Speaker choice for a Two Rock Studio Pro 35 head

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AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 105
edited August 1 in Amps
Hi all,

I have a  Two Rock  Studio Pro 35 head (non plus version) and a Zilla Fat Boy (oversized) 1x12 with a Celestion heritage g12-65 (16ohm).  Really loving the sound of it but struggling for headroom with a  medium hitting drummer in a rehearsal studio. It sounded compressed.

The head itself has lots of mids.  The g12-65 seems to have a lot of mids also.

I'm using an avri 64 Tele and no pedals.   I play blues with low gain.

@ICBM suggested that the g12-65  speaker might be the culprit.   I  tried the head in a different cab with a Celestion Fullback 8ohm

I'm unsure the answer is to  buy a Fullback for the oversized  zilla cab because it's a 15" speaker. Guessing it might be bassy as hell with that cab.  Wotcha think?     Or any other speaker ideas? 


Cheers,
Andy
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Comments

  • BeexterBeexter Frets: 302
    I've used an Eminence Wizard in a 1x12 oversized cab with a variety of amp heads and it is a very loud speaker with a high sensitivity rating. If it doesn't get you the volume you need, you need a bigger amp. It's really helped get the most volume out of any amp head I've paired it with which includes a Laney Cub 12, a Vox Night Train 50, an Orange Rocker 30 and a Mesa Express 5.25. I wouldn't say it was a particularly middy speaker and seems well balanced with a slight emphasis on the highs. This is easily tamed with the guitar tone knob but that extra cut is there If you need it. I believe it's the Eminence take on the Celestion G12H -30.
    Another option I use with similar sensitivity ratings but a softer top end is the Eminence Cannabis Rex. 
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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 105
    That's buddy will take a look!
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  • JMP220478JMP220478 Frets: 148
    edited July 6
    saw this - https://www.guitarplayer.com/gear/review-two-rock-akoya-and-studio-pro-35 ; - wondered if it might be useful ..

    noted they use same g12-65 but different ohmage ?  also they recommend a bigger 2x12 cab than combo ..

    I would suggest you borrow a high efficiency cab and at least then you know the extra volume is available - then speaker match to get tone you are chasing 

    are you running anything in the loop btw ?
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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 105
    edited July 6
    Hey buddy, cheers for the info. It looks like the link is broken tho.

    I tried running the head through a  Celestion Fullback (15 inch  8ohm speaker housed in a Supro  Thunderbolt plus combo. It gave more headroom and was less compressed sounding.   The mids were less overdone also.

    Nah nowt in the fx loop.  Just telecaster straight in.  I do have the fx level on full (it acts as a second master vol when the loop isn't being used).

    The 1 x12 Zilla cab (with the g12-65) is partial open back.   I'm trying to get a very clean with hint of breakup when I dig in  sound.




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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 18306
    edited July 6
    When I had that amp I used it with an 8 Ohm G12-65 and it sounded godly.
    It was actually too loud so I moved it on for a Louis Electric Roadrunner.
    I am the juice of four limes.
    Trading Feedback
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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 105
    edited July 6
    octatonic said:
    When I had that amp I used it with an 8 Ohm G12-65 and it sounded godly.
    It was actually too loud so I moved it on for a Louis Electric Roadrunner.
    Hmmm, something isn't right. Cheers for the info.    I might contact Two Rock and ask about my 16ohm speaker.

    Also... I know that the pickup selector control on the back isn't doing what it's supposed to. Unless it's in a certain position all the volume gets taken away.   Maybe that's part of the problem. 
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  • menamestommenamestom Frets: 2258

    The Cannabis Rex is a really clear speaker.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 32270
    I think the ‘pickup loading’ control is doing what it’s meant to, it’s just that overly loading a pickup makes the amp sound dull and quiet.

    I don’t think the speaker impedance will matter either, as long as the amp is set correctly for whichever you’re using. There is a marginal difference in tone, but not a lot, and there should be no volume difference.

    I think different people will have different perceptions of what ‘loud’ is depending on the type of tone they use - if you like a smooth overdriven midrange tone then the G12-65 is a great choice and will sound loud, but if you like a deep, dynamic clean/edge-of-breakup tone, then it’s not as good. I’m certain the problem here is the speaker because running it through a different one solved it.

    What you need is a 12” speaker which sounds more similar to the Fullback - deeper lows, cleaner mids and a bit more top-end - preferably a 99 or 100dB one.

    I haven’t actually tried a Fullback yet, but looking at the Celestion website, the 12” with the closest response graph seems to be the Creamback G12H-75, which I know is a great-sounding speaker.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 18306
    ICBM said:
    I think the ‘pickup loading’ control is doing what it’s meant to, it’s just that overly loading a pickup makes the amp sound dull and quiet.

    I don’t think the speaker impedance will matter either, as long as the amp is set correctly for whichever you’re using. There is a marginal difference in tone, but not a lot, and there should be no volume difference.

    I think different people will have different perceptions of what ‘loud’ is depending on the type of tone they use - if you like a smooth overdriven midrange tone then the G12-65 is a great choice and will sound loud, but if you like a deep, dynamic clean/edge-of-breakup tone, then it’s not as good. I’m certain the problem here is the speaker because running it through a different one solved it.

    What you need is a 12” speaker which sounds more similar to the Fullback - deeper lows, cleaner mids and a bit more top-end - preferably a 99 or 100dB one.

    I haven’t actually tried a Fullback yet, but looking at the Celestion website, the 12” with the closest response graph seems to be the Creamback G12H-75, which I know is a great-sounding speaker.

