Drum machines - expound your knowledge here!

What's Hot
Hi all,

If one were to want to try to use a drum machine live (you only have to punch the rhythm into a machine once etc etc etc) what would be a decent but cost effective option?

I'd like to use it for preloaded phrases, either as full songs (midi files?) or as phrases for verse, chorus, solo etc, as it may be a good alternative to just using backing tracks stored on a looper. But being able to tap in a rhythm live to loop it over and over until stopped would also be a good feature.

I use a vst on my PC which has a model called Acetone which I quite like, but a quick google suggests these are old and rare and spendy. I tend to prefer electro sounding drums, in particular the bass and snare, but wouldn't be averse to something that could do sounds that were nearer realistic drums.

Or would i just be better loading midis to my Yamaha MX49 keyboard?

Many thanks all
Please note my communication is not very good, so please be patient with me
soundcloud.com/thecolourbox-1
youtube.com/@TheColourboxMusic
0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
«1

Comments

  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14323
    If you have the drum parts for individual songs sussed out, the most practical approach is to load MIDI sequence data into a device that can replay them. This method will require remote foot controls for Stop/Start and Next.

    Real time selection of Patterns and Songs is the preserve of DJs and electro dance music artistes. i.e. Performers whose hands are not occupied with string musical instruments.

    The Acetone rhythm machine series are, indeed, collector's items. Simple push button accompaniment devices intended for organists. Preset "style" patterns rather than any programming in the modern sense. I suspect that the plug-in instrument has isolated the individual percussive sounds to enable proper pattern writing, compound time signatures and tempo changes.

    http://fingerlab.net/portfolio/dm1
    https://www.arturia.com/spark-vdm/details
    Be seeing you.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 9654
    Thanks Nigel, some good points there I think.
    I mentioned Acetone as that's mainly the one I use but to be honest, there is a Boss/Roland (I think) sim on the same vst which covers much the same ground and it's probably a fairly generic sound I'd need for it anyway to be honest. Probably just needs Bass, snare, hihat open and closed, cymbal and either a clap or a click.

    Being able to punch something in would be nice, though I understand your reservations with it, I suppose it's something that would be more useful down the line. What I thought that would be useful for would be for doing a basic 2 bar drum phrase to loop over and over just to keep the beat, for the more flexible jam type songs. A bit like somebody banging a tambourine for example. I guess that would have to just be preloaded as well with a few basic versatile rhythms to suit a few songs that may need it.

    I don't mind learning it in principle on a VST but I couldn't use that on stage due to the lack of a laptop that would keep up reliably. But my keyboard thing can store and play midi files which may be a good way to go. In fact I found out this weekend it can even play audio files as a backing track as well. I just need to check how to play over the top of the midi files but that is what it's meant for I think.  I really should set the time aside to work out that keyboard as it seems to have a lot of Cubase interaction that worked rather well when I was doing my recording recently.

    Not sure the e-drums on it are up to much but will have a look just in case.

    Maybe a cheap ipad may be a decent shout!
    Please note my communication is not very good, so please be patient with me
    soundcloud.com/thecolourbox-1
    youtube.com/@TheColourboxMusic
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • SporkySporky Frets: 27581
    I know it's old fashioned (I think I got my first about 25 years ago) but the Alesis SR16 sprang straight to mind. 
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • meltedbuzzboxmeltedbuzzbox Frets: 10337
    I'd personally go with a laptop and EZ drummer. 


    The Bigsby was the first successful design of what is now called a whammy bar or tremolo arm, although vibrato is the technically correct term for the musical effect it produces. In standard usage, tremolo is a rapid fluctuation of the volume of a note, while vibrato is a fluctuation in pitch. The origin of this nonstandard usage of the term by electric guitarists is attributed to Leo Fender, who also used the term “vibrato” to refer to what is really a tremolo effect.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 9654
    Sporky said:
    I know it's old fashioned (I think I got my first about 25 years ago) but the Alesis SR16 sprang straight to mind. 
    Thanks Sporky I'll have a look at that, though the very quick YouTube demo I half listened to on the train had only  sounds that sounded like it was trying to sound realistic as opposed to electro, does it have different kits to do that sound? Or load your own?

