So, that whole thing about Gibson quality control...

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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24578
    Haych said:
    Just to add a bit of balance, the last new Gibson I bought (coming to think of it, the only new Gibson I’ve ever bought) was a 2016 ES Les Paul Alex Lifeson model. 

    The only fault I can find with it is a red mark on the end of the neck, just under the fingerboard edge in front of the neck pickup. Apart from that it’s flawless. 

    No idea where that red mark came from, looks like something has rubbed off from a tool or something. As it’s over the white paint on end grain, it’s not the smoothest finish in that area so I haven’t attempted to remove it. 

    Its only a small mark so it bothers me very little and it’s otherwise a fabulous guitar. 

    You can just see it here:

    https://imgur.com/gallery/h2A4YWI
    I could be wrong but that looks like polishing rouge from the buffing..
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  • HaychHaych Frets: 5594
    Bridgehouse said:
    I could be wrong but that looks like polishing rouge from the buffing..
    Yeah, that's possible I suppose, never thought of that.

    There is no 'H' in Aych, you know that don't you? ~ Wife

    Turns out there is an H in Haych! ~ Sporky

    Bit of trading feedback here.

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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24578
    Haych said:
    Bridgehouse said:
    I could be wrong but that looks like polishing rouge from the buffing..
    Yeah, that's possible I suppose, never thought of that.
    I've seen it on a few before - commonly it's white but I've def. seen traces of red on some from the initial cutting rather than final polishing (which I believe is the white). 

    There was a ring of red rouge under the felt of a strap button on my '74 precision when I took the button off for a clean and it came off (tho it was stubborn). Which implies Fender polished it with the button on (madness!!)
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  • thegummythegummy Frets: 4389
    TA22GT said:
    I've refrained from posting this as it sounds beyond belief but it's totally true. I think it was the 94 show.

    Through connections with the music trade I've been to NAAM a few times. My pals have made lot's of connections there and one time we stayed at the Manager of the Gibson Dobro plants apartment for the duration. He was off from work to be at NAAM but got called in to the factory and asked if we would like to go with him and then straight to Anaheim.
    Yes please!

    I got the shock of my life. It was a very dirty, dark place. The way they were operating was beyond belief. There were about a dozen or so workers there, all migrants, and only two spoke decent English.
     One was better than the other so we were told he had been made the foreman as he could pass on instructions to the others. Nothing to do with his mechanical skills.

    The problem he had been called in for was because the necks were being set in at the wrong angle resulting in an action of about 5/8ths of an inch at the body. The guy who had been doing that job had left and there was nobody there skilled enough to take over. 
    The Foremen brought it to light because they had just had a batch of guitars rejected by a dealer arrive back the day before and he wanted to know what to do about it.
    The Manager was a really nice guy but he had only management skills and zero practical skills so couldn't explain how to rectify it.
    I picked up a couple of the completed guitars and they were totally unplayable. Pressing any fret down caused a seriously sharp note. 
    The Manager friend left not long after and I don't know if they ever sorted it but I believe, not sure, they are closed now.
    I wonder if the "guitar racists" who think Americans are somehow better at building guitars than people from other countries know that it's immigrants who can't speak English building their Gibsons.
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  • TA22GTTA22GT Frets: 362
    thegummy said:
    TA22GT said:
    I've refrained from posting this as it sounds beyond belief but it's totally true. I think it was the 94 show.

    Through connections with the music trade I've been to NAAM a few times. My pals have made lot's of connections there and one time we stayed at the Manager of the Gibson Dobro plants apartment for the duration. He was off from work to be at NAAM but got called in to the factory and asked if we would like to go with him and then straight to Anaheim.
    Yes please!

    I got the shock of my life. It was a very dirty, dark place. The way they were operating was beyond belief. There were about a dozen or so workers there, all migrants, and only two spoke decent English.
     One was better than the other so we were told he had been made the foreman as he could pass on instructions to the others. Nothing to do with his mechanical skills.

