New Gibson R8 any major issues?

DanR

Im going to try and have a look at  a few on Saturday but theres not many around the NW now.

Any particular issues I should look out for bar the usual fit/finish of a Gibson.

Also any shops other than Reidys/PMT in this area people can recommend.

Cheers

Danny

designerseye88

Whats your budget? It seems 2013/14 are popular. Although no doubt you get good and bad in every year. 
If you buy online you can return within 14 days so may be worthwhile looking nationwide. 
Can't think of any specific issues if it sounds good then go for it. You may be set on an R8 but could be worth considering early 80's Japanese LP guitars. They are similar money but built very well and are starting to appreciate in value. 

designerseye88

Oh yeah, Forgot to say that the general consensus is to avoid 2012 models as they have a 2 piece fretboard. I don't have one but im sure someone will come along shortly with the some further advice. 

RandallFlagg

Look out for neck alignment, do the strings pass the end of the neck with even spacing to edge of the fret board on the 2 outer strings? Sometimes they are very slightly out and you can have a larger gap one side that the other. A very small difference is normally no problem but if it's more than slight then you can have issues with strings slipping off the fretboard at the dusty end.

2013 onwards have the custombuckers which are a notable improvement over the previous burstbuckers.

robmac5150

i have a cracking 2009 Plaintop R8 for sale just FYI

markr76

I have a 2016 R8 in Bourbon burst. Its a fantastic guitar. Well Made, no problems to report other than the binding bleed. Which is fairly common on some years as they use the period correct dye. Or so they say they do!

I played as many as I could get my hands on around the guitar shops in Birmingham. To be honest I didn't find any custom shop guitars with any glaring problems. They were all very good. But very different to each other. The neck shapes varied a lot. Mine has a fairly beefy neck, which I took to very quickly in the shop. It sounded better to my ears too.

Now the build quality on the standard usa range varied massively! Some were very nice but I looked at a load to find a good one. A big problem on the standards I can't stand is when the neck pickup ring doesn't butt right up to the neck leaving a gap. This reveals a very rough looking neck joint! Unacceptable for the money if you ask me.

Jonathanthomas83

markr76 said:

I have a 2016 R8 in Bourbon burst. Its a fantastic guitar. Well Made, no problems to report other than the binding bleed. Which is fairly common on some years as they use the period correct dye. Or so they say they do!

I played as many as I could get my hands on around the guitar shops in Birmingham. To be honest I didn't find any custom shop guitars with any glaring problems. They were all very good. But very different to each other. The neck shapes varied a lot. Mine has a fairly beefy neck, which I took to very quickly in the shop. It sounded better to my ears too.

Now the build quality on the standard usa range varied massively! Some were very nice but I looked at a load to find a good one. A big problem on the standards I can't stand is when the neck pickup ring doesn't butt right up to the neck leaving a gap. This reveals a very rough looking neck joint! Unacceptable for the money if you ask me.

I haven't noticed that on any Standards I've tried (definitely not calling you a liar), however, I was mightily shocked to find this very issue on an R8 and R9 I played in Dawson's in Manchester earlier this week. Considering they were £3399 and £5799 respectively, I felt it was completely unacceptable to have such a gap between the pickup ring and neck.

ICBM

markr76 said:

A big problem on the standards I can't stand is when the neck pickup ring doesn't butt right up to the neck leaving a gap. This reveals a very rough looking neck joint! Unacceptable for the money if you ask me.

You mean like this?

https://www.vintageandrare.com/uploads/products/61525/2397989/original.jpg


The first thing I check is the bridge height above the body. For me, if it's higher than will allow the tailpiece to be screwed down fully tight to the body without the strings pressing on the back of the bridge (the top E can do slightly) then the bridge is too high because the neck has been fitted at too steep an angle, which is common.

I know some people disagree that it's a problem, but I've never found one with a high bridge that feels or sounds quite right to me, and I think it affects the tuning stability too.

markr76

So I guess the gap between the pick up ring and neck has always popped up on some les Paul's. Even back in the day!
I agree about the neck angle. My r8 has the tail screwed down to the body and the strings are clear of the bridge. Couldn't do that on my old standard. Which was a 2012 I think. 

Jonathanthomas83

ICBM said:

markr76 said:

A big problem on the standards I can't stand is when the neck pickup ring doesn't butt right up to the neck leaving a gap. This reveals a very rough looking neck joint! Unacceptable for the money if you ask me.

You mean like this?

https://www.vintageandrare.com/uploads/products/61525/2397989/original.jpg


The first thing I check is the bridge height above the body. For me, if it's higher than will allow the tailpiece to be screwed down fully tight to the body without the strings pressing on the back of the bridge (the top E can do slightly) then the bridge is too high because the neck has been fitted at too steep an angle, which is common.

I know some people disagree that it's a problem, but I've never found one with a high bridge that feels or sounds quite right to me, and I think it affects the tuning stability too.

I really don't get why Gibson can get this right with the reissues but choose to ignore it on their £2600ish Standards - I mean, that's not a cheap guitar that they should be cutting corners on.

ICBM

Jonathanthomas83 said:

I really don't get why Gibson can get this right with the reissues but choose to ignore it on their £2600ish Standards - I mean, that's not a cheap guitar that they should be cutting corners on.

No - and if anything, if they’re making a big deal of the Historics being hand made like they were back in the 50s and the Standards being more of a ‘production line’ model, then the simplest way of solving it would be to use CNC tooling for the neck joints on the Standards, which would guarantee consistency so they could set the neck angle accurately without needing to allow room for error. It works for PRS...

