2 Les Paul's, strung the same - why is one tighter than the other??

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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24578
    IMHO it’s the use of the word tension that causes the issue.

    Tension is (as has been stated) *only* determined by the mass of the string and the scale length and the desired pitch. 

    The way the string feels when you play it and the fact that some guitars feel different to others with the same strings is, again, nothing to do with tension. It may be more accurate to call it “compliance” or “give”

    Same strings - same type of guitar, and same tension could could have less compliance or give than another for many of the factors stated above - and mostly due to bridge and nut break angle.

    The tension will be the same though or the pitch will have changed.
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  • welshboyowelshboyo Frets: 1808
    impmann said:
    Can I ask what may seem a dumb question?

    Why is this a problem?
    Why is what a problem?
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  • impmannimpmann Frets: 12641
    welshboyo said:
    impmann said:
    Can I ask what may seem a dumb question?

    Why is this a problem?
    Why is what a problem?
    A difference in tension. Different guitars for different sounds/feels/inspiration?
    Never Ever Bloody Anything Ever.

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  • welshboyowelshboyo Frets: 1808
    impmann said:
    welshboyo said:
    impmann said:
    Can I ask what may seem a dumb question?

    Why is this a problem?
    Why is what a problem?
    A difference in tension. Different guitars for different sounds/feels/inspiration?
    2 of the same (bar Standard vs Custom) model though?

    For me its a problem as the Custom stays in its case as I find it hard to play (as it was, not so much now) but the whole why it is so different is eating into me..
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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24578
    impmann said:
    welshboyo said:
    impmann said:
    Can I ask what may seem a dumb question?

    Why is this a problem?
    Why is what a problem?
    A difference in tension. Different guitars for different sounds/feels/inspiration?
    Good question. Clearly people do bother about it though. 

    Funny thing is, I find that changing string gauge or type or material will often have a greater effect as the tension itself actually *does* change then, rather than just the compliance or give... yet people don’t seem so fussed about that...
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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24578
    welshboyo said:
    impmann said:
    welshboyo said:
    impmann said:
    Can I ask what may seem a dumb question?

    Why is this a problem?
    Why is what a problem?
    A difference in tension. Different guitars for different sounds/feels/inspiration?
    2 of the same (bar Standard vs Custom) model though?

    For me its a problem as the Custom stays in its case as I find it hard to play (as it was, not so much now) but the whole why it is so different is eating into me..
    I bet a different string brand/material will make a difference tho 
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  • welshboyowelshboyo Frets: 1808
    welshboyo said:
    impmann said:
    welshboyo said:
    impmann said:
    Can I ask what may seem a dumb question?

    Why is this a problem?
    Why is what a problem?
    A difference in tension. Different guitars for different sounds/feels/inspiration?
    2 of the same (bar Standard vs Custom) model though?

    For me its a problem as the Custom stays in its case as I find it hard to play (as it was, not so much now) but the whole why it is so different is eating into me..
    I bet a different string brand/material will make a difference tho 
    Both running Elixirs, same gauge...

    Its OK now, I have the Standard running 10's and the Custom running 9-46 and it seems to be fairly even
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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24578
    @welshboyo - I bet the actual string tension differences between the two gauges are compensating for the apparent compliance differences brought about by setup/break angles/frets etc..

    Good to hear it’s sorted tho
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  • welshboyowelshboyo Frets: 1808
    @welshboyo - I bet the actual string tension differences between the two gauges are compensating for the apparent compliance differences brought about by setup/break angles/frets etc..

    Good to hear it’s sorted tho
    yeah, just a complete ballache when it comes to re-stringing as I'll have to make a mental note that 1 is 9's and the other is 10's....I'm bound to get it wrong!!
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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24578
    welshboyo said:
    @welshboyo - I bet the actual string tension differences between the two gauges are compensating for the apparent compliance differences brought about by setup/break angles/frets etc..

    Good to hear it’s sorted tho
    yeah, just a complete ballache when it comes to re-stringing as I'll have to make a mental note that 1 is 9's and the other is 10's....I'm bound to get it wrong!!
    It’s why I moved to bass - the silk wraps on the strings give me a colour guide as to what is on each bass :)
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  • ricorico Frets: 1220
    You could try top-wrapping on the LPC - this has a slight but noticeable effect on the feel.
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  • impmannimpmann Frets: 12641
    Have you tried tweaking the truss rod fractionally on the Custom? Could it just be that one has slightly more relief than the other (or one *needs* slightly more relief than the other - I don't subscribe to the concept that one set up fits all)?

    If this is a string bending thing, could it just be that the frets on the custom need re-crowning? This can make a huge difference to the perception of tension.

    I'm glad you've found a work around, though.
    Never Ever Bloody Anything Ever.

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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24578
    impmann said:
    Have you tried tweaking the truss rod fractionally on the Custom? Could it just be that one has slightly more relief than the other (or one *needs* slightly more relief than the other - I don't subscribe to the concept that one set up fits all)?

    If this is a string bending thing, could it just be that the frets on the custom need re-crowning? This can make a huge difference to the perception of tension.

    I'm glad you've found a work around, though.
    Truss rod - yes - I reckon every guitar has a sweet spot for relief - and it does make a big difference!
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14028
    tFB Trader
    impmann said:
    Have you tried tweaking the truss rod fractionally on the Custom? Could it just be that one has slightly more relief than the other (or one *needs* slightly more relief than the other - I don't subscribe to the concept that one set up fits all)?

    If this is a string bending thing, could it just be that the frets on the custom need re-crowning? This can make a huge difference to the perception of tension.

    I'm glad you've found a work around, though.
    re-crowning is a valid comment - Gibson factory spec is more of a flat top - some call it rail track - I hate it - hence my earlier comment that many such guitars feel far better after a new set of 6100/6150 frets or similar - But a correct profiled fret dress can make a difference
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  • welshboyo said:
    Ok..

    88 Standard and a 79 Custom - both have very similar actions, both are strung with 10-46, however the Custom feels a lot tighter than the Standard?

    I have tried raising the tailpiece on the Custom to see if that helped - it did somewhat but the Standard still felt slinkier.

    I have now dropped to 9's on the Custom and it's now almost gone the other way where it's a little too bendy now!!

    So, why do 2 guitars with the same scale length with the same action etc etc feel completely different?
    Have you tried 9.5's on the Custom?

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