Music education: online degree vs tutor

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JetfireJetfire Frets: 1687
So heres a thing for people to ponder...

Mrs Jetfire is a lucky thing and lots of development opp's have landed in her lap recently in terms of her main career/job so her career is going really well with lots of training etc etc. As I get older (40 next year!), I wish more and more that Id done something different with my life and not studied what I was good at (i.e Business Studies in school). I half joked with her that I would just take a bank loan/Credit card out and go and get a music degree. To my surprize, she responded that maybe I should. After reviewing the costs of online Music education (DIME, WaterBear, Berklee etc), it seems to work out at £3.5k to £4.5k per year for a 4 year part time, distance learning, degree course.

My query really is this:

For £5k p/a, would I be better setting that aside, having 1 to 1 lessons with the best tutors in the country on a regular basis or signing up for the degree and doing it that way? Its not the first time Ive wonder this and I think its time to S*** or get off the potty on it.


Anyone had any similar thoughts, helpful advice or suggestions?
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Comments

  • Is there a specific reason that you want a degree qualification in music?

    What is it that you want to get out of music?

    Will the pressure of having to conform in content and timeline to a set curriculum be a help or hinderence to your love of music and music goals?
    Link to my trading feedback: http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/58787/
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    Private lessons all the way.
    It is late here, so I will detail my reasons tomorrow.
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  • JetfireJetfire Frets: 1687
    I wondered about a music degree as it would be a structured method of learning with a qualification at the end of it. However, I'm not overly fussed by a qualification, I just want to get better. Like, alot better. 

    Part of me thinks having 1 to 1 lessons regularly with a really good tutor would do what I need. I've tried the Truefire, Jam Track central, guitopia method and lessons via YouTube but I don't feel the value of doing it that way. 
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  • mburekengemburekenge Frets: 1054
    I did a degree with DIME. It was very good. I think it really depends whether you want the qualification or not.
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  • kswilson89kswilson89 Frets: 222
    Jetfire said:
    I wondered about a music degree as it would be a structured method of learning with a qualification at the end of it. However, I'm not overly fussed by a qualification, I just want to get better. Like, alot better. 

    Part of me thinks having 1 to 1 lessons regularly with a really good tutor would do what I need. I've tried the Truefire, Jam Track central, guitopia method and lessons via YouTube but I don't feel the value of doing it that way. 
    If you're aiming to just get better at the guitar then I'd recommend a teacher you can see regularly, but one who really knows what they're talking about. I did my undergraduate degree in 'music, popular music and music technology' and my postgraduate degree in 'the beatles, popular music and society' of all things! I had the best times of my life, so far, at uni and while I found both undergrad and postgrad extremely enjoyable they were very broad-spectrum programmes of study in which you gained a little knowledge here and a little there. All in all I would say that university definitely strengthened my understanding of music theory, which in turn I was able to apply to the guitar... But in all honesty I think you could gain just as much knowledge from a private tutor.
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27569
    Jetfire said:
    However, I'm not overly fussed by a qualification, I just want to get better. Like, alot better. 

    I don't think a music degree is going to help you on the journey to being a better player.

    But lessons from a good tutor most certainly will.

    They are for different things.
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
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  • I finished my degree at ACM in 2011 and although it was some of the best 4 years I spent in my life, I'm now in debt and haven't found a suitable day job (mostly working as a private tutor myself teaching in the evenings).

    I did think about having lessons privately from a good tutor would help develop, though when I was at ACM I was having "lessons" everyday as opposed to once a week. Also I wasn't just learning stuff on guitar but for other instruments too, bass, drums, vocals, keys, arranging etc. So I grew as a musician as opposed to just a guitarist.

    Now I'm teaching a guy who has moved to the UK from abroad who doesn't have ACM's and BIMM's in his country, he wants to become a pro and is doing the RGT grades. He does want to go to an academy or an institute but I said just stick with the lessons, its cheaper and he doesn't have to study music culture and business, 2 units I didn't really need to study much in my time.
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14321
    Sporky said:
    Jetfire said:
    However, I'm not overly fussed by a qualification, I just want to get better. Like, a lot better. 
    I don't think a music degree is going to help you on the journey to being a better player.

    But lessons from a good tutor most certainly will.

    They are for different things.
    Sporky nailed it. Wiz awarded.


    Structured learning under a tutor is the option that should get you playing better. The tutor should be able to detect your technical deficiencies and suggest relevant finger exercises to achieve improvement. The tutor should also push you into doing some things that you might prefer to avoid.

    The tutor I would like to recommend retired a few years ago. It might be worth contacting him anyway to ask whom he would recommend in your area.
    Be seeing you.
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    edited August 2018
    octatonic said:
    Private lessons all the way.
    It is late here, so I will detail my reasons tomorrow.
    OK, here goes.

    Music schools are basically money making machines for the company that sets up the business.
    It is a bit of an open secret that it isn't as good for the student in terms of their learning, because in order for music schools to be accredited they have to take on all sorts of extra stuff in order to look legit- they have to demonstrate a breadth of learning through an established syllabus, rather than giving you what you need on the next step on the path of what is your personal musical journey.

