Average Speed Cameras?

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How do these work? Reason I ask is because whenever I drive through an area with these cameras in operation there's always drivers that either speed passed me or are constantly driving 10+ mph over the top speed "allowed"... hmm
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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 26753
    Most speedometers over-read by a small amount (up to 5%-ish), so that could be part of it.  Some people are also happy to assume that any camera is actually set to a little above to ensure no false-positives. And some people are just happy to risk getting tickets.
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  • lovestrat74lovestrat74 Frets: 2489
    I believe the old school speed cameras had a tolerance of 10% + 1 mph, but I have read stuff about these new smart motorways starting to fine for going over the limit on display.. 
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  • boogiemanboogieman Frets: 12314
     I see a lot of drivers slow down for the AS cameras,  race onto the next one, then slow down again. Errr it’s “average speed”, you doughnut. I don’t think crawling past the camera for 20 yards at 40 is going to work if you’re doing 60 inbetween. 
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  • SimonCSimonC Frets: 1391
    They also make it plainly obvious that a lot of drivers have absolutely no idea what the speed limit is.
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  • Bygone_TonesBygone_Tones Frets: 1528
    edited July 2018
    How do you know they didn't get a police notification in the mail? not worth the risk.

    I have over taken people in those areas, but usually when I've been stuck behind a tractor or something and been below the speed limit for a good distance.

    People tend to go slightly faster because the speedo in your car is not accurate (shows slightly faster than you are really doing), and police have a certain threshold they will allow people to go over before they prosecute - say 35mph in a 30mph zone. But every area is different, some councils have a very strict threshold say 31mph in a 30mph, whilst some have a more lenient threshold - say 36mph in a 30mph.
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  • boogiemanboogieman Frets: 12314
    SimonC said:
    They also make it plainly obvious that a lot of drivers have absolutely no idea what the speed limit is.
    Or what average actually means. 
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  • munckeemunckee Frets: 12255
    Its also true that loads of them just aren't turned on.  I went on a driver awareness course recently and half the room were from one road construction firm, they had been doing roadworks for months and not getting tickets and the local authority turned the system on in the last week only and loads of them got done.
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 9794
    If you drive at the same indicated speed as the "average speed limit" and never exceed it you are probably doing less than the "average speed limit" and you should be safe. Anyone overtaking you does so at the risk of their own licence.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
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  • lovestrat74lovestrat74 Frets: 2489
    How do you know they didn't get a police notification in the mail? not worth the risk.

    I have over taken people in those areas, but usually when I've been stuck behind a tractor or something and been below the speed limit for a good distance.

    People tend to go slightly faster because the speedo in your car is not accurate (shows slightly faster than you are really doing), and police have a certain threshold they will allow people to go over before they prosecute - say 35mph in a 30mph zone. But every areas is different, some councils enforce their speed limits very strictly, and some do not.
    This makes sense because the Waze app always shows my speed as less than my speedo
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14323
    There is a permanent ASC section on the M4 through Port Talbot in South Wales. (It is supposed to reduce exhaust emissions in a residential area.) Invariably, any driver exceeding the speed limit takes one of the motorway exits within the zone. Since they do not complete the entire distance, the robot has insufficient data from which to calculate an average speed.
    Be seeing you.
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  • underdogunderdog Frets: 8334
    There is a permanent ASC section on the M4 through Port Talbot in South Wales. (It is supposed to reduce exhaust emissions in a residential area.) Invariably, any driver exceeding the speed limit takes one of the motorway exits within the zone. Since they do not complete the entire distance, the robot has insufficient data from which to calculate an average speed.

    That section is right behind my house, you're generally very lucky if you can go 50mph there anyway these days. It's easily the worst slip road on to a motorway I've seen so far.
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  • randellarandella Frets: 4088
    underdog said:
    There is a permanent ASC section on the M4 through Port Talbot in South Wales. (It is supposed to reduce exhaust emissions in a residential area.) Invariably, any driver exceeding the speed limit takes one of the motorway exits within the zone. Since they do not complete the entire distance, the robot has insufficient data from which to calculate an average speed.

    That section is right behind my house, you're generally very lucky if you can go 50mph there anyway these days. It's easily the worst slip road on to a motorway I've seen so far.
    I came through on Sunday at about 7mph.  The road was bonkers busy.  Where were you all going?  :)

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  • underdogunderdog Frets: 8334
    randella said:
    underdog said:
    There is a permanent ASC section on the M4 through Port Talbot in South Wales. (It is supposed to reduce exhaust emissions in a residential area.) Invariably, any driver exceeding the speed limit takes one of the motorway exits within the zone. Since they do not complete the entire distance, the robot has insufficient data from which to calculate an average speed.

    That section is right behind my house, you're generally very lucky if you can go 50mph there anyway these days. It's easily the worst slip road on to a motorway I've seen so far.
    I came through on Sunday at about 7mph.  The road was bonkers busy.  Where were you all going?  :)

    I think it's a combination of the world's worst on ramp on one side with the world's worst off ramp on the other added to the 50mph speed limit.

    It's a dumb place for the M4 to run, built in the 70s with whole streets knocked down to build it, not sure why they didn't run along the massive industrial zone Instead which would have allowed for 3 lanes.

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  • randellarandella Frets: 4088
    underdog said:
    randella said:
    underdog said:
    There is a permanent ASC section on the M4 through Port Talbot in South Wales. (It is supposed to reduce exhaust emissions in a residential area.) Invariably, any driver exceeding the speed limit takes one of the motorway exits within the zone. Since they do not complete the entire distance, the robot has insufficient data from which to calculate an average speed.

