Refinishing a guitar without making it perfect?

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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16546
    Nah, you can always run a drill backwards on a slow speed to clean out the holes
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  • dwheeldodwheeldo Frets: 65
    WezV said:
    Nah, you can always run a drill backwards on a slow speed to clean out the holes
    Ah, great call. Nice one Wez.
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  • dwheeldodwheeldo Frets: 65
    Time for an update on this one. So far I've:

    - Grain-filled and sanded back to 240 - this did a pretty effective job of filling low spots and dings, but possibly not such a good job of filling the actual grain (see below)...
    - Applied 3 coats of sanding sealer and sanded back to 400
    - Applied 2 very light coats of primer

    Unfortunately, I didn't notice the low spots in the grain (see pic) until after the primer dried - I guess because primer raises the grain. I've since sanded it smooth, and while they're now much less visible, I fear they need to be dealt with.

    So at this stage, can I re-apply grain filler to the problem areas, or will that mess with the primer and sanding sealer?

    (Note that the dark spots in the image are just areas where the previous stain had soaked further into the wood, not low spots.)


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  • dwheeldodwheeldo Frets: 65
    @rexter - At this point should I be nipping down to Halfords and buying some putty?
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  • rexterrexter Frets: 369
    edited July 2018 tFB Trader
    Hey man, sorry a bit slow off the mark... I'm confused - the pic above looks like you don't have primer on it? But you do?
    Maybe i'm being thick, it's highly possible lately... 

    If it's at the stage above it looks like you could hit it with quality grain filler again, but if it is primed with white etc it does get a little trickier in my experience and that's when I normally reach for the acrylic putty or auto glaze stuff. Good adhesion over painted surfaces.

    I had a similar situation lately with a very porous swamp ash body after priming where I actually ended up going along the grain lines individually with putty and squeezing across the grain a few mm at a time with a plastic scraper forcing the putty down into the grain. 

    Took a while to do each individually but did work. Then sanded flat and another coat of primer for luck.
    What colour are you going for in the end? 
    Custom colours, vintage restorations, high end guitar finishing
    www.rexterguitars.co.uk
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    "Refinishing a guitar without making it perfect?"

    Might get you a job working for Gibson.

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  • dwheeldodwheeldo Frets: 65
    rexter said:
    Hey man, sorry a bit slow off the mark... I'm confused - the pic above looks like you don't have primer on it? But you do?
    Maybe i'm being thick, it's highly possible lately... 

    If it's at the stage above it looks like you could hit it with quality grain filler again, but if it is primed with white etc it does get a little trickier in my experience and that's when I normally reach for the acrylic putty or auto glaze stuff. Good adhesion over painted surfaces.

    I had a similar situation lately with a very porous swamp ash body after priming where I actually ended up going along the grain lines individually with putty and squeezing across the grain a few mm at a time with a plastic scraper forcing the putty down into the grain. 

    Took a while to do each individually but did work. Then sanded flat and another coat of primer for luck.
    What colour are you going for in the end? 
    Thanks for the reply Rexter, and no worries about the delay - the lesson I'm learning about nitro finishing is that you can't do it in a hurry anyway ;)

    Although it's hard to see in the photo, there is a light coat of primer on there - I wanted to check that the wood was all good before I laid it on too thick. Glad I did now!

    Is there any significant risk to me using water-based grain filler now? Is the risk that it won't stick to the primer? I'm tempted to give it a go, using the same sort of method as you described, but I don't want to do it if it'll bugger up the final finish.

    Oh, and the final colour I'm going for is Olympic white.
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  • dwheeldodwheeldo Frets: 65
    octatonic said:
    "Refinishing a guitar without making it perfect?"

    Might get you a job working for Gibson.

    Ha. Unfortunately I've now developed an obsession with making it perfect, so Gibson will have to look elsewhere.
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  • rexterrexter Frets: 369
    tFB Trader
    dwheeldo said:
    rexter said:
    Hey man, sorry a bit slow off the mark... I'm confused - the pic above looks like you don't have primer on it? But you do?
    Maybe i'm being thick, it's highly possible lately... 

    If it's at the stage above it looks like you could hit it with quality grain filler again, but if it is primed with white etc it does get a little trickier in my experience and that's when I normally reach for the acrylic putty or auto glaze stuff. Good adhesion over painted surfaces.

    I had a similar situation lately with a very porous swamp ash body after priming where I actually ended up going along the grain lines individually with putty and squeezing across the grain a few mm at a time with a plastic scraper forcing the putty down into the grain. 

    Took a while to do each individually but did work. Then sanded flat and another coat of primer for luck.
    What colour are you going for in the end? 
    Thanks for the reply Rexter, and no worries about the delay - the lesson I'm learning about nitro finishing is that you can't do it in a hurry anyway ;)

    Although it's hard to see in the photo, there is a light coat of primer on there - I wanted to check that the wood was all good before I laid it on too thick. Glad I did now!

    Is there any significant risk to me using water-based grain filler now? Is the risk that it won't stick to the primer? I'm tempted to give it a go, using the same sort of method as you described, but I don't want to do it if it'll bugger up the final finish.