    I'd personally go with a laptop and EZ drummer. 


    That would be over budget unfortunately as I'd have to buy both, also when I used it before I don't remember there being electro type sounds or is that an expansion you can get?

    Thanks all
    Please note my communication is not very good, so please be patient with me
    soundcloud.com/thecolourbox-1
    youtube.com/@TheColourboxMusic
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • SporkySporky Frets: 27581
    No load-your own, but I thought it had electro too.

    There's the SR18 now - never used one but it looks like a useful update. 
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • UnclePsychosisUnclePsychosis Frets: 12880
    For messing about and creating simple beats on the fly you may want to check out the Volca Beats and the Volca Sample.

    They're not fully featured by any means but they're a lot of fun.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • horsehorse Frets: 1563
    Old boss dr660 maybe? I seem to remember how you programmed rhythms by overdubbing over a loop building up might match part of your requirements. You can also store 'songs' made up of sequences of rhythm patterns you have programmed.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • steamabacussteamabacus Frets: 1258
    It sounds to me like you're after a classic Roland TR-606. 


    Originals might be expensive but there are any number of modern clones/software re-creations out there (it's not really my area of expertise, just what I've gleaned from my techno mates)
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    I have a 606 and various other cheaper Rolands.
    They are ok and great for circuit bending but operationally they can be a bit limiting compared to a modern sequencer.

    I'd probably suggest either getting a decent drum machine with a modern spec (Elektron, Tempest, MPC) but still use a sequencer on a laptop to control it.

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • goldtopgoldtop Frets: 6101
    OP, do explore the MX49's voice list - it's a Motif Lite in a tiny box, but includes all of the kits, including drum-machine/retro/electro types.


    There might even be suitable arps for playing?

    Not as much fun as finger drumming your own stuff, of course.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 9654

    Thanks Sporky I'll dig out some manuals and hopefully youtube demos which should help.

    Mr UnclePsychosis, I did have a Volca Beats before but couldn't quite get to grips with it (donated it to the tFB raffle in fact), but I also didn't have a useful midi playing keyboard then so didn't use the midi input which would be useful. Not looked at the sample one yet but imagine that could also work using the actual drum sounds from my recordings as samples for each part.

    Mr horse thanks I'll add the Boss to the research list.

    Mr Octatonic I don't mind limited as my intelligence is similarly limited, so will look at these and maybe the recent Roland mini reissue things. I think there's a Behringer clone of one of the Roland drum machines on the way too but suspect that'll be out of the price range.

    Annnd Mr Goldtop, hmm that is quite a long list of sounds isn't it, I've only really used the Wurlitzer/Rhodes, 1967 organ and one of the acoustic pianos as have not had time to get to grips with all the other stuff it does. I did use it for recording bass parts and e-piano on some recording I did recently but feel like I've hardly scratched the surface. I've no idea what the Motif is but to be fair the piano sounds are good so will try out the drums as well as that would work perfectly I reckon. Host midi files with other instruments in too (organs & bass mainly) but also the ability to "play" the drums and loop them a bit could also work. Hmmm...

    Please note my communication is not very good, so please be patient with me
    soundcloud.com/thecolourbox-1
    youtube.com/@TheColourboxMusic
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • BranshenBranshen Frets: 1222
    edited July 2018
    I'm relatively new to this area as well but as I understand it, the Acetone you are referring to is a drum machine, like the volca beats or the Roland TR-8, which is a modern version of the famous Roland TR-808. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this allows you to program rhythms but doesn't allow you to punch in rhythms physically.

    Being able to punch a rhythm into a machine requires an Akai MPC type machine. Unfortunately, MPCs don't allow you to loop the punched-in rhythms, so you'll need to incorporate some sort of looper. If you want multiple drum rhythms for chorus and verse, you'll need a multitrack looper.

    Laptops are great for this because you could easily punch in rhythms and get it to loop in Ableton. You can use the clip launcher to launch the different drum parts that you enter. Check out this video below at 0:38.


    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • goldtopgoldtop Frets: 6101
    Branshen said:
    Being able to punch a rhythm into a machine requires an Akai MPC type machine. Unfortunately, MPCs don't allow you to loop the punched-in rhythms,
    Unless I've misunderstood your point, MPCs do.