    The problem he had been called in for was because the necks were being set in at the wrong angle resulting in an action of about 5/8ths of an inch at the body. The guy who had been doing that job had left and there was nobody there skilled enough to take over. 
    The Foremen brought it to light because they had just had a batch of guitars rejected by a dealer arrive back the day before and he wanted to know what to do about it.
    The Manager was a really nice guy but he had only management skills and zero practical skills so couldn't explain how to rectify it.
    I picked up a couple of the completed guitars and they were totally unplayable. Pressing any fret down caused a seriously sharp note. 
    The Manager friend left not long after and I don't know if they ever sorted it but I believe, not sure, they are closed now.
    I wonder if the "guitar racists" who think Americans are somehow better at building guitars than people from other countries know that it's immigrants who can't speak English building their Gibsons.
    Well....I can understand your comment because I have read that sort of thing too.

    I wasn't in anyway trying to be disparaging about them being immigrants. It was the shock of unskilled workers who could barely communicate with management that floored me. Nationality or colour of skin had nothing to do with it.

    When I was a kid I took a bus ride, then a train, then another bus to visit a shop in Leeds that "had a Gibson guitar in stock!"
    I was 14 and me and my mates stared at it for hours! Eventually the shop guy let me play it and I duly played my 3 chords and was smitten for life. As I got older I vowed to own a Gibson one day.

    I eventually did and was over the moon at owning one. It had that fabulous and coveted name on the headstock. Wow!

    I couldn't believe what I saw in that factory. I suppose I expected to see craftsmen with chisels and wearing aprons. It opened my eyes so much that I lost faith in that magical myth of Gibson.

    Having said all this I have also seen some really great Gibsons come in to my friends previous store so just buy with an open mind and open eyes.
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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24578
    TA22GT said:

    I couldn't believe what I saw in that factory. I suppose I expected to see craftsmen with chisels and wearing aprons. It opened my eyes so much that I lost faith in that magical myth of Gibson.


    There was a time when..


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  • TA22GTTA22GT Frets: 362
    TA22GT said:

    I couldn't believe what I saw in that factory. I suppose I expected to see craftsmen with chisels and wearing aprons. It opened my eyes so much that I lost faith in that magical myth of Gibson.


    There was a time when..


    Exactly what I expected! Although there is daylight in that pic. It was dark and dingey where I was.
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  • thegummythegummy Frets: 4389
    TA22GT said:
    thegummy said:
    TA22GT said:
    I've refrained from posting this as it sounds beyond belief but it's totally true. I think it was the 94 show.

    Through connections with the music trade I've been to NAAM a few times. My pals have made lot's of connections there and one time we stayed at the Manager of the Gibson Dobro plants apartment for the duration. He was off from work to be at NAAM but got called in to the factory and asked if we would like to go with him and then straight to Anaheim.
    Yes please!

    I got the shock of my life. It was a very dirty, dark place. The way they were operating was beyond belief. There were about a dozen or so workers there, all migrants, and only two spoke decent English.
     One was better than the other so we were told he had been made the foreman as he could pass on instructions to the others. Nothing to do with his mechanical skills.

    The problem he had been called in for was because the necks were being set in at the wrong angle resulting in an action of about 5/8ths of an inch at the body. The guy who had been doing that job had left and there was nobody there skilled enough to take over. 
    The Foremen brought it to light because they had just had a batch of guitars rejected by a dealer arrive back the day before and he wanted to know what to do about it.
    The Manager was a really nice guy but he had only management skills and zero practical skills so couldn't explain how to rectify it.
    I picked up a couple of the completed guitars and they were totally unplayable. Pressing any fret down caused a seriously sharp note. 
    The Manager friend left not long after and I don't know if they ever sorted it but I believe, not sure, they are closed now.
    I wonder if the "guitar racists" who think Americans are somehow better at building guitars than people from other countries know that it's immigrants who can't speak English building their Gibsons.
    Well....I can understand your comment because I have read that sort of thing too.

    I wasn't in anyway trying to be disparaging about them being immigrants. It was the shock of unskilled workers who could barely communicate with management that floored me. Nationality or colour of skin had nothing to do with it.