RandallFlagg

I agree, the shallower neck angle is one distinguishing feature of the Historics that makes it hard to go back to a factory guitar after you've played one. I love the shallower angle on my R8 and having the tailpiece flat to body

Jonathanthomas83

Agreed!

I think this and a gap between the neck and pickup ring are pretty much unforgivable at that price range and in this day and age. The odd bleed can be overlooked, I think, personally.

As for the rest of it, they still sound incredible, IMO and I really love my Les Paul. One day I may buy the perfect one...I really hope so!

stickyfiddle

ICBM said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

I really don't get why Gibson can get this right with the reissues but choose to ignore it on their £2600ish Standards - I mean, that's not a cheap guitar that they should be cutting corners on.

No - and if anything, if they’re making a big deal of the Historics being hand made like they were back in the 50s and the Standards being more of a ‘production line’ model, then the simplest way of solving it would be to use CNC tooling for the neck joints on the Standards, which would guarantee consistency so they could set the neck angle accurately without needing to allow room for error. It works for PRS...

They had an "ask Henry" forum a few years back as a form of market research. I had a big thread about neck joints and asking why they don't just define the actual neck angle they want on every guitar, then CNC to that spec. I didn't get a reply from Henry... That was getting on for 10 years ago now..

WezV

ICBM said:

I know some people disagree that it's a problem, but I've never found one with a high bridge that feels or sounds quite right to me, and I think it affects the tuning stability too.

I know this is one we have discussed before.   I don't disagree its a problem when it is too high.  (see extreme examples at the bottom of the post)

I think its important to clarify the measurements that work and the visual clues that point to issues.   Both neck angle and bridge height are very easy to check, fouling of string and height of tailpiece also give significant clues.     There will be many fine Gibson's that sit at the higher side of average, there will be some where it is too high.

Also worth checking the bridge mounting method.  traditional ABR posts and thumbwheels will start to tilt if the bridge is too high.  A standard with ferrules and one piece posts/thumbwheels is less likely to suffer from this., and whilst the top of the ferrule fits nicely in the thumbwheel, you rarely see them set that low

I think you described the 70's Custom i was working on as extremely high.   That was 4.4 degrees with a bridge height pretty much on 1/4". the strings cleared the back of a nashville bridge with the tailpiece decked.  To me it was it was far from what i would class as too high.  It was only just above average really. 

I have an 81 standard (refin to custom) in at the mo that does look very steep.   I just checked it and it is about 5 degrees.  Its also a flatter carve, so you would expect a very high bridge.  I actually started with the bridge and pickups very high when stringing it up last night. Its actually much better than expected and i had to immediately drop it all down.   top thickness must be more than expected from the carve.  The bridge is  under 1/4" between base and body.  the strings clear the back of an ABR-1 bridge with room to spare, they just clear a Nashville.     Here is a pic, although the tailpiece is a turn away from being decked at this point (and the strings came out he pack rusty ).



I believe Gibson aim for 3-4 degrees on the historics and 4-5 on everything else.  I don't know why they don't just do a nice 3.5-3.8 on everything.  That would work perfectly for me.  I suspect you would want to knock at least half a degree of that.   There is an element of personal preference and ergonomics  within this.  I have always liked the way a steep neck angle wraps around you slightly


It definitely can be a problem,  and definitely worth checking on a Gibson purchase...  The level of variation is unacceptable.

I would be happy to diagnose the pictures below as "too high" based on no other data.   Its not hard to find other examples of Gibson's like this

ICBM

I think we're actually in agreement, give or take that half a degree . For me 3-3.5 would be OK, anything above 4 is too much - I don't like that 'wrap around' feel either, but it is just personal preference... the real problem is the force on the bridge posts.

The one in the bottom pic is ludicrous. I wouldn't even be surprised if that's outside Gibson's own tolerance.

I don't know what the tolerance could be reduced to if the joints were CNC cut, but I would think well under half a degree (ie +/-0.25º or less) could easily be achieved.

WezV

The main difference in our opinions is that I am perfectly happy with a 4-5 degree neck angle... as long as the strings don't hit the back edge of the bridge when the tailpiece if decked.  I build below 4, but don't reject gibsons  just because they are above 4.

I just checked my epiphone too.  It was my second guitar, first Les Paul many years ago and is the guitar i have owned for the longest (22 years at this point).  I am unsurprised to find it to be bang on 5 degrees.    



....
If anyone is wondering how to check, there are many spirit level App's you can get free that give very accurate readings 


check the surface - 1.1 degrees towards the worktop edge


check the neck angle (depress the strings at the body and take a readings from different positions for the most accurate readings) - 3.3 degrees the opposite way.


As the readings are the opposite way, add the measurements together.  4.4 degrees in this case 

TA22GT

Personally I like the flatter angle as it just feels so much more comfortable to play and if I pick up one with a steep angle I just don't want to play it.
On a strap the flatter angle just seems right, almost like a Tele.

gibsongretschfan

Is the gap between the neck and pickup guard even a thing? I’ve had my R8 for a few years now and honestly couldn’t even tell you if there was a gap or not without going to look at it.

WezV

gibsongretschfan said:

Is the gap between the neck and pickup guard even a thing? I’ve had my R8 for a few years now and honestly couldn’t even tell you if there was a gap or not without going to look at it.

Yeah, it’s a thing that many old ones had.

It’s from the slight variation in hand fitting the necks.  I don’t mind it

gibsongretschfan

WezV said:

gibsongretschfan said:

Is the gap between the neck and pickup guard even a thing? I’ve had my R8 for a few years now and honestly couldn’t even tell you if there was a gap or not without going to look at it.

Yeah, it’s a thing that many old ones had.

It’s from the slight variation in hand fitting the necks.  I don’t mind it

Why are some people saying it’s a bad thing?