Vietnam Conflict.

Fretwired

munckee said:

Bizarrely my dad was in the services at the time and he and his chums were disappointed not to get involved with Korea and Vietnam.  The Americans and Australians were very bitter that we didn't follow them in after they felt they had sent their young to die in Europe during WW2.

Of course 20 minutes in the jungle might have changed their view!

My wife had relatives who fought in Burma during WW2 - not nice. We had first hand experience of fighting in thick jungle conditions where you were as likely to die from some creepy crawlies bite as a bullet and where a dozen well armed men could hold up an army for days. The Vietcong were being supplied by the Chinese and Russians so it was never going to be a war that would be over in 5 minutes. Sound move not to join the Yanks.

ThorpyFX

the Ken burns series is bloody excellent, really thorough and unbiased. I'm enjoying it immensely. 

CHRISB50

There is a book called The Cage by a guy called Tom Abraham. He was British kid whose parents moved to the US and he decided to join up. I've read it more than once. It's a very good book.

The Ken Burns documentary series was also fantastic.

Music wise I always associate Paint It Black by the Stones as it was the closing music to Tour of Duty, that I used to watch when I was a kid.

Fortunate Son was the main theme to Battlefield 2 Vietnam Expansion pack, also a great tune.

Tracks of My Tears by Smoky Robinson I associate with Platoon I guess.

CHRISB50

^^Fortunate Son is by Creedance Clearwater Revival. I won't edit the post as then I have to relink all the videos.

munckee

Tour of duty what a great series, at least I remember it being great, never see it on tv now though.

ESBlonde

A terrible conflict fought for the wrong reasons by brave young men restrained from doing what they could have done. You can't fight a gorrila jungle war like an open battlefield, and certainly not with gentlemanly rules. The US air power were only allowed to bomb NV about one day in 20, all the time the NVA were 'at talks' in Paris the US restrained it's forces while the NVA surged down the Ho Chi min trail in a neutral country. The massive hardware superiority is useless if you decide not to use it to liik like civilised people. Add to that many people who they were fighting to protect actually wanted the US out and the Communists in!

Anyone that wants a small snapshot of the situation could read:

One Day in a long war - 10th May 1972

by Jeffrey Ethell and Dr. Alfred Price

CHRISB50

munckee said:

Tour of duty what a great series, at least I remember it being great, never see it on tv now though.

Yep, I loved it too. It was still shown a little while back but I don't think it is anymore.

Amazon do a DVD box set for under 40 quid. 58 episodes apparently, and I don't remember a stinker.

Dominic

Funny how we have a perception of the Vietnam War honed by Hollywood and US propaganda and an inherent anti -communist bias.We only ever know what we are told or led to believe.
There is another perspective..........a visit to The Museum of Historical Truths just outside Ho Chi Min City makes you realise what grotesque things the Americans did and the Legacy of their experimental germ, neurological and chemical arsenal .
Many of these things were being field trialed as they were invented and to some extent the War was used as a theatre to exhibit to Russia the might of American non-nuclear weaponry.Much of it makes Syria look like a gentlemanly game of cricket.
It certainly makes for quite thought provoking stuff........although conversely the name of the museum alone is propagandist in the extreme.

VimFuego

Dominic said:

Funny how we have a perception of the Vietnam War honed by Hollywood and US propaganda and an inherent anti -communist bias.We only ever know what we are told or led to believe.
There is another perspective..........a visit to The Museum of Historical Truths just outside Ho Chi Min City makes you realise what grotesque things the Americans did and the Legacy of their experimental germ, neurological and chemical arsenal .
Many of these things were being field trialed as they were invented and to some extent the War was used as a theatre to exhibit to Russia the might of American non-nuclear weaponry.Much of it makes Syria look like a gentlemanly game of cricket.
It certainly makes for quite thought provoking stuff........although conversely the name of the museum alone is propagandist in the extreme.

erm, do "we"? I certainly don't. Reading this thread, quite a few "we" here also don't. 

ICBM

VimFuego said:

erm, do "we"? I certainly don't. Reading this thread, quite a few "we" here also don't. 

Indeed. And going back to an earlier point, Harold Wilson keeping us out of it was one of the greatest things a British PM has ever done, and it was in the face of immense pressure from the US.

Sadly Blair was not fit to stand in Wilson's place when it was his turn.

LuttiS

VimFuego said:
erm, do "we"? I certainly don't. Reading this thread, quite a few "we" here also don't. 

Possibly not anymore.. but before i started properly looking into the majority of my knowledge would have come from films. I was always aware that it was a films and probably very biased and not hugely accurate.. but none the less.. that's where my knowledge came from. I'd be inclined to agree with @Dominic.

 The US properganda machine, that the UK for the most part subscribes to.. US are always portrayed as "the goodies" and the red tide are always the bad guys.. 

Didn't Rambo 3 get banned in America because in it he helped the Afgans and said they were great people. They we invaded the fuck out of Afganistan and suddenly Rambo 3 is on the no watch list... 

VimFuego

just trying to think of which vietnam war films from the US that paint the war/the US in a good light, on Green Berets comes to mind.

LuttiS

VimFuego said:

just trying to think of which vietnam war films from the US that paint the war/the US in a good light, on Green Berets comes to mind.

I haven't seen loads.. but it's not necessarily that US is put in a good light. .but it is always "commies" that are put in a bad light. 

Dominic

by "we" I am referring to the general consensus of western perception not a collective description of the commentators here
Make no mistake the Viet Cong were pretty evil but the Americans were no White Knights in shining Armour.
What was amazing was the naivety of the US Tacticians .......they thought that by cutting a country in half they would stop the Southern spread of Viet Cong who simply side stepped the American blockade and circumvented by following old jungle trade paths to the South through Laos that became known as the Ho Chi Minh trail ........it simply didn't occur to the USA that they would cross a pretty undefined border into another neighbouring country.
The original landings at Dien Bien Phu were pure tactical incompetence .

Fretwired

To me Vietnam played out on the BBC News and ITV's News at Ten .. it was the first war I'd seen on TV and it was brutal. There were plenty of documentaries at the time plus the graphic pictures in the newspapers.

The picture of Phan Thị Kim Phúc OOnt aka napalm girl was haunting and drove people in the west to act ..

Wazmeister

I echo earlier sentiments; watch the Ken Burns documentary for the full, mind blowing horror of it all...

Cirrus

Max Hastings has a book on Vietnam coming out in September, it's on my Amazon wishlist and I'm looking forward to reading it.

lasermonkey

not_the_dj said:

lasermonkey said:

as the BBC showed heavily edited (down to 1 hour per episode, IIRC) episodes.

Bastards! I didn't know that....I might get the DVD set.

I believe it's on Netflix now, though I couldn't tell you if it's the full version. The PBS uncut episodes range from eighty-odd minutes to almost two hours per episode.
I very much doubt that I'll ever remove the documentary from the HD recorder, as I can see myself going back to it.

LuttiS

lasermonkey said:

not_the_dj said:

lasermonkey said:

as the BBC showed heavily edited (down to 1 hour per episode, IIRC) episodes.

Bastards! I didn't know that....I might get the DVD set.

I believe it's on Netflix now, though I couldn't tell you if it's the full version. The PBS uncut episodes range from eighty-odd minutes to almost two hours per episode.
I very much doubt that I'll ever remove the documentary from the HD recorder, as I can see myself going back to it.

 Netflix one is the one I'm watching currently. Episodes are very long. 

darthed1981

Also relevant to TFB jams as well as Vietnam...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMoymmMHdG8