Vintage Fender Jaguar. Minefield or...NGD!!

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gringopiggringopig Frets: 547
edited July 18 in Guitar
I was thinking about buying a 1962-1966 Fender Jaguar due to a recent infatuation with Kurt Vile and have been looking at various sites around the internet to get a feel for prices but, given the resource that we have here, I would ask those with more knowledge and experience of the vintage market what I should be on the lookout for in terms of:
Price
Potential fakery (the amount of custom coloured Jaguars seem to be disproportionate to me lol)
Whether they are any better than a modern re-issue

Any good sources to peruse for specimens in the wild?

Thanks!
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  • punchesjudypunchesjudy Frets: 123
    @GavRichList Any wisdom? 
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  • benecolbenecol Frets: 238
    Join offsetguitars - I think it's 50+ posts to see the Classifieds, but I'll keep an eye in the meantime!

    ALWAYS LOOK UNDER THE PICKGUARD - people did some crazy routing to Jags.
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  • gringopiggringopig Frets: 547
    edited July 8
    Righty ho. Signing up!
    I'm going to promise myself if I get a new job after 26 years in the same place that it will be marked by a vintage jaguar...
    cheers.

    Hope I get the job lol
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  • chris78chris78 Frets: 255
    As with everything, play first. Are you sure you definitely like them? Of course they’re short scale which is why they weren’t popular for a while and they have virtually zero sustain. Cleans are of course lovely. I’ve owned 2 vintage Jags, a 65 and a 69 and honestly, they both left me cold. I’ve also owned an av65, which was nice enough. If I wanted another Jag, I’d probably go with the reissue so I could modify it and make it playable, without killing the value.
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 3365
    chris78 said:
    I’d probably go with the reissue so I could modify it and make it playable, without killing the value.
    This is what I did, except mine is an AVRI '62. Mastery bridge and tailpiece mods, Duncan Antiquity pickups. Not yet got around to a series/parallel switch.
    "It's no wonder the Pacific Ocean is blue."
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  • gringopiggringopig Frets: 547
    edited July 8
    chris78 said:
    As with everything, play first. Are you sure you definitely like them? Of course they’re short scale which is why they weren’t popular for a while and they have virtually zero sustain. Cleans are of course lovely. I’ve owned 2 vintage Jags, a 65 and a 69 and honestly, they both left me cold. I’ve also owned an av65, which was nice enough. If I wanted another Jag, I’d probably go with the reissue so I could modify it and make it playable, without killing the value.
    You don't get much shorter scale in a Fender than this:



    I'm not sure I definitely like them though, it's true. In truth I have never played one. Perhaps I should nip down GuitarGuitar...
    However, I can get used to anything and I play clean anyway. Not too much of a fan of distortion.
    I have a very acute and focused attack of GAS for a 63 or 64 Jaguar and the only vintage guitars I have are a 1966 Baldwin double six, 1974/5 ES335 and the one above. I know these guitars are what they are but I'm not confident about buying a vintage now given the amount of fiendish trickery going on...

    The one above was bought by me in Toronto in 1989 like this: 


    and I was the one who got it back to the original finish courtesy of Chris Roberts from 3Rguitars with 1970's meddling put right and with the proper pickup  covers and knobs. So I can see quite easily how something might be mis-represented should the seller be so inclined and hence my trepidation.

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  • gringopiggringopig Frets: 547
    Mastery bridge is a good idea actually. A direct replacement without modification I presume?
    Ta!
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  • jimmyguitarjimmyguitar Frets: 1561
    I think Jaguars are pretty safe buys in the vintage world as they’re not nearly as desirable as strats and teles so there’s not much money in it for a forger. To go to all the effort faking one to then sell it for £2-3k (sunburst) doesn’t make sense.
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 3365
    gringopig said:
    Mastery bridge is a good idea actually. A direct replacement without modification I presume?
    Ta!
    Saddles and pivots replaced on bridge. Arm and collet on tailpiece. Dismantling is involved but this is your opportunity to check that the lock knob mechanism operates as it should. 

    benecol said:
    Join offsetguitars
    Their web site has plenty of articles about fettling. 

