Music education: online degree vs tutor

Jetfire

All valid points again.

For background:
I'm in a functions band (read as: covers band) so i gig around 7/8 times a month so plenty of live experience and the like. I've also done an acoustic duo recently so learning new songs is a box I can tick but your point is valid about learning new stuff.
I've got a degree in business studies and I work in a project management enviroment anyway so plenty of business skills there
I achieved grade 6 Practical RGT a while ago so I've done some grades etc.  

Where Id like to be: Essentially, I'm a huge Paul Gilbert fan and love his style along with people like Sam Bell, Guthrie etc. I'd like to get to the point where I felt I was one of the above doing my current band and other opportunities as they arise (depping, other bands, some original material). 

My plan is to go back to my local tutor (who I've used before) for a recover of some basics (scale theory, chords etc) and look at my technique for alt picking, legal, sweeping etc in a few months

Lestratcaster

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Lestratcaster said:

I finished my degree at ACM in 2011 and although it was some of the best 4 years I spent in my life, I'm now in debt and haven't found a suitable day job (mostly working as a private tutor myself teaching in the evenings).

I did think about having lessons privately from a good tutor would help develop, though when I was at ACM I was having "lessons" everyday as opposed to once a week. Also I wasn't just learning stuff on guitar but for other instruments too, bass, drums, vocals, keys, arranging etc. So I grew as a musician as opposed to just a guitarist.

Now I'm teaching a guy who has moved to the UK from abroad who doesn't have ACM's and BIMM's in his country, he wants to become a pro and is doing the RGT grades. He does want to go to an academy or an institute but I said just stick with the lessons, its cheaper and he doesn't have to study music culture and business, 2 units I didn't really need to study much in my time.

but don't those degree courses set you up for being a pro, as well as teaching the musical stuff you need? Nothing wrong with learning the musical stuff from you, and I'm sure you could tell him a thing or two about going pro, but by your own admission you're working mostly as a private tutor (nothing wrong with that either) - if your portfolio needs to cover tuition, gigging, sessions, arranging etc then I'd have thought a course that deals with the business angles and gets you into places where you could end up working would be the right thing.

Yes it does, though he mainly wants to play in a band and session a few times. The course fees are so expensive since I left its probably more sensible for him to stay with me and do the lessons. I do cover arrangment and have a lot of gig experience so that's kinda included for those who want it. Once he gets in a band and get out there gigging then the networking side is important. Playing with other musicians is key to getting better quicker as well.

I took drum lessons a while ago from a private tutor, before I went to ACM. When I told him I was going he said they're very "one-size-fits-all" and recommended finding a good private teacher and brushing up my playing. The main reason why I wanted to go was to meet other musicians and join a band, which I did and am now very experienced. My playing has obviously improved. But the courses were really good back then, I think they've scrapped the Diploma course which is very band orientated and now make you choose from artist development or technical or something like that. From what I hear from people on the course its a right mess and has gone downhill.

Barney

I have been taking once a month lessons on Skype...it's proving to be very good although I should probably do 2 a month but it 60 quid a lesson so one it will be

Lestratcaster

Barney said:

I have been taking once a month lessons on Skype...it's proving to be very good although I should probably do 2 a month but it 60 quid a lesson so one it will be

I never do anything less than 4 lessons per month (1 per week) esp for a total beginner. I don't know what level you're at but I've experienced a lot of people quitting due to the gap being too long between lessons. Now all my learners are monthly blocks of 4 payers and are seeing good progress. Everyone who took fortnightly (and I had one monthly) has quit.

Barney

Lestratcaster said:

Barney said:

I have been taking once a month lessons on Skype...it's proving to be very good although I should probably do 2 a month but it 60 quid a lesson so one it will be

I never do anything less than 4 lessons per month (1 per week) esp for a total beginner. I don't know what level you're at but I've experienced a lot of people quitting due to the gap being too long between lessons. Now all my learners are monthly blocks of 4 payers and are seeing good progress. Everyone who took fortnightly (and I had one monthly) has quit.

The one a month is working ok for me ...it's giving me the direction I need and things to practise I have been playing for a long time ...probs for beginners one a week is best though..

Lestratcaster

Barney said:

Lestratcaster said:

Barney said:

I have been taking once a month lessons on Skype...it's proving to be very good although I should probably do 2 a month but it 60 quid a lesson so one it will be

I never do anything less than 4 lessons per month (1 per week) esp for a total beginner. I don't know what level you're at but I've experienced a lot of people quitting due to the gap being too long between lessons. Now all my learners are monthly blocks of 4 payers and are seeing good progress. Everyone who took fortnightly (and I had one monthly) has quit.

The one a month is working ok for me ...it's giving me the direction I need and things to practise I have been playing for a long time ...probs for beginners one a week is best though..

Its imperative beginners come once a week, even if they think that less regular lessons gives them more time to practice, it actually makes them an excuse to practice less, meaning they fall behind and eventually give up. For some more experienced players sometimes maybe less frequent would be alright but I'd still do it weekly. Think of it as not going to the gym very often and expecting to see results.

Fair enough if its working out ok for yourself though.

Nikc

Yep once a week and have to work hardish. 