    When I was a kid I took a bus ride, then a train, then another bus to visit a shop in Leeds that "had a Gibson guitar in stock!"
    I was 14 and me and my mates stared at it for hours! Eventually the shop guy let me play it and I duly played my 3 chords and was smitten for life. As I got older I vowed to own a Gibson one day.

    I eventually did and was over the moon at owning one. It had that fabulous and coveted name on the headstock. Wow!

    I couldn't believe what I saw in that factory. I suppose I expected to see craftsmen with chisels and wearing aprons. It opened my eyes so much that I lost faith in that magical myth of Gibson.

    Having said all this I have also seen some really great Gibsons come in to my friends previous store so just buy with an open mind and open eyes.
    Sorry if my comment came across in the wrong way - I don't think for a second you were being disparaging about them, I took it you were mentioning it to highlight that the foreman had been promoted on his ability to speak English rather than anything to do with the job.

    I know you're not one of those "guitar racists" as I happen to know you're a fellow appreciator of a certain Korean-made guitar :) 
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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24578
    @TA22GT - that's Kalamazoo, 1936. 

    22 years later that room would have been full of LP Burst bodies......
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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24578
    @TA22GT - that's Kalamazoo, 1936. 

    22 years later that room would have been full of LP Burst bodies......
    Just think..


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  • TA22GTTA22GT Frets: 362
    thegummy said:
    TA22GT said:
    thegummy said:
    TA22GT said:
    I've refrained from posting this as it sounds beyond belief but it's totally true. I think it was the 94 show.

    Through connections with the music trade I've been to NAAM a few times. My pals have made lot's of connections there and one time we stayed at the Manager of the Gibson Dobro plants apartment for the duration. He was off from work to be at NAAM but got called in to the factory and asked if we would like to go with him and then straight to Anaheim.
    Yes please!

    I got the shock of my life. It was a very dirty, dark place. The way they were operating was beyond belief. There were about a dozen or so workers there, all migrants, and only two spoke decent English.
     One was better than the other so we were told he had been made the foreman as he could pass on instructions to the others. Nothing to do with his mechanical skills.

    The problem he had been called in for was because the necks were being set in at the wrong angle resulting in an action of about 5/8ths of an inch at the body. The guy who had been doing that job had left and there was nobody there skilled enough to take over. 
    The Foremen brought it to light because they had just had a batch of guitars rejected by a dealer arrive back the day before and he wanted to know what to do about it.
    The Manager was a really nice guy but he had only management skills and zero practical skills so couldn't explain how to rectify it.
    I picked up a couple of the completed guitars and they were totally unplayable. Pressing any fret down caused a seriously sharp note. 
    The Manager friend left not long after and I don't know if they ever sorted it but I believe, not sure, they are closed now.
    I wonder if the "guitar racists" who think Americans are somehow better at building guitars than people from other countries know that it's immigrants who can't speak English building their Gibsons.
    Well....I can understand your comment because I have read that sort of thing too.

    I wasn't in anyway trying to be disparaging about them being immigrants. It was the shock of unskilled workers who could barely communicate with management that floored me. Nationality or colour of skin had nothing to do with it.

    When I was a kid I took a bus ride, then a train, then another bus to visit a shop in Leeds that "had a Gibson guitar in stock!"
    I was 14 and me and my mates stared at it for hours! Eventually the shop guy let me play it and I duly played my 3 chords and was smitten for life. As I got older I vowed to own a Gibson one day.

    I eventually did and was over the moon at owning one. It had that fabulous and coveted name on the headstock. Wow!

    I couldn't believe what I saw in that factory. I suppose I expected to see craftsmen with chisels and wearing aprons. It opened my eyes so much that I lost faith in that magical myth of Gibson.

    Having said all this I have also seen some really great Gibsons come in to my friends previous store so just buy with an open mind and open eyes.
    Sorry if my comment came across in the wrong way - I don't think for a second you were being disparaging about them, I took it you were mentioning it to highlight that the foreman had been promoted on his ability to speak English rather than anything to do with the job.

