Turbos on cars

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HAL9000HAL9000 Frets: 4045
Looking at changing my current car sometime soon. At the moment I've got a normally aspirated 1.3 Toyota which is generally OK but lacks any real oomph when overtaking - especially up any sort of a gradient.

I'm liking the look of the Honda Civic, and see that it comes with a 1.2 turbo (or a 1.5 turbo on the Sport).

I haven't driven one yet, but presume that the turbo gives a very significant power boost. After all, 1.2 (or 1.5) litres doesn't sound very much and the Civic is a rather larger car than my current set of wheels.
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  • RaymondLinRaymondLin Frets: 3703
    It depends on the size of the turbo, it's just a way making horsepower.

    Significant? depends what you compare it to bit you will feel it.
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  • PC_DavePC_Dave Frets: 1487
    A turbo in modern small engines is a way to keep moderate power but with less emissions. They’re not like the older turbo engines which benefited from massive boost pressure. 
    This week's procrastination forum might be moved to sometime next week.
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  • menamestommenamestom Frets: 2333

    The missus has 1 litre 3 cylinder Ford C-max and the engine is excellent.  Good low down torque and pulls well.  We've been all over Europe in it and it sailed up mountainous roads.  If going for a small petrol I'd definitely go for a turbo.  The 1L ecoboost I'm talking about is far better than many 1.6 normally aspirated engines I've tried recently.

    My brother has the 140bhp version in a Fiesta and it flies.  
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  • ronnybronnyb Frets: 546
    They seem to be putting these small turbo charged 1 litre engines in all manner of cars. Just makes me wonder if the engines will last long.
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  • slackerslacker Frets: 955
    In my experience engines last longer than turbos. 
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  • Axe_meisterAxe_meister Frets: 2264
    We have the new Civic. It's actually only 1l. But with 128bhp. Pulls better than our old 1.6 Diesel once you get over the turbo lag.
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  • ThorpyFXThorpyFX Frets: 4320
    my wifes car is a 1.5 petrol engine turbo and that has 150bhp. it appears to be the best way to achieve power and economy. drives really well too.
    Adrian Thorpe MBE | Owner of ThorpyFx Ltd | Email: thorpy@thorpyfx.com | Twitter: @ThorpyFx | Facebook: ThorpyFx Ltd | Website: www.thorpyfx.com
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  • RiftAmpsRiftAmps Frets: 1297
    Modern 3-pot petrol turbos are brilliant, usually equivalent of a conventional L4 1.6 or 1.8. The Honda 1.0 VTEC Turbo is sensational and best in class. Similar units from Ford, VW, and Vauxhall are all on par with each other.

    Go test drive one with an open mind, you'll be surprised.
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  • MayneheadMaynehead Frets: 1174
    The modern small turbo engines are pretty smooth, they give good economy with more power when required.

    My Fabia has a 1.4L engine that generates 180 BHP. Pretty amazing how much they can push the limits nowadays.
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  • Axe_meisterAxe_meister Frets: 2264
    My other car (Fiat 124 spider) has a 1.4 Turbo pushing 140bhp. With a simple remap it can do 170 out of The box. With a few add ons and remap 230bhp is entirely possible.
    And boy does it have some midrange punch.
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  • 57Deluxe57Deluxe Frets: 5906
    edited July 12
    Mini Cooper has 3cyl and a Turbo and goes like the crackers - out the box
    <Vintage BOSS Upgrades>
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  • celentiumcelentium Frets: 200
    215 bhp 1.6 turbo here. It's fast and fuel economy is very good for the performance. 
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  • menamestommenamestom Frets: 2333
    ronnyb said:
    They seem to be putting these small turbo charged 1 litre engines in all manner of cars. Just makes me wonder if the engines will last long.
    Lots of examples hitting high miles now.  Like any new tech failures are usually early on, ford for example had an issue with the 1L with a coolent hose, and had to have a recall.   Ours has done 46k now but many are over 100k.
    What you can’t simulate is 15 years of short journeys / cold starts, only time will test the engines in that way.

    Also worth pointing out that there have been many issues with the big robust diesel engines, BMW had failure issues with their 2l, my neighbour for example spent 10k on a 320d a while ago then spent 5k on a new engine a few weeks later.  A known issue with the timing chain/belt I believe.


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  • My wife has a Nissan Qashqai with a 1.2 Turbo pertrol engine and it's bloody brilliant.

