The dark mystery of the nut

axisus

I've made three guitars so far, and I'm very pleased with all of them, however, I think that I have been riding my luck with the nut. I don't really have a clue about them, I just buy a pre-cut one and slap it on at what I think will be the right height. All have worked fine so far.

Do you 'intelligent' builders (eg not like me), do anything to a pre-cut nut, or just use it as is? 

Anyone got any good advice as to a better approach for me to use with the current guitar I am building? I'd like to improve my chances of getting things right.

ICBM

If you're using a pre-cut nut then your nut is not cut properly. No pre-cut nut is ever exactly right for the guitar, no matter how well you fit it - the tolerance on the grooves between too high and just right is finer than can be achieved by any other process than cutting the grooves to the right depth with the strings on. (You can of course do the bulk of the work first.)

All you need to do to get the depth right is to fret each string at the third fret and look at the gap between the string and the first fret. It should be between 1/4 and 1/10 of the string diameter, ie about .001" - .003" on the top E and .005" - .015" on the bottom E, depending on string gauge. (And similarly for basses, relative to their larger string diameter.) You can check it with feeler gauges if you like, but usually by eye is close enough.

You will either need a proper set of nut files (expensive, but worth it if you do a lot of setup work) or to make your own - it's possible to achieve good results with hammered-down, rounded-off junior hacksaw blades if you know what you're doing, but they do need a bit more skill to use.

Funkfingers

What he said. 

Some famous brand guitars and basses are sold in an *unfinished* condition. The nut could do with fettling AFTER the neck has acclimatised to local atmospheric conditions.

FelineGuitars

Always need to cut the nut slots to optimal height.

axisus

Thanks for the comments people. It is as I expected, but I cant afford the tools and I wouldn't know what I was doing with them so I think I'll have to muddle on for now. Food for thought though.

WezV

It makes a massive difference to the final result.   Its up there with fret levelling as one of the essential things that needs to be done right on any set-up

It's the one area of guitar building where I have not managed to find a a simple  DIY tool that can do the job as well as a specialist one.   Well worth saving up for a few files.   You don't need all, or exact, string gauges to begin with.  

Not knowing what you are doing is no excuse.   You didn't know how to build a guitar at one time, but still managed to make 3 of them.

A set like this will get you started

https://guitarsandwoods.com/hosco-double-edge-nut-files-for-electric-guitar-set.html

axisus

WezV said:

It makes a massive difference to the final result.   Its up there with fret levelling as one of the essential things that needs to be done right on any set-up

It's the one area of guitar building where I have not managed to find a a simple  DIY tool that can do the job as well as a specialist one.   Well worth saving up for a few files.   You don't need all, or exact, string gauges to begin with.  

Not knowing what you are doing is no excuse.   You didn't know how to build a guitar at one time, but still managed to make 3 of them.

A set like this will get you started

https://guitarsandwoods.com/hosco-double-edge-nut-files-for-electric-guitar-set.html

Phew! serious wonga!

I'll see if I can find decent info on how to do the job and maybe give it some serious thought. I do plan to make a few more guitars over time. 

Corvus

Thats cheap for a good set.. the ones I have are now like £130, though I paid half that at the time.

Lots of info out there but its not a dark art, making from scratch is just a bit tedious (to me). Pre-slotted has most work done anyway, as long as the slots are spaced right its quick to do.

A good nut is so fundamental to playing feel, intonation, tuning stability etc, with all the cost and all the effort in a scratch build skimping out is self-defeating really.

Danielsguitars

I'd recommend the crimson nut files for nylon my hosco ones are useless on that stuff, just in case you fancy trying some, the crimson ones aren't that expensive imo and you can buy individual sizes 

WezV

axisus said:

WezV said:

It makes a massive difference to the final result.   Its up there with fret levelling as one of the essential things that needs to be done right on any set-up

It's the one area of guitar building where I have not managed to find a a simple  DIY tool that can do the job as well as a specialist one.   Well worth saving up for a few files.   You don't need all, or exact, string gauges to begin with.  

Not knowing what you are doing is no excuse.   You didn't know how to build a guitar at one time, but still managed to make 3 of them.

A set like this will get you started

https://guitarsandwoods.com/hosco-double-edge-nut-files-for-electric-guitar-set.html

Phew! serious wonga!

I'll see if I can find decent info on how to do the job and maybe give it some serious thought. I do plan to make a few more guitars over time. 

I think its about the cheapest price I know of for a half decent set, and its really not that much compared to the price of a guitar build.

I started with a similar set stew-mac used to sell, but have since moved onto individual files

BenSirAmos

+1 for hammered flat jnr hacksaw blades. 

Although I've bought a poncy Hosco set now, I always used hacksaw blades and always made an improvement over precut nuts. How much are nut blanks anyway? And how much are junior hacksaw blades? Worth a try, ain't it, even if you screw up on a couple.

FelineGuitars

I sometimes sell off one of our sets cheaper if we replace with a new set . They will be not as sharp as new ones but still very good and fine for personal use 

Del_Preston

FelineGuitars said:

I sometimes sell off one of our sets cheaper if we replace with a new set . They will be not as sharp as new ones but still very good and fine for personal use 

Is there a particular brand / set you use Jonathan?