My ESP/Navigator LP has ruined other 'normal' guitars for me

LaCathedrale_UK

A few weeks ago I imported a 2004 Navigator N-LP-STD - essentially a Gibson VOS '58 (IMO better, but I would say that having dumped the money on it) with assistance from @brooom ;;

While it was en-route I sold my other gear and spent the whole intervening period playing my Edwards P90-equipped LP and thought it was excellent. I couldn't get enough of it and when the Navigator arrived and I A/B tested them I couldn't see much in it at all - to say I was a little underwhelmed was an understatement.

I decided to spend some time with the Navi and see how it panned out and we came to gel really quickly. The neck profile is perfect, the action great, the pickups with loads of dynamic range and set up perfectly (thanks to @FelineGuitars ) and I can't put it down.

Today was the first day I picked up my Edwards and I was aghast - certainly it's a good guitar, but not even remotely in the same league in fit and finish, playability or sound. My acoustic - same feeling, and certainly my old LP.

Gosh, I think I may have raised the bar too high (both in quality and financial implication-  maybe I need to upgrade this Edwards P90 to a Navigator Goldtop!) HA!

tone1

I’m not normally a Les Paul player but my Navigator P90 Goldtop fits like a glove... I don’t know anything about them but I know I love it..

https://i.imgur.com/bq5vln7.jpg

tone1

I want to swap the tuners back to original though...

https://i.imgur.com/rJfPmwG.jpg

LaCathedrale_UK

Wow, lovely - where'd you get that?

tone1

I picked it up locally in a trade with the lovely @pumkin  

John_A

No financial implication, simply dont buy any more guitars, be happy you have 'the one'

brooom

They certainly are pretty special guitars. I have sold all my gibson custom shops and will even be selling my Crews Les pauls which are at a pretty high standard themselves.

I really like the way the navigators respond to my playing so I'm done when it comes for looking for les pauls.

Enjoy yours and keep an eye out for the japanese proxy auction services or ebay. You might find a nice one with P90s as I recently did from Denmark.

I quite like this one that just came up for sale, but I already have my count:

https://www.rinkya.com/en/auction-o244154273?dollar=part

LaCathedrale_UK

I found that getting the authorisation on Rinkya to be a huge pain. Any tips?

brooom

What do you mean by authorization? I've bought lot's of guitars from them, they're a bit on the expensive side regarding fees, but communication, shipping and handling is 5 stars. I've never seen a better packaged guitar.

LaCathedrale_UK

I need to preauthorise my account with a payment up to $x before they will let me bid on something of that value, it got flagged as fraud by my bank.

Funkfingers

LaCathedrale_UK said:

Navigator ... set up perfectly (thanks to FelineGuitars)

... picked up my Edwards and I was aghast

SUGGESTION #1) Perhaps, the Edwards deserves the attentions of Feline Guitars?

SUGGESTION #2) Vive la difference.

I have two P90-equiped Les Pauls of different construction and price but with similar pickups. They sound and ride differently to each other. Rather than expect them to be directly interchangeable, I use each for what it does better.

brooom

LaCathedrale_UK said:

I need to preauthorise my account with a payment up to $x before they will let me bid on something of that value, it got flagged as fraud by my bank.

That's odd, regarding the payment limits, I found that talking to one of the support people on the chat at the bottom right of the screen was enough to raise the amount I could bid on without any issues.

Regard the bank, I've paid with both paypal and transferwise on rinkya, no issues raised by the bank.

Regarding @Funkfingers suggestion, I realise you have now been spoiled with Navigators, but actually Edwards are nice guitars, so the idea of maybe giving it the same treatment as you did the navigator could actually yield pretty satisfying results. Maybe install some seymour duncan antiquities P90s in the edwards as well.

LaCathedrale_UK

Indeed, maybe that'll be worth a shot. (re: feline tuning up the Edwards). It's already got the SD Vintage P90's in there, are the antiquities significantly better? I'll try the Rinkya support option too - luckily no P90 navigators there!

LaCathedrale_UK

Maybe put a heavy set of strings on it, and tune it down for some Sabbath-style doom.

Funkfingers

LaCathedrale_UK said:

[the Edwards has] already got the SD Vintage P90's in there, are the antiquities significantly better?

Yeah but no but ...

The difference lies in the details. Some of the difference is cosmetic (fake ageing) and some of it is the bar magnet choices.

It is possible to get an SP90-1 to sound more like an Antiquity by swapping one or both of its bar magnets to A2, A3 or A4.

If the Edwards guitar lacks some of the mechanical/acoustic sustain of the Navigator, it may be possible to compensate for this with a hotter bridge position pickup. I *borrow* the PRS McCarty Soapbar model idea of using a Duncan SP90-3N for this purpose.

If you fancy a humbucker tone in a guitar routed for P90s, there is a Creamery pickup listed in the Parts £ section.

Limehouse_Blues

Anyone looking for a really high quality P90 equipped gold top LP should check out the Tokai LS1 R4 if buying new.

https://www.faberguitar.com/Tokai-LS1-R4-GT-Reborn-Old_1

Mine is the best feeling and best playing P90 equipped LP I’ve ever played - including a bunch of 50s examples which smashed it the intangible mojo department but had nothing on it in terms of fit, finish, feel or sound.

I’ve played an Edwards P90 GT and remember that it weighed a ton and was sonically not that vital.

Hydra19

I had the same experience with Navigators. Ended up getting a P90 Goldtop back in 2014 and I was totally amazed. The honeymoon period just kept on going with me learning all kinds of new music to play on this beauty. It sounded SO good I just kept on playing and it made me a better player. I have had 3 more Navigators since then but sold one. The only other guitar I have purchased since then that is not a Navigator was a Fender Custom Shop Strat.....months later I got a Navigator strat for half the price of the Custom Shop and it totally smokes it! It´s the only guitar I have never had to setup in anyway,  it was and still is absolutely perfect to play with such low action, it´s just over 1mm across the strings but no buzzing. It has ´nibs´ over the fret ends for extra smooth feel.

I had an LP Custom that I didn´t get along with, probably the ebony board. I have a flametop Navigator from the 80´s which is just as good as the Goldtop Les Paul. 

I´m really glad to have these, as they are just so nice to play, sound and look great. The grain on the Strat almost looks like ash, and the guitar cannot weigh more than 3.2kg. 

I have confidence buying Navigators, every guitar has impressed me, and it´s no wonder I always go for Navigators over others. My Navias have been quite cheap, considering what they sell for new, and considering their high end specs, similar speced guitars from better known brands are more expensive .

So I´d say I´m in the Navigators have ruined other brands for me. The thing is, I really like Mosrite guitars and Fender Jaguars, but Navigator don´t make those models so I have to settle for the originals. Actually, they have just started making Jaguars and Jazzmaster but are still new enough that there isn´t any 2nd hand ones on sale in Japan yet.  Knowing how much I love my Fender Jaguar, I can only imagine what a Navigator Jaguar could be like but I would buy it without trying with no hesitations.

If you can try a Navigator do it, I haven´t played so many Les Pauls, but I have had Grecos, Orville by Gibsons, and Burny´s and the 2 Navigator Les Pauls I have are the 2 best Les Pauls I have ever played in my life. And the Strat is the same, I don´t think I will ever find another guitar that plays so well. I have measured the relief and the neck is too straight, and the action is too low to make sense, but playing it defies numbers, it feels great with no buzz. Love Navigators!

brooom

Yep, pretty much the same experience over here with my Navigator Les pauls and with the ESP Horizon original that I just bought. ESP know how to do guitars.

atm1991

Don’t mean to resurrect the dead but saw this discussion and just wanted to give another vote confidence to Navigator! Recently returned from a trip to Japan with a 2013 N-LP-480 in Lemon Drop and the thing is just stunning. Still had the plastic on the back covers and only a few very minor dings (white marks on the edges of the body due to the satin in the nitro) around the edges. Had a chance to play it side-by-side with another 2013 in Honey Sunburst which was also interesting. I’d originally gone to U-Box in Ochanomizu planning to buy the Honey Sunburst as I’d seen it on their website. When I got there, it was next to the Lemon Drop which wasn’t on the site. The Honey Sunburst was lighter at 9.1lb, compared to the one I bought which is 9.85lb. I felt horribly conflicted because of the whole “lighter is better” thing, but sonically it was no contest. The lighter one sounded a bit lifeless by comparison and didn’t resonate acoustically like the heavier one did. Had the missus with me who isn’t a guitar player and after I strummed a few clean chords through a Fender amp and asked which one she thought sounded better, she said the Lemon Drop without hesitating. Also the finishing on the lighter one was a little off, for example the neck pickup ring didn’t sit flush with the top and just looked a little unusual.

Ended up buying an Ernie Ball 3 inch neoprene strap with the polylock ends on it and it feels comfortable and for mine, not too heavy at all. 

The Seth Lovers are great pickups, but I’ve got a pair of Monty’s PAFs and one of his 50’s wiring harnesses ready to go which have me chomping at the bit wanting to try them!

Just the other night, I weirdly found the guitar listed for sale on another Japanese site, and which has some nice pictures: https://www.worldshopping.global/en/detail/2958800

Weaver85

I have an LP black beauty from the esp line that has seen lots of other LPs come and go, including a custom shop model. I swapped the Seth Lovers out though as they always sounded a bit bland to me. I wouldn't buy from an auction site - I learnt the hard way that it's always best to make the extra effort to try a guitar in person without gambling on whether it will suit you or not. 

Aidanspaghetti

@atm1991 I'd love to see some photos! I'm up to 6 navigator ATM and trying hard not to buy springywheels one! Brilliant guitars - I  currently playing my Navi strat a lot too and it's up there with my Tyler..Delighted for ya!