    I know you're not one of those "guitar racists" as I happen to know you're a fellow appreciator of a certain Korean-made guitar :) 

    All's cool! I know you didn't mean anything too but there are people who still believe "only a Gibson is good enough"

    Some of them really are good enough!!

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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24578
    I tried to find a photo of Henry doing a QC inspection in the factory like Ted used to do in the photo above.. but.. um...
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  • TA22GTTA22GT Frets: 362
    Good luck with that one.

    Actually there is a pic of him destroying an SG.........maybe it didn't make the grade??!
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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24578
    TA22GT said:
    Good luck with that one.

    Actually there is a pic of him destroying an SG.........maybe it didn't make the grade??!
    There's plenty of shots of him destroying Les Pauls.. well, destroying whatever he's attempting to play on them ;)
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71950
    TA22GT said:

    Actually there is a pic of him destroying an SG.........maybe it didn't make the grade??!
    He mistook it for the Firewood X.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 4700
    edited July 2018
    TA22GT said:
    I've refrained from posting this as it sounds beyond belief but it's totally true. I think it was the 94 show.

    Through connections with the music trade I've been to NAAM a few times. My pals have made lot's of connections there and one time we stayed at the Manager of the Gibson Dobro plants apartment for the duration. He was off from work to be at NAAM but got called in to the factory and asked if we would like to go with him and then straight to Anaheim.
    Yes please!

    I got the shock of my life. It was a very dirty, dark place. The way they were operating was beyond belief. There were about a dozen or so workers there, all migrants, and only two spoke decent English.
     One was better than the other so we were told he had been made the foreman as he could pass on instructions to the others. Nothing to do with his mechanical skills.

    The problem he had been called in for was because the necks were being set in at the wrong angle resulting in an action of about 5/8ths of an inch at the body. The guy who had been doing that job had left and there was nobody there skilled enough to take over. 
    The Foremen brought it to light because they had just had a batch of guitars rejected by a dealer arrive back the day before and he wanted to know what to do about it.
    The Manager was a really nice guy but he had only management skills and zero practical skills so couldn't explain how to rectify it.
    I picked up a couple of the completed guitars and they were totally unplayable. Pressing any fret down caused a seriously sharp note. 
    The Manager friend left not long after and I don't know if they ever sorted it but I believe, not sure, they are closed now.
    Gibson acquired Dobro in late 1993 and moved production to Nashville a few years later so they inherited the factory and it's issues, so I guess they inherited this situation? Who knows...... but I suspect the timescale from acquisition to actually changing things was within the time you visited.

    Plus it was just Dobro guitars built there before the move, not any of the Gibson solid bodies, ES, acoustics etc., so no I wouldn't assume any of the "guitar racists" would be bothered as they didn't build any Gibsons in Anaheim. I couldn't care who built mine, could've built by smackheads on the estate I grew up on, it's a great guitar and it matters not. 

    My head said brake, but my heart cried never.


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  • TA22GTTA22GT Frets: 362
    @Boromedic ;   Great information, thank you!

    Yes, it was just Dobro being made there and although my memory of the place is quite vivid, I can't be 100% sure of what was said but I do seem to remember him saying he had been thrown in at the deep end or words to that effect. He was out of his depth and he admitted it as he was strictly an office kind of guy.
     
    Maybe the change of ownership is why some people left? Who knows!

    It would have been NAAM 94 then in January. 
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  • So what happened with Gibson going bust? 
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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 4700
    edited July 2018
    No worries, I was curious that's all, it is a great story and I'm glad you shared it. Just wanted to see what the story was at the time. Probably was why people left, once the company was sold, people scared of the corporate behemoth!

    My head said brake, but my heart cried never.


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  • ChalkyChalky Frets: 6807
    I've owned 7 Gibsons, never had any issues (except the doubling of prices)
    I used to own a couple of dozen Gibsons, now down to a dozen or so. One has a dodgy tuner but thats the only issue.

    But I don't think our stories fit the worldview of those who love to think Gibson QC is awful so we'll just be ignored :)
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