    I've got an MPC Live and it's easy. Choose a drum kit, set # of bars, press Record, tap in whatever (say) kick+snare pattern you want, when it gets to the end of the last bar, it switches to overdub mode, plays the beats you've made and waits for you to add your hihats/cymbals, etc. Press Overdub to switch it off and the MPC keeps looping and you can play along with pads, switch to another program (piano/vocal samples, etc) and keep going. It's looping with MIDI data. (My Roland MV-8800 was the same.)

    I didn't mention the MPCs as the OP seems to be on a budget, but the MPC500 is a cheap used buy these days and you can download about any drumkit in MPC format nowadays.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14323
    goldtop said:
    Branshen said:
    Being able to punch a rhythm into a machine requires an Akai MPC type machine. Unfortunately, MPCs don't allow you to loop the punched-in rhythms,
    Unless I've misunderstood your point, MPCs do.

    I've got an MPC Live and it's easy. Choose a drum kit, set # of bars, press Record, tap in whatever (say) kick+snare pattern you want, when it gets to the end of the last bar, it switches to overdub mode
    Strewth. Even the venerable Roland MC-50 can do that.

    being able to tap in a rhythm live to loop it over and over until stopped would also be a good feature.
    Feature is the operative word. You may actually need to make the business of creating the loop a theatrical "event" in its own right.

    Adrian Belew's live solo spot would involve talking to the audience whilst he created a sound on sound loop over which to improvise. (KT Tunstall does something similar.) The problem is that you need to get your spontaneous loop together pretty swiftly. Otherwise, your audience will drift away. Some will not return. Their abiding memory of your live appearance will be the bit when you started fannying about with the drum machine.

    Be seeing you.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • SporkySporky Frets: 27581
    Funkfingers said:

    You may actually need to make the business of creating the loop a theatrical "event" in its own right.


    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
    0reaction image LOL 1reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 9654
    Ah yes I know what you mean good Sir. Any time spent doing that type of thing would be minimal ideally - I essentially would only be going something to keep the beat, which I'd imagine would only need maybe a bar one or two times through to get it working. 

    Remember I'm a white stripes fan so drumming to me is best when minimal...
    Please note my communication is not very good, so please be patient with me
    soundcloud.com/thecolourbox-1
    youtube.com/@TheColourboxMusic
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • BranshenBranshen Frets: 1222
    goldtop said:
    Branshen said:
    Being able to punch a rhythm into a machine requires an Akai MPC type machine. Unfortunately, MPCs don't allow you to loop the punched-in rhythms,
    Unless I've misunderstood your point, MPCs do.

    I've got an MPC Live and it's easy. Choose a drum kit, set # of bars, press Record, tap in whatever (say) kick+snare pattern you want, when it gets to the end of the last bar, it switches to overdub mode, plays the beats you've made and waits for you to add your hihats/cymbals, etc. Press Overdub to switch it off and the MPC keeps looping and you can play along with pads, switch to another program (piano/vocal samples, etc) and keep going. It's looping with MIDI data. (My Roland MV-8800 was the same.)

    I didn't mention the MPCs as the OP seems to be on a budget, but the MPC500 is a cheap used buy these days and you can download about any drumkit in MPC format nowadays.
    Thanks for the correction. I wasn't aware of that feature. That does sound like it'll work nicely for what the OP wants then.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14323
    @Sporky I want to award your post a LOLwiz. 

    I love the contrast between the "rock 'n' roll is very simple" comment and the fact that one of the videos cued up by YouTube to play next was Gavin Harrison (Porcupine Tree, King Crimson), explaining his 2018 tour drum kit. How simple is that music? :)

    Be seeing you.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 9654
    @goldtop I tried the mx49 this evening... And I think we have a winner there, Hiphop1 and R&B2 are exactly what I need, and the jazz kit seemed ideal for some White Stripes playalong as well. Thanks for encouraging me to try it out, the keyboard seems quite good which is a surprise.

    I shall look at the other suggestions here for future use but I think the mx49 will do me
    Please note my communication is not very good, so please be patient with me
    soundcloud.com/thecolourbox-1
    youtube.com/@TheColourboxMusic
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
Sign In or Register to comment.