    GuitarWorld has some interesting articles about custom wiring circuits.
    "It's no wonder the Pacific Ocean is blue."
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  • punchesjudypunchesjudy Frets: 123
    Both the Staytrem and Mastery bridge are just drop in replacements. Can't go wrong with either tbh though I personally prefer the Staytrem. 
    As for the trem the Staytrem collet and arm is a great upgrade. 
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  • GavRichListGavRichList Frets: 4430
    I have an early 62, and in all honesty it’s everything I could ever want in a guitar. The early early 62s have a slab neck, which adds a fair slice of warmth / thicker low end. Also has black bobbin / flat pole pickups, again warmer than you might expect; certainly not the shrill jingle jangle weediness of the reissues. There are actually a whole bunch of tiny changes to the Jaguar line that help authenticate the years; there used to be a brilliant website called Jim Shine, but it seems to be defunct. 
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  • meltedbuzzboxmeltedbuzzbox Frets: 7794
    I'd go custom shop personally. Even vintage offset prices are going a bit wild now. 

    They are awesome guitars though. I think I will always own one.

    Saying that Jazzmasters are better :-D
    The Bigsby was the first successful design of what is now called a whammy bar or tremolo arm, although vibrato is the technically correct term for the musical effect it produces. In standard usage, tremolo is a rapid fluctuation of the volume of a note, while vibrato is a fluctuation in pitch. The origin of this nonstandard usage of the term by electric guitarists is attributed to Leo Fender, who also used the term “vibrato” to refer to what is really a tremolo effect.
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  • GavRichListGavRichList Frets: 4430
    Yeah, it does depend on price. I think mine would set you back significantly more than I paid for it 4 years ago now. 
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  • gringopiggringopig Frets: 547
    edited July 8
    ARRGHHH that's the one I want! Sell it to me!

    Mustang bridge?
    I can't see any curve on the fingerboard. Is that a 1962?

    EDIT: DOH I was too busy looking at the pictures...
    Double DOH - a Staytrem.
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  • gringopiggringopig Frets: 547
    Yeah, it does depend on price. I think mine would set you back significantly more than I paid for it 4 years ago now. 
    I can see a custom shop re-issue on Peach but it's close to what you might pay for an original. How much should an untouched 63 or 64 go for - in sunburst?
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  • gringopiggringopig Frets: 547
    I'd go custom shop personally. Even vintage offset prices are going a bit wild now. 

    They are awesome guitars though. I think I will always own one.

    Saying that Jazzmasters are better :-D
    Aha. Trying to keep all the vintage ones for yourself eh? I see your game pal lol. I have looked at custom shop too. I own 2 myself so I know how good they can be. A vintage fender is a whole level of GAS above though...
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  • GavRichListGavRichList Frets: 4430
    Staytrem bridge on mine. Prefer to mastery. Yes, it’s an early 62 - there’s a curve of rosewood after the nut. 

    http://i.imgur.com/PiNjtQ3.jpg

    And a big ol’ lump at the heel. 

    http://i.imgur.com/YG2LIZA.jpg

    Sell it to you? Afraid not! The guitar I wanted since I was 16. It took me til I was 33 to get it. 

    The way I see it, it was Fenders top of the line guitar from absolutely their golden era; if you treat them properly (replacement bridge, good set up, 11s) then they’re pretty untouchable. The neck is perfect - really chunky. 