    Oh, and the final colour I'm going for is Olympic white.
    Ah ok makes sense! The coat of primer looks thin enough that you could use your grainfiller again. It's common to do it over a layer of sealer so don't see why it shouldn't work. Obviously just leave it at least 24 hours before sanding pack and spraying more primer.

    Was priming a '66 Jaguar body that has a lot of big dings and dents yesterday and it made me think of this thread. The primer coat has filled some of the smaller imperfections but revealed larger areas that will need the putty treatment! Then another coat of primer.

    Don't be afraid to slather the primer on in the knowledge that you will flat it back to a level, smooth surface. I also started thinning mine much less than I used to which gives it better filling properties but understand with aerosols that's probably not helpful.

    Sure this will turn out good - you're definitely taking your time to get it right - the most common mistake is to get carried away and rush it!
    Custom colours, vintage restorations, high end guitar finishing
    www.rexterguitars.co.uk
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  • dwheeldodwheeldo Frets: 65
    Thanks again @rexter. I sanded the primer right back last night, and now I'm pretty confident grain filling again is the right thing to do, unpleasant as that stuff is to work with. I'm also going to try using a slightly thinner mix for the filler than I did first time around to really get it into those pesky ash pores. Times like this I wish it was alder ;)

    And yeah, I'll make sure I layer up the primer next time - once I'm sure the grain's well and truly filled!

    I doubt I'll end up refinishing another guitar for a long old time, so I want to make sure I get this one right.
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  • dwheeldodwheeldo Frets: 65
    Also, if you need anyone to look after that '66 Jag when it's done, I'd be happy to help.
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  • rexterrexter Frets: 369
    tFB Trader
    Yeah, ash can be a pain, often takes two runs with the filler unless you smother it - even then sometimes.
    I'm just waiting for a few tins of Rustins to arrive myself actually and have to revisit a tele body that had issues at the primer stage. going to need some refilling  :/
    Custom colours, vintage restorations, high end guitar finishing
    www.rexterguitars.co.uk
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  • dwheeldodwheeldo Frets: 65
    rexter said:
    Yeah, ash can be a pain, often takes two runs with the filler unless you smother it - even then sometimes.
    I'm just waiting for a few tins of Rustins to arrive myself actually and have to revisit a tele body that had issues at the primer stage. going to need some refilling  :/
    Ah, the joys of refinishing. You must have the patience of a saint to do it as a job!
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  • rexterrexter Frets: 369
    tFB Trader
    dwheeldo said:
    rexter said:
    Yeah, ash can be a pain, often takes two runs with the filler unless you smother it - even then sometimes.
    I'm just waiting for a few tins of Rustins to arrive myself actually and have to revisit a tele body that had issues at the primer stage. going to need some refilling  :/
    Ah, the joys of refinishing. You must have the patience of a saint to do it as a job!
    I question my sanity on a daily basis! 
    Custom colours, vintage restorations, high end guitar finishing
    www.rexterguitars.co.uk
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  • dwheeldodwheeldo Frets: 65
    Update time. This time with photos!

    I've had some time off work the last week, so I've really been able to obsess about focus on this refinish job. I don't think I had any idea how much time and effort it was going to take up, so kudos to those of you that do this kind of thing all the time and thanks for chipping in with your advice - I'd be floundering without it. Anyway, I'm finally starting to get somewhere with it now, and today I sprayed what I hope to be the final colour coats, leaving just clear to go.

    Here's a picture to give you an idea of the kind of mess the body was in when I started. The poly was hacked off by a friend, who then stained without sanding properly or grain filling. It had to be done in two days before a tour, so it was a rush job with the idea of finishing it off properly later. That was four years ago! It's only now that I can really appreciate what a state the poor bugger was in.


    And this is what it looks like now, after a whole load of grain filler, primer, more grain filler, more primer, some putty and about 9 coats of olympic white nitro. Now if you look too closely there are still lots of little imperfections, but that was the aim at the beginning of the thread, right?!




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  • Today I finally had a chance to wet sand and buff. For the first time in almost two months it's back in action... although it might get limited playing time compared with the nice new Jaguar I got last week. Oops.

    It needs another pass of T-Cut to really get it gleaming, but here it is.


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  • GagarynGagaryn Frets: 1553
    Result!
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  • rexterrexter Frets: 369
    tFB Trader
    Looks great! White is quite a tricky one too. Nice work
    Custom colours, vintage restorations, high end guitar finishing
    www.rexterguitars.co.uk
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  • rexter said:
    Looks great! White is quite a tricky one too. Nice work
    Tell me about it! I managed to trap a good few specks of dust in there. I’ll be referring to it as a ‘rustic’ finish in case anyone looks at it too closely ;)  Nowhere near the standard of your fine workmanship sir!

    I'm not convinced the water-based grain filler was quite up to the job - even after two applications there’s a bit of grain sinkage. And there are a few old bumps and bruises still showing through the finish of the light catches it.

    But it was a fairly ambitious project for a first attempt, given the state of it when I started, so I’m pretty pleased overall.  

    Thanks for for your help along the way mate - this forum is bloody marvellous.
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