TV Jones in a Tele - Bass Flub

chris45

I've a telecaster with a single coil bridge and a TV Jones in the neck.  The guitar is great to play and the bridge is classic tele but the neck pickup is bugging me.  Strings D and higher sound fine, but the A and particularly the E string are very bass heavy; the E sounds like it has it's own tone control set permanently all the way down.  Definitely not my experience of Filtertron type pickups.

The distance between the top of the pole pieces on the low E to the bottom of the string is 0.15 inch which seems to be within the bounds of the recommended setup.   Also the pickups seem to be volume balanced i.e. no perceivable volume change when switching from neck to bridge.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Funkfingers

• which exact Telecaster model?
• which exact TV Jones pickup model?
• which mounting? 
• what value control pots?
• any smart arse control circuitry mods?
• what amplification are you using?

Winny_Pooh

Lower the polepiece for a start and then lower the whole bass side. You should also raise the bass side on the bridge pickup to even out the eq when switching between pickups.

Funkfingers

chris45 said:

The distance between the top of the pole pieces on the low E to the bottom of the string is 0.15 inch which seems to be within the bounds of the recommended setup. 

Official TVJ instructions illustrate clearance between polepieces and open strings as follows;

Neck low E = 3/16 to 7/32"
Neck high E = 3/16"

Bridge low E = 5/32"
Bridge high E = 3/16"


More significantly, perhaps, the TVJ is expecting a 500k volume pot. Time for the @ICBM resistor mod.

octatonic

Winny_Pooh said:

Lower the polepiece for a start and then lower the whole bass side. You should also raise the bass side on the bridge pickup to even out the eq when switching between pickups.

This.

The TVJ clearances are a guideline, not a rule book.

Funkfingers

octatonic said:

The TVJ clearances are a guideline, not a rule book.

I agree.

I suspect that running the 'Tron through a 250k volume pot would be significant.

chris45

Funkfingers said:

• which exact Telecaster model?
• which exact TV Jones pickup model?
• which mounting? 
• what value control pots?
• any smart arse control circuitry mods?
• what amplification are you using?

Fender CS Custom Telecaster (bound body)
TV Classic
Mounted direct to body
250 pots
No circuit mods
Tone King Imperial - I don't see the same behaviour on any other guitar (single coil, humbucker)

chris45

Funkfingers said:

• which exact Telecaster model?
• which exact TV Jones pickup model?
• which mounting? 
• what value control pots?
• any smart arse control circuitry mods?
• what amplification are you using?

Fender CS Custom Telecaster (bound body)
TV Classic
Mounted direct to body
250 pots
No circuit mods
Tone King Imperial - I don't see the same behaviour on any other guitar (single coil, humbucker).

250 pots - perhaps alluding to what several posters have suggested I see that similar, newer models have a stacked 250/500k volume control.

Funkfingers

Before investing in parts, it might be worth temporarily disconnecting the TVJ pickup from the Telecaster controls. Either run it directly to a jack socket or try it with a 500k pot.

The ICBM mod would involve changing to a 500k volume pot and adding a resistor on the Telecaster side of the circuit. I shall let the man himself explain what to do and to suggest component values.

chris45

Thanks - will try all of the above in next few days

chris45

So I have experimented with the pole pieces and also the pickup height.  The volume drops (as expected) but still the same issues.  I’m going to ask a tech directly...

Alegree

Filtertrons are very scooped by design, so that's quite normal IMO.
Try running it through a series 0.047uf capacitor.

CasperCaster

This ^^^

It's a common cure for muddy/ bassy neck pickups on Les Pauls, and should work equally well with your TVJ.

Dominic

Alegree said:

Filtertrons are very scooped by design, so that's quite normal IMO.
Try running it through a series 0.047uf capacitor.

Agree

chris45

Update:  @ICBM played around with the setup but it’s still there.  We’ve not tried any capacitance changes yet, but    I’ve checked out some clips and my pickup is muddy across the board.  Will canvas to see if the pickups a bad ‘un.