    That section is right behind my house, you're generally very lucky if you can go 50mph there anyway these days. It's easily the worst slip road on to a motorway I've seen so far.
    I came through on Sunday at about 7mph.  The road was bonkers busy.  Where were you all going?  :)

    I think it's a combination of the world's worst on ramp on one side with the world's worst off ramp on the other added to the 50mph speed limit.

    It's a dumb place for the M4 to run, built in the 70s with whole streets knocked down to build it, not sure why they didn't run along the massive industrial zone Instead which would have allowed for 3 lanes.

    Righto - got you.  Manchester's orbital (the M60) suffers similar where they try in vain to increase its capacity.

    It seems a shame that the M4 runs through Port Talbot and Swansea, right between the sea and some lovely old terraces of villas a lot of which seem to be the old seaview hotels.  I'll bet they were pissed off when that great slab of tarmac got plonked down where it did.
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  • WolfetoneWolfetone Frets: 1479
    underdog said:
    randella said:
    underdog said:
    There is a permanent ASC section on the M4 through Port Talbot in South Wales. (It is supposed to reduce exhaust emissions in a residential area.) Invariably, any driver exceeding the speed limit takes one of the motorway exits within the zone. Since they do not complete the entire distance, the robot has insufficient data from which to calculate an average speed.

    That section is right behind my house, you're generally very lucky if you can go 50mph there anyway these days. It's easily the worst slip road on to a motorway I've seen so far.
    I came through on Sunday at about 7mph.  The road was bonkers busy.  Where were you all going?  :)

    I think it's a combination of the world's worst on ramp on one side with the world's worst off ramp on the other added to the 50mph speed limit.

    It's a dumb place for the M4 to run, built in the 70s with whole streets knocked down to build it, not sure why they didn't run along the massive industrial zone Instead which would have allowed for 3 lanes.

    Can you remember when the Britton Ferry bridge didn't exist??
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  • underdogunderdog Frets: 8334
    Wolfetone said:
    underdog said:
    randella said:
    underdog said:
    There is a permanent ASC section on the M4 through Port Talbot in South Wales. (It is supposed to reduce exhaust emissions in a residential area.) Invariably, any driver exceeding the speed limit takes one of the motorway exits within the zone. Since they do not complete the entire distance, the robot has insufficient data from which to calculate an average speed.

    That section is right behind my house, you're generally very lucky if you can go 50mph there anyway these days. It's easily the worst slip road on to a motorway I've seen so far.
    I came through on Sunday at about 7mph.  The road was bonkers busy.  Where were you all going?  :)

    I think it's a combination of the world's worst on ramp on one side with the world's worst off ramp on the other added to the 50mph speed limit.

    It's a dumb place for the M4 to run, built in the 70s with whole streets knocked down to build it, not sure why they didn't run along the massive industrial zone Instead which would have allowed for 3 lanes.

    Can you remember when the Britton Ferry bridge didn't exist??

    I can't remember that no, when was that around? I vaguely remember the fair ground on the beach front, and all the shops, the hotel that mysteriously burned down just weeks after planning for knocking it down and building houses was refused, and the sports centre that got burned down after having application to build houses on it got refused.

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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    I have to admit, on motorways with stretches of 50mph average, I usually go through them at about 55 by my speedo. Not really because I think the extra few MPH will make or break my day, but just because it always feels a bit safer to be going *slightly* faster than the bulk of traffic. It drives me mad when I'm in a scrum of cars and lorries all going at the same speed, with half the drivers subtly weaving from side to side in the uncomfortably narrow lanes. And you end up just sliding back and forth alongside the same cars that can't really maintain a constant speed.

    Going a tiny bit faster through those sections means you can usually legitimately be in the outside lane, and chose your moment for passing the lorry that's right on the lane markings etc.
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  • darthed1981darthed1981 Frets: 11673
    How do these work? Reason I ask is because whenever I drive through an area with these cameras in operation there's always drivers that either speed passed me or are constantly driving 10+ mph over the top speed "allowed"... hmm
    Two mitigating factors: -

    1.  Speedos typically over-read, not as much as people think, but a modern electronic speedo will always over-read by a couple of mph to ensure if it goes out of calibration or you change the wheels etc. it can't break the law by saying you are going slower than you actually are.

    2. Tolerance.  On no road in the UK is speed enforced without tolerance, though speeding is an absolute offense, so an individual officer can do you for 31mph past a school in a 30mph limit if they see fit.

    Typically, the tolerances set in the ACPO guidelines are still observed, so 10% + 2mph.  This is so enforcement is proportional and fair, and also you have clearly committed an offense beyond reasonable doubt when caught, when taking into account calibration of the equipment.

    So, you could potentially just about get away with an indicated 60mph in an 50mph average speed zone, but I'd consider that very iffy and liable to end up with a ticket.

    Safest thing to do if you don't want a ticket is don't speed.
    We have to be so very careful, what we believe in...
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8590
    How do these work? 
    They use (NPR) number plate recognition, and time your vehicle over measured distances. Accuracy depends on distance travelled, but typically they are accurate to less than 1 mph. As  @darthed1981 ;said, prosecution depends on whatever threshold the relevant police organisation wants to use.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • skunkwerxskunkwerx Frets: 6838
    They do get tickets. 

    Its why they put them there. They make millions. 

    People are also just plain stupid. 

    I see it everyday on the A13. 
    Theres a 50 stretch and I would say 25% of cars are speeding either overtaking me, or when I’m staying in the middle to continue on the A13, They’ll speed by my inside which is a lane that goes off down the sliproad to join the m25, where theres another anpr camera right before the roundabout. Idiots. 

    Theres also a small percentage, especially around here that are clearly not legal anyway, or have unintelligable or stolen plates. 

    The only easy day, was yesterday...
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