Customs: no matter the country ... total ass-hats

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OilCityPickupsOilCityPickups Frets: 9986
in Guitar tFB Trader
When I send gear to non EU countries I have to fill out a 'Commercial Invoice' in quadruplicate, containing the products international tariff code, a description of the product, a statement of what country it was made in, my VAT status, and reason for export. This all has to be put in a plastic envelope and firmly attached to the outside of the parcel. 
All fine ... though somewhat of a 'procedure' as I am starting to export more and more to the US and Japan. 

The issue then is the dozy f--kers in the destination country customs not reading, or just plain ignoring the information provided.
I have lost count of the parcels bounced back from the US for stupid reasons like 'contains batteries' when both the tariff code and product description clearly show that it doesn't! On Saturday I got a parcel 'held' in Japanese customs due to 'insufficient paperwork'
and a need to know VAT Status, country of manufacture and reason for export. Luckily I keep copies of all outgoing commercial invoices ... and lo and behold all the info they wanted was there ... on the paperwork they clearly had! When this sort of thing is a weekly occurrence you start to wonder about the cost in your own time for contributing to the UK's exports! 
And if 'No Deal' happens it will be far, FAR worse!
Professional pickup winder, horse-testpilot and recovering Chocolate Hobnob addict.
Formerly TheGuitarWeasel ... Oil City Pickups  ... Oil City Blog 7 String.org profile and message  

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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14034
    tFB Trader
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  this is what fears me about a no deal Brexit and no customs union - extra paper work and things likely to go wrong - or indeed just pick on for the hell of it
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 28280
    So frustrating! 
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  • OilCityPickupsOilCityPickups Frets: 9986
    tFB Trader
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  this is what fears me about a no deal Brexit and no customs union - extra paper work and things likely to go wrong - or indeed just pick on for the hell of it
    I have been told by someone who is 'in the know' that US customs have a particularly picky, random and vindictive approach to 'foreign' imports. 
    Professional pickup winder, horse-testpilot and recovering Chocolate Hobnob addict.
    Formerly TheGuitarWeasel ... Oil City Pickups  ... Oil City Blog 7 String.org profile and message  

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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14034
    tFB Trader
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  this is what fears me about a no deal Brexit and no customs union - extra paper work and things likely to go wrong - or indeed just pick on for the hell of it
    I have been told by someone who is 'in the know' that US customs have a particularly picky, random and vindictive approach to 'foreign' imports. 
    they have a similar policy at passport control 
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  • OilCityPickupsOilCityPickups Frets: 9986
    tFB Trader
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  this is what fears me about a no deal Brexit and no customs union - extra paper work and things likely to go wrong - or indeed just pick on for the hell of it
    I have been told by someone who is 'in the know' that US customs have a particularly picky, random and vindictive approach to 'foreign' imports. 
    they have a similar policy at passport control 
    My son found that out when he was made to stand for over a half hour 'out of the line' with his fiancée at passport control in the US for slapping his passport down too hard and in a disrespectful manner. Tired and jet lagged from a long haul flight, and trying to make their dream wedding in New York ... they were less than impressed.
    Professional pickup winder, horse-testpilot and recovering Chocolate Hobnob addict.
    Formerly TheGuitarWeasel ... Oil City Pickups  ... Oil City Blog 7 String.org profile and message  

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  • goldtopgoldtop Frets: 6101
    Sometimes, the customs clearing bod (who may be at a courier company, not an official of the destination country) is nowhere near the package. I've had a call from someone asking the same sort of Qs mentioned above, and after a bit of back and forth about it, he admitted he was in an office miles from the package and couldn't refer to the attached paperwork.

    It gets better: I've had the same dept call with the same Qs and, when I remembered that I'd used their own system to create the paperwork, that the paperwork is right there, still on their own system, tell me that he can't use that system. He needs me to download the PDF off his system and email it to him!

    (That said, I've sent literally thousands of packages to non-EU destinations over the last 10 years and had perhaps 10 such issues.)
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  • TTonyTTony Frets: 27345
    I’m guessing that the build-up of hassles on one-off exports/imports is what leads manufacturers to appoint local distributors.  Ship once, through a commercial channel, job done.

    Just costs you 50% of your margin ...
    Having trouble posting images here?  This might help.
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  • StormshadowGuitarsStormshadowGuitars Frets: 1215
    tFB Trader
    Possibly changing the method / company you use to ship items into these countries could save you lots of time and money in the end?
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14034
    tFB Trader
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  this is what fears me about a no deal Brexit and no customs union - extra paper work and things likely to go wrong - or indeed just pick on for the hell of it
    I have been told by someone who is 'in the know' that US customs have a particularly picky, random and vindictive approach to 'foreign' imports. 
    they have a similar policy at passport control 
    My son found that out when he was made to stand for over a half hour 'out of the line' with his fiancée at passport control in the US for slapping his passport down too hard and in a disrespectful manner. Tired and jet lagged from a long haul flight, and trying to make their dream wedding in New York ... they were less than impressed.
    I was flying to New Zealand via LA - daughter wasn't even 2 - we had to get of the plane - then spend 2 hours in 'transit' and then back on the plane to finish the journey - Still have to clear USA Customs despite having to spend 2 hours in a room we can't get out of - Daughter over my shoulder, asleep and her teddy in my hand - I apologies for not having a passport for the teddy - Well if looks could have killed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - No hint of sympathy or fun etc etc etc
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  this is what fears me about a no deal Brexit and no customs union - extra paper work and things likely to go wrong - or indeed just pick on for the hell of it
    I have been told by someone who is 'in the know' that US customs have a particularly picky, random and vindictive approach to 'foreign' imports. 
    they have a similar policy at passport control 
    My son found that out when he was made to stand for over a half hour 'out of the line' with his fiancée at passport control in the US for slapping his passport down too hard and in a disrespectful manner. Tired and jet lagged from a long haul flight, and trying to make their dream wedding in New York ... they were less than impressed.
    I was flying to New Zealand via LA - daughter wasn't even 2 - we had to get of the plane - then spend 2 hours in 'transit' and then back on the plane to finish the journey - Still have to clear USA Customs despite having to spend 2 hours in a room we can't get out of - Daughter over my shoulder, asleep and her teddy in my hand - I apologies for not having a passport for the teddy - Well if looks could have killed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - No hint of sympathy or fun etc etc etc