    When I went to music school we had to spend the first year doing musicology, percussion, vocals etc.
    You have similar sorts of things on second year and the third year you are basically on your own to write your dissertation, which is mostly a ball ache with minimal, if any, actual learning that happens.

    That is fine in one sense but really it just pads out the course, provided employment to teachers and costs way more (for the student) to get any sense of value but quite a bit less than is needed to run the music school well.

    None of the learning is targeted- it is a scatter gun approach to what you should know, rather than your specific educational requirements. 

    Private lessons with the right teacher (finding the right teacher is a non-trivial task) is a much better approach provided you do the work.
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  • NikcNikc Frets: 627
    A small story/journey which might help.

    Last year i decided I had spent way too much of my life not doing the things I want. With that in mind I bought a new practice amp and restrung my epi dot studio. A month or so later and a chance encounter and I decided to take lessons and see how things went. My first lesson was great an assessment of what I could and couldn't do and then a bit of a plan.

    So just over a year later I'm regularly playing open mic nights and blues jams and now talking about possible gig opportunities and wether I should focus on solo work or look at a band of some description. 

    My tutor has been brilliant and has pushed me to step out of my comfort zone and really develop as a musician both in my playing and singing. 

    As a conclusion I'd suggest look at your outcome goals is it playing/performance or are you just wanting to study, is it practical or theory driven ? I'm sure that will help your decision as to which way to go. For the record doing a degree would have done nothing for me except add more letters after my name that I don't use - Good Luck :)
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  • meltedbuzzboxmeltedbuzzbox Frets: 10337
    edited August 2018
    If you want to be a better guitar player, lessons and playing with others is the way to go 

    If you want to be a better song writer with a greater understanding of theory and notation definitely go for the Berklee course
    The Bigsby was the first successful design of what is now called a whammy bar or tremolo arm, although vibrato is the technically correct term for the musical effect it produces. In standard usage, tremolo is a rapid fluctuation of the volume of a note, while vibrato is a fluctuation in pitch. The origin of this nonstandard usage of the term by electric guitarists is attributed to Leo Fender, who also used the term “vibrato” to refer to what is really a tremolo effect.
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  • JetfireJetfire Frets: 1687
    Thanks guys, this has been really insightful. Someone has said that finding a tutor is no mean feat so that's my next adventure. I did go to London for lessons with Martin Goulding who is awesome. However, 60 quid on a train up, the tube rail card and then the lesson makes it a looooong expensive day. Skype lessons are possibility but I wasnt keen on them as i prefer face to face. 
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  • I finished my degree at ACM in 2011 and although it was some of the best 4 years I spent in my life, I'm now in debt and haven't found a suitable day job (mostly working as a private tutor myself teaching in the evenings).

    I did think about having lessons privately from a good tutor would help develop, though when I was at ACM I was having "lessons" everyday as opposed to once a week. Also I wasn't just learning stuff on guitar but for other instruments too, bass, drums, vocals, keys, arranging etc. So I grew as a musician as opposed to just a guitarist.

    Now I'm teaching a guy who has moved to the UK from abroad who doesn't have ACM's and BIMM's in his country, he wants to become a pro and is doing the RGT grades. He does want to go to an academy or an institute but I said just stick with the lessons, its cheaper and he doesn't have to study music culture and business, 2 units I didn't really need to study much in my time.
    but don't those degree courses set you up for being a pro, as well as teaching the musical stuff you need? Nothing wrong with learning the musical stuff from you, and I'm sure you could tell him a thing or two about going pro, but by your own admission you're working mostly as a private tutor (nothing wrong with that either) - if your portfolio needs to cover tuition, gigging, sessions, arranging etc then I'd have thought a course that deals with the business angles and gets you into places where you could end up working would be the right thing.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14030
    edited August 2018 tFB Trader
    I'd go private one to one - liaise with the teacher about what you want to learn and the direction required

    a good teacher can also assess where you are at, at this stage and what tweaks are required to how you currently play

    A one to one and the teacher can assess each weeks progress - If you read an on-line lesson, then it can become an interpretation and as such you might be playing it wrong - The teacher will be able to assess and re-direct accordingly + add tips as you go along to further improve - Be it timing, phrasing, pick control + many other facets 

    A lesson each week, or whatever it is, is a commitment  that you will keep - an on-line lesson and you might think I can't be bothered today so I'll do it tomorrow instead

    As pointed out above by others you need to find a teacher you can work with and develop that relationship - ie no use learning shred if playing country etc


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  • sw67sw67 Frets: 228
    I have been playing for 35 years and this year after a hand injury i decided it was time to get lessons and learn how to play properly. Its been a few months of lessons every 2 weeks and its been fantastic. Was playing with my mate last week and when i was playing he said " wow - where did that come from ". I used most of the online websites over the last few years and wasn't making any progress.
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  • EricTheWearyEricTheWeary Frets: 16253
    octatonic said:
    octatonic said:
    Private lessons all the way.
    It is late here, so I will detail my reasons tomorrow.
    OK, here goes.