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  • GavRichListGavRichList Frets: 4430
    gringopig said:
    Yeah, it does depend on price. I think mine would set you back significantly more than I paid for it 4 years ago now. 
    I can see a custom shop re-issue on Peach but it's close to what you might pay for an original. How much should an untouched 63 or 64 go for - in sunburst?
    I think you’d be looking at 3-3.5k now
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  • benecolbenecol Frets: 238
    As for the trem the Staytrem collet and arm is a great upgrade. 
    Absolutely the best upgrade you can make on a Jag or a JM.
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  • meltedbuzzboxmeltedbuzzbox Frets: 7794
    gringopig said:
    Yeah, it does depend on price. I think mine would set you back significantly more than I paid for it 4 years ago now. 
    I can see a custom shop re-issue on Peach but it's close to what you might pay for an original. How much should an untouched 63 or 64 go for - in sunburst?
    I think you’d be looking at 3-3.5k now
    I would have thought nearer 5k?
    Or have I been looking at daft dealer prices?
    The Bigsby was the first successful design of what is now called a whammy bar or tremolo arm, although vibrato is the technically correct term for the musical effect it produces. In standard usage, tremolo is a rapid fluctuation of the volume of a note, while vibrato is a fluctuation in pitch. The origin of this nonstandard usage of the term by electric guitarists is attributed to Leo Fender, who also used the term “vibrato” to refer to what is really a tremolo effect.
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  • meltedbuzzboxmeltedbuzzbox Frets: 7794
    benecol said:
    As for the trem the Staytrem collet and arm is a great upgrade. 
    Absolutely the best upgrade you can make on a Jag or a JM.
    The arm sits too high for me and the custom shop system works a lot better. Imo and all that
    The Bigsby was the first successful design of what is now called a whammy bar or tremolo arm, although vibrato is the technically correct term for the musical effect it produces. In standard usage, tremolo is a rapid fluctuation of the volume of a note, while vibrato is a fluctuation in pitch. The origin of this nonstandard usage of the term by electric guitarists is attributed to Leo Fender, who also used the term “vibrato” to refer to what is really a tremolo effect.
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  • GavRichListGavRichList Frets: 4430
    No, you’re maybe right... I’d certainly expect over 4 for mine 
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  • benecolbenecol Frets: 238
    The arm sits too high for me and the custom shop system works a lot better. Imo and all that
    Ooh - I wasn't aware the Custom Shop trem was any different; go on...
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  • GagarynGagaryn Frets: 1395
    benecol said:
    As for the trem the Staytrem collet and arm is a great upgrade. 
    Absolutely the best upgrade you can make on a Jag or a JM.
    The arm sits too high for me and the custom shop system works a lot better. Imo and all that
    Stayterm arm sits same height as the Fender arm so long as it is pushed properly into the collet which many people don't - it's a tight fit.
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  • earwighoneyearwighoney Frets: 1651
    Maybe just get a tattoo of Kurt Vile instead?
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  • meltedbuzzboxmeltedbuzzbox Frets: 7794
    benecol said:
    The arm sits too high for me and the custom shop system works a lot better. Imo and all that
    Ooh - I wasn't aware the Custom Shop trem was any different; go on...
    It stays in place like the staytrem system but isn't raised 5 cm above the scratchplate. Has a nicer feel too
    The Bigsby was the first successful design of what is now called a whammy bar or tremolo arm, although vibrato is the technically correct term for the musical effect it produces. In standard usage, tremolo is a rapid fluctuation of the volume of a note, while vibrato is a fluctuation in pitch. The origin of this nonstandard usage of the term by electric guitarists is attributed to Leo Fender, who also used the term “vibrato” to refer to what is really a tremolo effect.
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  • gringopiggringopig Frets: 547
    Maybe just get a tattoo of Kurt Vile instead?
    I have one already! lol

    jk

    It would be cheaper.
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  • gringopiggringopig Frets: 547
    Staytrem bridge on mine. Prefer to mastery. Yes, it’s an early 62 - there’s a curve of rosewood after the nut. 

    http://i.imgur.com/PiNjtQ3.jpg

    And a big ol’ lump at the heel. 

    http://i.imgur.com/YG2LIZA.jpg

    Sell it to you? Afraid not! The guitar I wanted since I was 16. It took me til I was 33 to get it. 

    The way I see it, it was Fenders top of the line guitar from absolutely their golden era; if you treat them properly (replacement bridge, good set up, 11s) then they’re pretty untouchable. The neck is perfect - really chunky. 

    Over 4K. That sounds about right to be honest looking at the dealers. The custom shop one is £3879 so a vintage isn't far off for me. OK some good tips so far:

    Join offsetguitars - done
    @GavRichList '62 jaguar - not for sale dammit
    Look into Staytrem and Mastery
    3-3.5 to 5K price
    Check under pickguard
    Don't discount Custom Shop

    :-)

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  • GavRichListGavRichList Frets: 4430
    If you find one you’re interested in, float the link here - I’ll try and spot anything obvious 
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