.

Bridgehouse

gringopig said:

Aye but a refin or custom shop one?

You can get custom shop flugelhorns? Like a closet classic bit of brass?

GavRichList

*unfollows thread*

Bridgehouse

GavRichList said:

*unfollows thread*

Believe me - the Marlin sidewinder idea was not mine. I’ve had a vintage jag and it was awesome. 

gringopig

.

Bridgehouse

gringopig said:

In all seriousness though, flippant humour aside. I will keep on looking and should @GavRichList be willing, I'll pass on info for an opinion!

Mine was a bit later, early 70s but it was a really really good guitar and sounded fantastic. It had the thin nut width which ultimately put me off.. but there’s something about the old ones...

GavRichList

There are a fair few on here who’re pretty knowledgeable- @andrewaward springs to mind for one 

benecol

meltedbuzzbox said:

benecol said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

The arm sits too high for me and the custom shop system works a lot better. Imo and all that

Ooh - I wasn't aware the Custom Shop trem was any different; go on...

It stays in place like the staytrem system but isn't raised 5 cm above the scratchplate. Has a nicer feel too

I've done a little digging on this - pretty sure the Custom Shop just use standard American tailpieces and collets.

meltedbuzzbox

benecol said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

benecol said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

The arm sits too high for me and the custom shop system works a lot better. Imo and all that

Ooh - I wasn't aware the Custom Shop trem was any different; go on...

It stays in place like the staytrem system but isn't raised 5 cm above the scratchplate. Has a nicer feel too

I've done a little digging on this - pretty sure the Custom Shop just use standard American tailpieces and collets.

Pass. It stays put, works wonderfully and doesn't need a staytrem replacement. 

benecol

Arr - standard collet, which I agree is fine until it goes wrong. When mine went south in my Jazzmaster, the metal-on-metal sound and friction used to cause all my fillings to jump out and rearrange themselves into other teeth.

As has been noted above, correctly pushed in, the Staytrem arm sits at the same height off the body (assuming no weird arm bends).

meltedbuzzbox

benecol said:

Arr - standard collet, which I agree is fine until it goes wrong. When mine went south in my Jazzmaster, the metal-on-metal sound and friction used to cause all my fillings to jump out and rearrange themselves into other teeth.

As has been noted above, correctly pushed in, the Staytrem arm sits at the same height off the body (assuming no weird arm bends).

has the staytrem collet changed in recent years? I always remember it riding a fair bit higher than my old MIJ unit and the avri. 
I stopped using them once I got a CS. 

GavRichList

I’ve the staytrem on my Jazzmaster and it’s the same height as my Jaguars, which is the stock 1962 unit. Which, oddly enough, stays exactly where you leave it. 

benecol

meltedbuzzbox said:

has the staytrem collet changed in recent years? 

Internally, yes (my first one had a tensioning bolt inside, the recent ones don't), externally no.

But my heavy nerdery is starting to frighten me now, so I'm going to duck out with a view to keeping this on-topic.

Gagaryn

meltedbuzzbox said:

benecol said:

Arr - standard collet, which I agree is fine until it goes wrong. When mine went south in my Jazzmaster, the metal-on-metal sound and friction used to cause all my fillings to jump out and rearrange themselves into other teeth.

As has been noted above, correctly pushed in, the Staytrem arm sits at the same height off the body (assuming no weird arm bends).

has the staytrem collet changed in recent years? I always remember it riding a fair bit higher than my old MIJ unit and the avri. 
I stopped using them once I got a CS. 

http://staytrem.com/epages/950002362.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/950002362/Categories/Content_page2

http://staytrem.com/epages/950002362.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/950002362/Categories/JaguarJazzmaster_tremolo_arm_insertion

impmann

I take issue with a comment earlier about "virtually zero sustain".

If your Jaguar has virtually no sustain, then either 1) something is wrong with it or 2) its a shit one, irrespective of age/origin.

The attack and decay envelope of a  Jaguar is different to a Les Paul (or a Strat or a Tele) but equally I've played a couple of insanely good Jags that ring like bells. One is a CS one, one is Mexican one and one is a Jap - I make this point because some will tell you the only way to get a good one is to buy "x". Just play lots and buy with your ears, not the origin/logo... fwiw, the ones I've had least luck with finding an exceptional one with has been the AVRI ranges, although I'm sure there must be good ones out there *somewhere*.

The original bridge isn't great for sustain, although some reckon it to be "part of the sound". Personally speaking, I've run them with the standard bridge, a mustang, a Staytrem and a Mastery - I preferred the Staytrem and Mastery options, and both bring slightly different characteristics to the table. That is down to preference, opinion - and there is no right or wrong there (despite some "Internet Wisdom").