    I wont say it's fast but it's nippy. Fully loaded with us two, two kids and everything but the kitchen sink, it gets about no problem!!
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  • rlwrlw Frets: 1696
    The only issue is that some of these cars are quite high geared as well, so autos can be a bit frustrating as they try to stay in the highest gear possible.   mrsrlw bought a Scirocco R a few months ago and it drives me barmy, trying  to be in 5th at 25 mph and 6th at 30mph.
    Save a cow.  Eat a vegetarian.
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 14087
    rlw said:
    The only issue is that some of these cars are quite high geared as well, so autos can be a bit frustrating as they try to stay in the highest gear possible.   mrsrlw bought a Scirocco R a few months ago and it drives me barmy, trying  to be in 5th at 25 mph and 6th at 30mph.
    There's usually a Sport mode on VW DSGs that makes them a bit keener - even my Alltrack has that. I normally use Eco mode for the coasting, but Sport mode for tricky junctions (it also adjusts the AWD setup to push more power to the back wheels).
    Be your own evil twin. 
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  • randellarandella Frets: 1871
    Another vote for small turbos, the Peugeot 1l is great, the VAG 1.4 TFSI in 150bhp tune in a Leon pulls like a train.  They're refined on the motorway too.

    I have a courtesy car at the moment, a Nissan Juke in poverty-spec 1.6 normally-aspirated guise.  It's crap.  I would take any small turbocharged unit instead in a heartbeat.
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  • rlwrlw Frets: 1696
    edited July 13
    Sporky said:
    rlw said:
    The only issue is that some of these cars are quite high geared as well, so autos can be a bit frustrating as they try to stay in the highest gear possible.   mrsrlw bought a Scirocco R a few months ago and it drives me barmy, trying  to be in 5th at 25 mph and 6th at 30mph.
    There's usually a Sport mode on VW DSGs that makes them a bit keener - even my Alltrack has that. I normally use Eco mode for the coasting, but Sport mode for tricky junctions (it also adjusts the AWD setup to push more power to the back wheels).
    You are quite correct but it has the opposite effect and hangs onto the lower gears for far too long and doesn't change up until around 3500 or more rpm.  A bit of thought and they could have had one, perfect, mode.

    I am, of course, utterly spolit, as my 55AMG, in sport, changes up  just beyond the torque peak and drops you right back into it in the next gear - effing brilliant, but easy with 380ft/lbs of torque........................

    In stark contract to my 944 turbo which began to wind itself up slowly from around 2000rpm, only to go berserk at 3000rpm on full boost................

    Anyway, turbos on small engines are good.  Even Porsche have dropped two cylinders and added turbos to the Boxster/Cayman range and, while not sounding so good, are better to drive than the six cylinder motors.


    Save a cow.  Eat a vegetarian.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 3888

    These small engines aren't all good:

    https://www.driving.co.uk/news/eco-engines-are-among-the-most-polluting-according-to-new-emissions-index/

    VW have started adding particulate filters to theirs.  Wait to see if other manufacturers follow suit.

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  • ModellistaModellista Frets: 900
    A small turbo petrol is the best of all worlds for an everyday car.  Petrol driveability with diesel fuel efficiency.  Our 1.4 TSI Golf is not far off 10 years old now - it's never missed a beat and still feels faster than its 122bhp label.  It loves to rev, but can also do 30mph in 5th if you want, just over tickover, without complaint.  No diesel smell or noise.  A brilliant engine for a medium size car.  And the new ones have even more power for the same fuel consumption.  Diesel seems like the fuel of the past now.
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  • ModellistaModellista Frets: 900
    edited July 13
    Small normally-aspirated petrols are still awful though.  Had a brand new Tipo hire car on holiday a few weeks ago.  1.4NA with 90bhp.  Had to change down to *4TH* to get up small inclines on the motorway.  I still can't quite believe they're still making such awful engines.  I think my first car, a carburated F-reg 1.3 Astra, had more poke.  I guess it could loosen up with age, but not enough to make it worth it.  Turbo all the way.
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  • rlwrlw Frets: 1696
    Small normally-aspirated petrols are still awful though.  Had a brand new Tipo hire car on holiday a few weeks ago.  1.4NA with 90bhp.  Had to change down to *4TH* to get up small inclines on the motorway.  I still can't quite believe they're still making such awful engines.  I think my first car, a carburated F-reg 1.3 Astra, had more poke.  I guess it could loosen up with age, but not enough to make it worth it.  Turbo all the way.
    Being a FIAT, it probably won't last long enough to loosen up with age   ;)
    Save a cow.  Eat a vegetarian.
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 14087
    rlw said:
    Sporky said:
    rlw said:
    The only issue is that some of these cars are quite high geared as well, so autos can be a bit frustrating as they try to stay in the highest gear possible.   mrsrlw bought a Scirocco R a few months ago and it drives me barmy, trying  to be in 5th at 25 mph and 6th at 30mph.
    There's usually a Sport mode on VW DSGs that makes them a bit keener - even my Alltrack has that. I normally use Eco mode for the coasting, but Sport mode for tricky junctions (it also adjusts the AWD setup to push more power to the back wheels).
    You are quite correct but it has the opposite effect and hangs onto the lower gears for far too long and doesn't change up until around 3500 or more rpm.  A bit of thought and they could have had one, perfect, mode.