    Good point.
    I loved the Two Rock with the G12-65 because it nailed that full, throaty, overdrive with almost too much midrange (think Robben Ford-esque).
    If you don't want that sound then it is maybe the wrong speaker with that amp.

    I also almost always used it with humbuckers too- either Lollar Imperials or Burstbucker 1/2's.
    I am the juice of four limes.
    Trading Feedback
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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 105
    edited July 6
    Thx for all the replies guys.

    Yeah I love Robben Ford too. That was my reason for going with the g12-65 speaker.   

    @icbm I had the combo version of the amp a few years back. The pickup loading control didn't really alter the volume too much .  It changed the compression and eq slightly.  But it didn't strip away the volume like it seems to be doing on the head.   I know that the pickup loading control gets bypassed with a pedal in front. I can try that to see if it makes any difference..
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 32270
    They may have made the loading control more effective - too much - so it’s not completely negated by pedals. If you use something like a Boss pedal and the control no longer has any effect, you’ll know it’s that - the output impedance of a Boss is so low that it will override it. A pedal like a Fulltone OCD has a much higher output impedance though, so it will probably still be affected to some extent.

    If it does prove to be that, I could reduce the effect of the control if it would be useful, by changing the resistance value.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 105
    edited July 6
    Ok will give a try later!


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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 105
    edited July 7
    It's the Telecaster I don't like with the Head and g12-65 speaker!  There too much mid and it's compressed.  With my strat I get so much more headroom.

    The strat has a set of Klein S7s in it.   Super low output.
    The tele has the vintage 64 pickups I'm guessing. Still low output  (so I thought) but hitting the amp so much harder than the strat.

    Guess it's just too much mids with the tele? Will use the strat with this amp for now and keep the speaker as it is

    ps - the pickup loading switch is fine.

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 32270
    Yes, the Tele bridge pickup is not really a low-output pickup, it's both quite a lot hotter, and more midrangy than a Strat.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 105
    Cheers for the advice guys
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  • exocetexocet Frets: 545
    That style amp into a g12 65 should be plenty loud enough. I ran a similar amp with a loud band with no issues a few years back.
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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 105
    exocet said:
    That style amp into a g12 65 should be plenty loud enough. I ran a similar amp with a loud band with no issues a few years back.
    Cheers mate. What guitar were you using with it?

    Noticing the tele sounds very different to the strat with it.  
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  • exocetexocet Frets: 545
    Used a Strat and a Telecaster. The Telecaster midrange does push the front end harder than a Strat. The Tonestack in these amps is derived from the Dumble Overdrive Special which behaves similarly with Telecasters. 
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  • timmysofttimmysoft Frets: 1674
    Rocket 50
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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 105
    Will try the strat at next mondays rehearsal guys.  
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 32270
    timmysoft said:
    Rocket 50
    That will certainly help tame an amp with too much midrange.

    ... and too much bass, volume and general good tone.

    If you’re shy about taking your expensive boutique amp to a jam in case everyone else thinks you’re a gear snob, this is the best choice of speaker - no-one will believe your amp cost more than a Peavey Bandit when they hear it.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • timmysofttimmysoft Frets: 1674
    ICBM said:
    timmysoft said:
    Rocket 50
    That will certainly help tame an amp with too much midrange.

    ... and too much bass, volume and general good tone.

    If you’re shy about taking your expensive boutique amp to a jam in case everyone else thinks you’re a gear snob, this is the best choice of speaker - no-one will believe your amp cost more than a Peavey Bandit when they hear it.
    Rocket 50 is the future 
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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 105
    :)
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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 105
    edited July 9
    ICBM said:
    timmysoft said:
    Rocket 50
    That will certainly help tame an amp with too much midrange.

    ... and too much bass, volume and general
    good tone.

    If you’re shy about taking your expensive boutique amp to a jam in case everyone else thinks you’re a gear snob, this is the best choice of speaker - no-one will believe your amp cost more than a Peavey Bandit when they hear it.
    Thankfully it's only guitarists that seem to know about them.   Even then it's only certain types of players...
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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 105
    Tried the strat with the zilla cab at a rehearsal room last night, it sounded great.    There was plenty of headroom and wasn't overcompressing.   Happy with that.

    The strat pickups are very low output: Neck 5.85k (alnico 3), Middle 5.95k (alnico 3), Bridge 6.85k alnico 5

    The fender tele pickups are supposed to be low output.    Neck: 7.4K alnico 5, Bridge: 6.0K alnico 5.   

    But there's a huge difference between the tele and the strat. 



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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 105
    edited August 3
    Swapped the v1 12ax7 for a 12at7 and really helping the headroom! Also using a clean boost seems to the volume. 

    Gonna try it at rehearsal next Thursday with the the Musicman Luke. The pair sound the biz at home anyway...
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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 105
    In case anyone else is interested I've used an EVM-12L with great results. Now have loads of headroom....
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 32270
    edited August 27
    From memory the EV is claimed to be 100dB, but they sound louder than other 100dB speakers to me - a very bold, clear tone which sounds really beefy and punchy. It’s not easy to define a single overall sensitivity figure because it varies so much with frequency - the EV has a very wide and even response, so it will be louder in the bass and treble compared to the G12-65, and hence might be quite a lot more than twice as efficient even though the peak sensitivity is only 3dB higher. Being rated for 200W it also won’t even come close to compressing, with a 35W amp - the G12-65 probably will.

    Just hope the cab isn’t too heavy now!
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 105
    Cheers for the advice @ICBM. Learned that sometimes it's the speaker that needs a change and not the amp.
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