Bottom line - play lots, ignore other people's opinion (especially those that dress it up as fact) and if you like what you hear/play, buy it.

impmann

Gagaryn said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

benecol said:

Arr - standard collet, which I agree is fine until it goes wrong. When mine went south in my Jazzmaster, the metal-on-metal sound and friction used to cause all my fillings to jump out and rearrange themselves into other teeth.

As has been noted above, correctly pushed in, the Staytrem arm sits at the same height off the body (assuming no weird arm bends).

has the staytrem collet changed in recent years? I always remember it riding a fair bit higher than my old MIJ unit and the avri. 
I stopped using them once I got a CS. 

http://staytrem.com/epages/950002362.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/950002362/Categories/Content_page2

http://staytrem.com/epages/950002362.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/950002362/Categories/JaguarJazzmaster_tremolo_arm_insertion

An AVRI arm does sit lower, even with the Staytrem fully pushed home. You can see it in those pics

 You can see what I mean in this picture of a very famous Jazzmaster before Nels finally broke the trem and Woody fitted a Mastery... (although the arm has been rebent considerably... but look at the height of the collet relative to the 90 degree bend in the arm)

Jackobean

PMT have some nice custom shop jags in around £2800. I don't think vintage offsets represent such a compelling value proposition anymore, too many deluded sellers out there.

Grocer_Jack

impmann said:

I take issue with a comment earlier about "virtually zero sustain".

If your Jaguar has virtually no sustain, then either 1) something is wrong with it or 2) its a shit one, irrespective of age/origin.

The attack and decay envelope of a  Jaguar is different to a Les Paul (or a Strat or a Tele) but equally I've played a couple of insanely good Jags that ring like bells. One is a CS one, one is Mexican one and one is a Jap - I make this point because some will tell you the only way to get a good one is to buy "x". Just play lots and buy with your ears, not the origin/logo... fwiw, the ones I've had least luck with finding an exceptional one with has been the AVRI ranges, although I'm sure there must be good ones out there *somewhere*.

The original bridge isn't great for sustain, although some reckon it to be "part of the sound". Personally speaking, I've run them with the standard bridge, a mustang, a Staytrem and a Mastery - I preferred the Staytrem and Mastery options, and both bring slightly different characteristics to the table. That is down to preference, opinion - and there is no right or wrong there (despite some "Internet Wisdom").

Bottom line - play lots, ignore other people's opinion (especially those that dress it up as fact) and if you like what you hear/play, buy it.

This is spot on. I had an MIJ one that was awful until it had a proper set up with a neck pocket shim put in. I played a  Classic Player MIM with the 'wrong' trem placement, 'wrong' pickups and the Gibson style bridge and unexpectedly it was an absolute gem. Also played a 1965 Jag in Vintage and Rare that was just useless - no sustain at all. 

meltedbuzzbox

looking at that staytrem article, both of my CS vibrato arm sits 5mm lower than the Staytrem in the picture. 

I was pretty confident I wasn't imaging it

meltedbuzzbox

impmann said:

I take issue with a comment earlier about "virtually zero sustain".

If your Jaguar has virtually no sustain, then either 1) something is wrong with it or 2) its a shit one, irrespective of age/origin.

The attack and decay envelope of a  Jaguar is different to a Les Paul (or a Strat or a Tele) but equally I've played a couple of insanely good Jags that ring like bells. One is a CS one, one is Mexican one and one is a Jap - I make this point because some will tell you the only way to get a good one is to buy "x". Just play lots and buy with your ears, not the origin/logo... fwiw, the ones I've had least luck with finding an exceptional one with has been the AVRI ranges, although I'm sure there must be good ones out there *somewhere*.

The original bridge isn't great for sustain, although some reckon it to be "part of the sound". Personally speaking, I've run them with the standard bridge, a mustang, a Staytrem and a Mastery - I preferred the Staytrem and Mastery options, and both bring slightly different characteristics to the table. That is down to preference, opinion - and there is no right or wrong there (despite some "Internet Wisdom").

Bottom line - play lots, ignore other people's opinion (especially those that dress it up as fact) and if you like what you hear/play, buy it.

Definitely agree with all of this. Although the CS Jag mentioned above (mine) has sustain with a stock bridge that would make Slash envious. 

SteveRobinson

impmann said:

I take issue with a comment earlier about "virtually zero sustain".

If your Jaguar has virtually no sustain, then either 1) something is wrong with it or 2) its a shit one, 

3. Switch the mute to off