    And you are quite correct there!

    More rear bias in the AWD system past 50% throttle, Sport shifts past 50% throttle, link with the GPS to see if I'm stopped at a junction, in which case Sport mode, otherwise Eco mode with coasting. And adaptive headlights all the time. And disable auto stop-start at roundabouts.
    Be your own evil twin. 
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  • menamestommenamestom Frets: 2333
    edited July 13
    crunchman said:

    These small engines aren't all good:

    https://www.driving.co.uk/news/eco-engines-are-among-the-most-polluting-according-to-new-emissions-index/

    VW have started adding particulate filters to theirs.  Wait to see if other manufacturers follow suit.


    Something must have already changed as the 1l ecoboost is A+ if you search on the equa index website.
    Interestingly if you search under ford and put in '123' as the keyword, it brings up all the 123 bhp  iterations of the 1l ecoboost engine and you can see the engine started as an 'E' and ends up A+.  Also of note the A+ rating it appeared before the article, so it doesn't seem to match up.

    https://equaindex.com/equa-air-quality-index/

    EDIT, the 5L mustang is also A+, so I don't think getting the 1L to the same rating is a great achievement!

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  • RockerRocker Frets: 2800
    edited July 13
    The Toyota Prius has that poke the OP is looking for. The battery kicks in when it is really needed. 
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

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  • GarthyGarthy Frets: 2011
    randella said:
    Another vote for small turbos, the Peugeot 1l is great, the VAG 1.4 TFSI in 150bhp tune in a Leon pulls like a train.  They're refined on the motorway too.

    I have a courtesy car at the moment, a Nissan Juke in poverty-spec 1.6 normally-aspirated guise.  It's crap.  I would take any small turbocharged unit instead in a heartbeat.
    People perceive rate of change very badly, I've had a turbo car with double the torque of my N/A car and passengers would be utterly convinced that the turbo car was much, much faster especially in the mid range, the N/A car is actually faster in gear, especially in 4th and 5th.
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  • maltingsaudiomaltingsaudio Frets: 946
    edited July 13
    Turbo on my car just gone tits up £500 and counting fxxing  great day... Rant over

    EGR valve and VG something solenoid for those who want to know
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  • DeadmanDeadman Frets: 2593
    edited July 13
    I love my BMW diesel turbo. Six cylinder 3 litre 250bhp/500NM of torque. The power is unbelieveable. Notably there's no lag whatsoever. 

    My company car is an Insignia 2.0cdti. Goes well, around 150bhp I think, but turbo lags at low speed and you have to adjust your revs, especially when pulling out of junctions etc.

    I had a 1.0t Focus on loan a while ago. Had I not known it was 1 litre it would have fooled me into thinking it was 1.6 plus.
    My trading feedback is here 
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  • randellarandella Frets: 1871
    Garthy said:
    randella said:
    Another vote for small turbos, the Peugeot 1l is great, the VAG 1.4 TFSI in 150bhp tune in a Leon pulls like a train.  They're refined on the motorway too.

    I have a courtesy car at the moment, a Nissan Juke in poverty-spec 1.6 normally-aspirated guise.  It's crap.  I would take any small turbocharged unit instead in a heartbeat.
    People perceive rate of change very badly, I've had a turbo car with double the torque of my N/A car and passengers would be utterly convinced that the turbo car was much, much faster especially in the mid range, the N/A car is actually faster in gear, especially in 4th and 5th.
    I won't deny it, but in everyday driving I like turbocharged engines - my lazy turbodiesel might only get off a dual-carriageway roundabout as quickly as an N/A petrol car with the same horsepower and half the torque, but it's a damn sight more relaxing way to do it than having to wring out every last rev.

    Which I also like doing, BTW - but I'm getting old.  And my commute has a *lot* of dual-carriageway roundabouts. :)
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 14087
    I'd also suggest that with traffic as it is, and cameras omnipresent, a car that feels faster than it is is probably better than a car that is faster than it feels.

    All the perceived wooooosh without the nee-nahs and flashy blue lights spoiling it.
    Be your own evil twin. 
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