DarnWeight

Still muddy with a 500k volume pot?  I just made this change to my modded MIJ 62 Custom (Gretsch HS Filtertron neck + AV 62 Tele Custom bridge) and it worked a treat...



Used the parallel resistor trick so the bridge "sees" a 250k pot, but neck/neck+bridge see the full 500k.  The 'Tron definitely sounds miles better with a 500k, and I just wish that I'd done it sooner.

ICBM

Having looked at Chris' guitar, a 500K pot won't fix it. (For what it's worth, even if you use a 500K pot for the neck position, you still want the middle position to see 250K since the combined inductance of both pickups is actually lower than the single coil alone.)

The problem is that the Filtertron has a very noticeable capacitance, which can easily be heard when you switch from the bridge to the middle position - it's like engaging a small extra tone control. There was - as is normal for Fender CS - an excessive amount of messy wiring in the control cavity, including about 3"-4" more cable than necessary on the neck pickup, which I tidied up but which probably didn't make any difference, it's in the pF range. I also lowered the pickup further and raised the polepieces.

I did wonder about disconnecting the pickup cover to reduce capacitance, but that's likely to cause noise when touching the cover. I often do this with muddy standard Tele neck pickups, but the cover is much smaller and you don't tend to touch it as much as you do the big Filtertron cover.

I think the next step is either to add a series cap to the pickup, or possibly to partially lift the cover ground with a resistor and see if there's a value which both preserves the shielding enough, and reduces the capacitance. If not, then replacing or rewinding the pickup may be the only option.

OilCityPickups

Alegree said:

Filtertrons are very scooped by design, so that's quite normal IMO.
Try running it through a series 0.047uf capacitor.

Scooped yes, muddy at the bass end no. Scooped is due to very large alnico 5 magnet combined with a low wind. This will make bass and treble prominant, but no more than say a low wind Strat pickup.

ICBM said:

Having looked at Chris' guitar, a 500K pot won't fix it. (For what it's worth, even if you use a 500K pot for the neck position, you still want the middle position to see 250K since the combined inductance of both pickups is actually lower than the single coil alone.)

The problem is that the Filtertron has a very noticeable capacitance, which can easily be heard when you switch from the bridge to the middle position - it's like engaging a small extra tone control. There was - as is normal for Fender CS - an excessive amount of messy wiring in the control cavity, including about 3"-4" more cable than necessary on the neck pickup, which I tidied up but which probably didn't make any difference, it's in the pF range. I also lowered the pickup further and raised the polepieces.

I did wonder about disconnecting the pickup cover to reduce capacitance, but that's likely to cause noise when touching the cover. I often do this with muddy standard Tele neck pickups, but the cover is much smaller and you don't tend to touch it as much as you do the big Filtertron cover.

I think the next step is either to add a series cap to the pickup, or possibly to partially lift the cover ground with a resistor and see if there's a value which both preserves the shielding enough, and reduces the capacitance. If not, then replacing or rewinding the pickup may be the only option.

Hummmmmmm ... a Filtertron is not normally a higher capacitance than usual design (I make and measure them regularly) so I would suspect some manufacturing issue.

chris45

So I decided that if the pickup is a bad un there is only so much remediation that can be done (aka turd polishing).  Hence it has been shipped to @TheGuitarWeasel for a checkout.  Watch this space!

OilCityPickups

chris45 said:

So I decided that if the pickup is a bad un there is only so much remediation that can be done (aka turd polishing).  Hence it has been shipped to @TheGuitarWeasel for a checkout.  Watch this space!

Pickup is on my bench and being re worked ... I found a number of internal issues, pics and explanation to follow.

ICBM

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Pickup is on my bench and being re worked ... I found a number of internal issues, pics and explanation to follow.

Given the reputation of TV Jones that's quite a surprise, but having heard it I'm not... if that makes sense!