn hundreds of times I sort of want it to die.
     I don't normally need formal shirts so for something like a funeral or job interview I have a couple of old faithfuls that I put with the fit for a day which depends on how fat I currently am. 
    Tipton is a small fishing village in the borough of Sandwell. 
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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 11262
    A friend has a company that provides domestic cleaning services, among them a laundry. Her opinions about TM Lewin's collars are not very good at all.

    I also never liked their shirts because they didn't do a 34' sleeve length.
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  • CHRISB50CHRISB50 Frets: 4287
    CHRISB50 said:

    Not sure why you're receiving LOL's for a perfectly sensible answer.

    Probably something to do with the budget, which seems a bit high to me. Well, it's more than I usually spend anyway. It may not be too much if you require a top quality solution. Bit like a Les Paul user telling someone who's used to playing £250 guitars that anything above £2k is an acceptable price for a guitar.

    It's still a perfectly sensible answer. The OP didn't mention a budget. Just that he wants a shirt that fits properly.


    Unless you're a really weird shape, you won't fit an OTP shirt.


    The value is actually really good with tailored clothing. Cost of labour is actually quite cheap compared to most industries. It's just the time that it takes to properly make something that raises the price.


    The killer with most shirt makers is that they will have a minimum order of 5-6 shirts, so it is quite a big outlay initially.

    I can't help about the shape I'm in, I can't sing I ain't pretty and my legs are thin

    But don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you want me to

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  • ESBlondeESBlonde Frets: 3576

    Another fan of CT Shirts here.

    I have the benifit of a 19.5" collar size, I have reasonably large shoulders but suprising not that much of a beer gut (still fat though innit). So Off the peg shirts in my collar size are a) not stocked, b) too short and won't stay tucked in, c) Made by a tent maker and of epic proportions.

    I recently took youngest lad into Cambridge to fit him out with decent shoes and shirt. CT shirts came up trumps with 5 shirts for £135. Since they actually had them that fitted me I had four for work and son had one. Beat the crap out of the shirt I bought at M&S earlier this year in a bit of a hurry, and cheaper too!
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    CHRISB50 said:
    octatonic said:
    Similar situation for me.
    I have broad shoulders and every off the peg shirt is a huge tent of a thing around the waist.

    Find yourself a tailor and either have your shirts custom made, or buy off the leg and have them taken in.
    Budget for £100-150 per shirt.

    Yep.


    I have a 15.5 inch collar for which the standard block measurement is around 40 inch on the waist, which is fucking ridiculous, unless you're fat. Also they never fit properly on the cuffs.


    I don't think people understand how a shirt should fit properly (same as a suit) until they've had one made for them. Problem is that once you do it's difficult to go back. Can be an expensive business.


    Not sure why you're receiving LOL's for a perfectly sensible answer.

    It will be price.

    People here will happily spend £5k on a guitar but £150 for a shirt seems excessive.
    Typical musicians, basically.... :)
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    Or maybe because I wrote ‘off the leg’.
    Stupid iPad.
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