Ted

I went on a  short rhythm class at the city lit in London. Whilst it was not specifically guitar focused, it's a vitally important component of any music.

I learnt some important basic principles but the problem with a group class is that it cannot tailor to your individual abilities/needs. You can either get left behind and feel stupid(like me) or  the more advanced people get told stuff they already know or have worked out - and I don't know if there is a happy medium in a class with maybe 12 people.

I could not  imagine having the stamina to attend it either online or in person for the 3 years because ultimately it's about what someone else thinks and they are not really interacting with you personally. Surely you can get all the degree type theory from reading books without having to spend £15k+.

Lestratcaster

Yeah group sessions are bad as everyone might be at the same level. I would only do "groups" if it was 2 people of the same age/ability. Any more than that and as Ted mentioned above someone gets left behind or is miles ahead of the others.

Being a tutor my role is more than just showing people new stuff. Its how to understand and apply it to their own playing and to make sure they're doing it properly. Who else is going to check on them if they've practiced right and applied the knowledge?

Teetonetal

I went to the guitar institute. It transformed my playing, knowledge of theory, reading, performance and all round approach.

Like anything, it only works if you put a shed load of practice in. But how can you not learn from the likes of Dave Kilminster,  Shaun Baxter and Lee Hodgson. Was a fab period of my life.

Blueingreen

octatonic said:

octatonic said:

Private lessons all the way.
It is late here, so I will detail my reasons tomorrow.

OK, here goes.

Music schools are basically money making machines for the company that sets up the business.
It is a bit of an open secret that it isn't as good for the student in terms of their learning, because in order for music schools to be accredited they have to take on all sorts of extra stuff in order to look legit- they have to demonstrate a breadth of learning through an established syllabus, rather than giving you what you need on the next step on the path of what is your personal musical journey.

When I went to music school we had to spend the first year doing musicology, percussion, vocals etc.
You have similar sorts of things on second year and the third year you are basically on your own to write your dissertation, which is mostly a ball ache with minimal, if any, actual learning that happens.

That is fine in one sense but really it just pads out the course, provided employment to teachers and costs way more (for the student) to get any sense of value but quite a bit less than is needed to run the music school well.

None of the learning is targeted- it is a scatter gun approach to what you should know, rather than your specific educational requirements. 

Private lessons with the right teacher (finding the right teacher is a non-trivial task) is a much better approach provided you do the work.

The difficulty of finding the right teacher is what's always prevented me from taking lessons.

I used to really enjoy Jeff Berlin's columns in Bass Player magazine. He was super-opinionated and could be a dick, but he was knowledgeable, sincere and brutally honest even if not always right.

He was evangelical on the subject of a good teacher being the best way to progress as a player.  But his criteria for determining who was a good teacher was really demanding.

He completely sold me on the idea that a good teacher would be the best way to go.  He also convinced me that, particularly in a relatively sparsely populated part of the country, I was most unlikely to find one!

Lestratcaster

Sometimes being a great player won't mean you're a great teacher. If they can get you to unlock your potential and push you to try new things and work hard then you've got a good one regardless of how well they can play (obviously good enough but we're talking man machine level lol)

Anderz

It depends on you and if you really can't use your own ears to tell progress or how to learn something new on a regular basis then the idea of schooling might seem a good idea. Still rock does not need it to much

Jetfire

@Anderz Ive pondered over your comments pretty much all day and if Im honest, Im not sure what you're getting at?

AustrianJohn

EricTheWeary said: Watching that Andertons interview with the Water Bear chap ( Bruce Dickinson, formerly of Little Angels) as I understood it they aim to offer something less general but more wrapped around your particular skill set.

I will be doing an MA (Music Industry Innovation and Enterprise) at WaterBear starting in September 2019. While there is teaching and mentoring around guitar skills (and singing, songwriting, recording etc.) the main focus is on helping a musician to be more successful in the music business. So lots of research to understand how the music industry works, and project related to your life as an artist that help take you to the next level.

Very exciting for me, but very different to having private guitar lessons. Both are valid approaches - depends on your objectives.

Dan_Halen

I've got a BA in music from about 20 years ago. Really enjoyed it but if I could have my time again there's not a chance in hell I'd do it again. Learned a lot about music theory and got my playing up to a high standard but that could have been achieved by having a decent tutor a putting in the practise regardless whilst doing a degree in something useful. From my course I think there are maybe 3 guys who were there at some point in the 3 years I attended who are full time musicians now - a couple of pros and a composer. Another 3 or 4 teach music and the others all went on to work in banks, IT, primary school teaching etc etc.

Most of the pros I do know didn't go to music school - they just practised for hours on end, got their theory in order and went out and gigged with anybody and everybody. If there was a gig/dep slot available they'd take it, regardless of genre, if the drive was a bit far, if the money maybe wasn't enough etc etc. They just got out there, gigged, and made sure they had the set nailed (or nailed enough to convince the casual listener).

You don't need to go to music school to know that serious practise, being versatile and professional and being prepared to start at the bottom are what will get you work.

Although, if you can afford to and really want to then go for it. It'll be great fun.

Greatape

Another vote for one-to-one. With the caveat that I'd look for someone to teach music theory and musicianship rather than just 'guitar', including reading.