    Music schools are basically money making machines for the company that sets up the business.
    It is a bit of an open secret that it isn't as good for the student in terms of their learning, because in order for music schools to be accredited they have to take on all sorts of extra stuff in order to look legit- they have to demonstrate a breadth of learning through an established syllabus, rather than giving you what you need on the next step on the path of what is your personal musical journey.

    When I went to music school we had to spend the first year doing musicology, percussion, vocals etc.
    You have similar sorts of things on second year and the third year you are basically on your own to write your dissertation, which is mostly a ball ache with minimal, if any, actual learning that happens.

    That is fine in one sense but really it just pads out the course, provided employment to teachers and costs way more (for the student) to get any sense of value but quite a bit less than is needed to run the music school well.

    None of the learning is targeted- it is a scatter gun approach to what you should know, rather than your specific educational requirements. 

    Private lessons with the right teacher (finding the right teacher is a non-trivial task) is a much better approach provided you do the work.
    Watching that Andertons interview with the Water Bear chap ( Bruce Dickinson, formerly of Little Angels) as I understood it they aim to offer something less general but more wrapped around your particular skill set. So, for example, if you were a great fingerstyle jazz guitarist how to develop that and how to make it into a viable business. Although as they wouldn’t necessarily have top fingerstyle jazz guitarists teaching you’d still have to develop the technical side by yourself and/ or pay for lessons. The advantage is that you aren’t forced into learning semi irrelevant material and you get a degree level qualification that is based on your skill set, the disadvantage is that if you don’t have a clear idea of where you are headed you probably won’t get it from them. 
    If it’s entirely about technical/ musical skill sets then private tuition (as you might still have to do this if paying for a degree anyway)seems the way forward. 


    Tipton is a small fishing village in the borough of Sandwell. 
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  • I'm in the one-on-one camp as well, and while it may sound like a conflict of interest I am a guitar teacher.  I teach one on one at a local music store/school.  The teaching staff includes piano, voice, violin etc along with guitar.  Most of those "other instrument" teachers have some qualification from degree based institutions, but in the guitar section I'm the only one out of 4 that has anything other than experience and reputation.(I have Grade 5 RCM Classical Guitar, not exactly high cred).  I also, along with the other guitar teachers have a past littered with live experience in rock/blues/pop etc and a few of us have some classical and jazz backgrounds.    The non-accredited guitar teachers have as much or more music theory knowledge as I do and all of us are teaching because we have the personality needed for the job.  It's true in most cases that the best players don't make good teachers.  I'm in Canada and have taught at 3 different music schools over the years and found the same applied at all 3.  Check out your local music schools first, it may save you a lot of time and money.

    “Theory is something that is written down after the music has been made so we can explain it to others”– Levi Clay


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  • 57Deluxe57Deluxe Frets: 7329
    just write lots of songs and send them to Publishers - is a chance one will get picked up by a big act...
    <Vintage BOSS Upgrades>
    __________________________________
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14030
    edited August 2018 tFB Trader
      It's true in most cases that the best players don't make good teachers.  .
    true in sport and many others areas of life, be it education, business - the ability to portray what you can do naturally and teach/show it to a 3rd party, is not the same as being able to do it yourself, for yourself

    There is a case that many self taught players and businessmen are 'unknowingly competent' - Nothing wrong with that and better than being 'knowingly incompetent' - But because you are self taught, you often don't know why you do it the right way, or the way that works for you - As such hard to explain/show to others the correct method
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  • allenallen Frets: 699
    I'd like to comment on this thread as an intermediate guitar player and a university lecturer (not in music).

    First off, whoever said above that a degree course is full of fluff is absolutely right in my experience.

    However, a lot of this depends on how you become motivated to do things and apply yourself. I've done a fair amount of listening to youtube gurus over the years and have reflected on my own progress and the number one thing holding me back has been the lack of consistent application/practice. Most students I observe on my courses attempt to do the absolute minimum in order to pass.

    There have been times when I've got the metronome out, planned to learn some skill/song and really nailed it, but those times are few and far between. I genuinely believe that if I could have sustained that approach for the many years that I've been playing I'd be a pretty good player by now (well at least a lot better than I actually am).

    So I think the question you have to ask yourself is how you get motivated about a task. I can imagine being a full time music student surrounded by loads of great musicians to be really inspiring (or terrifying!). For me, working with a one to one tutor would be less inspiring I think. It doesn't really matter what works for me though, but what works for you. One benefit of the university/exam approach is that you have hard deadlines for things so it can be good at focussing your effort, albeit probably not the absolute best way of doing it.

    I would also agree with those people above who have commented on being clear on your goals. I would actually start really drilling into these. It's not good enough to set your goal to be a 'good guitar player' or 'doing 1 gig a week'. I'm a fairly average player and I could probably wangle a gig per week if I tried hard enough.

    What are the things you want to be able to do, to play, the skills and do you have any specific measurable targets?

    Good luck!

    Allen

    PS Have you tried to learn anything recently? I know that sounds odd, but sometimes rather than talking about doing something you can just start. About a year ago I decided to learn all of the notes on the fretboard, it took some work, but it wasn't 'hard' and after a while I actually knew them. Box ticked - and it was a little step on my personal path to improving.

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