    The funny thing is, that once you are in the US, most people are really friendly.  There seems to be something about government jobs with guns that attracts all the psychos over there.
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14034
    tFB Trader
    crunchman said:
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  this is what fears me about a no deal Brexit and no customs union - extra paper work and things likely to go wrong - or indeed just pick on for the hell of it
    I have been told by someone who is 'in the know' that US customs have a particularly picky, random and vindictive approach to 'foreign' imports. 
    they have a similar policy at passport control 
    My son found that out when he was made to stand for over a half hour 'out of the line' with his fiancée at passport control in the US for slapping his passport down too hard and in a disrespectful manner. Tired and jet lagged from a long haul flight, and trying to make their dream wedding in New York ... they were less than impressed.
    I was flying to New Zealand via LA - daughter wasn't even 2 - we had to get of the plane - then spend 2 hours in 'transit' and then back on the plane to finish the journey - Still have to clear USA Customs despite having to spend 2 hours in a room we can't get out of - Daughter over my shoulder, asleep and her teddy in my hand - I apologies for not having a passport for the teddy - Well if looks could have killed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - No hint of sympathy or fun etc etc etc

    The funny thing is, that once you are in the US, most people are really friendly.  There seems to be something about government jobs with guns that attracts all the psychos over there.
    totally agree about friendly from others, especially once they hear you speak - it is as though they pick the most awkward bloody minded gits to greet you on arrival and do other similar 'power ego' jobs
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  • OilCityPickupsOilCityPickups Frets: 9986
    tFB Trader
    Possibly changing the method / company you use to ship items into these countries could save you lots of time and money in the end?
    The bottom line is there is only so much the customer is prepared to pay for carriage. I use DPD, and even cut price as they are, it's over £25 to the US. I've tried UPS, and got totally fed up that in spite of having an account I was being charged more than by booking UPS using Transglobal Express as a agent. Madness! They also put their prices up hugely last year and yet the service seemed less reliable. The only couriers I actually trust are FedEx but again the price is more than most customers want to pay.
    goldtop said:
    Sometimes, the customs clearing bod (who may be at a courier company, not an official of the destination country) is nowhere near the package. I've had a call from someone asking the same sort of Qs mentioned above, and after a bit of back and forth about it, he admitted he was in an office miles from the package and couldn't refer to the attached paperwork.

    It gets better: I've had the same dept call with the same Qs and, when I remembered that I'd used their own system to create the paperwork, that the paperwork is right there, still on their own system, tell me that he can't use that system. He needs me to download the PDF off his system and email it to him!

    (That said, I've sent literally thousands of packages to non-EU destinations over the last 10 years and had perhaps 10 such issues.)
    I had that with DPD today ... they had the Commercial Invoice details on their system ... as they issued them to me ... yet the bean brain on their 'live chat' service (they don't have phones apparently) had none of those details available in front of him. DPD weren't even going to call or e mail me that there was an issue ... and if it were not for my sharp eyed customer tracking his parcel and letting me know, it would have been held for the statutory time then bounced back to me ... and I would have been over £30 quid for a Japanese delivery out of pocket. Last time that happened from the US the couriers lost the parcel on the return journey ... and I wound up nearly £200 down the sh-tter.
    Professional pickup winder, horse-testpilot and recovering Chocolate Hobnob addict.
    Formerly TheGuitarWeasel ... Oil City Pickups  ... Oil City Blog 7 String.org profile and message  

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  • Modulus_AmpsModulus_Amps Frets: 2569
    tFB Trader
    goldtop said:

    (That said, I've sent literally thousands of packages to non-EU destinations over the last 10 years and had perhaps 10 such issues.)
    Me too
    The bottom line is there is only so much the customer is prepared to pay for carriage. I use DPD, and even cut price as they are, it's over £25 to the US. I've tried UPS, and got totally fed up that in spite of having an account I was being charged more than by booking UPS using Transglobal Express as a agent. Madness! They also put their prices up hugely last year and yet the service seemed less reliable. The only couriers I actually trust are FedEx but again the price is more than most customers want to pay.

    Are your customers not happy to wait for Royal Mail airmail with tracking? For any pickup set it would be cheaper and likely avoid courier handling fees, sometimes avoids taxes all together.

    On a side note anytime I send wire to the USA it always takes ages to get through customs, I used to send loads of pink wire and it would sit at JFK for 2 weeks before being released.



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  • OilCityPickupsOilCityPickups Frets: 9986
    tFB Trader
    goldtop said:

    (That said, I've sent literally thousands of packages to non-EU destinations over the last 10 years and had perhaps 10 such issues.)
    Me too
    The bottom line is there is only so much the customer is prepared to pay for carriage. I use DPD, and even cut price as they are, it's over £25 to the US. I've tried UPS, and got totally fed up that in spite of having an account I was being charged more than by booking UPS using Transglobal Express as a agent. Madness! They also put their prices up hugely last year and yet the service seemed less reliable. The only couriers I actually trust are FedEx but again the price is more than most customers want to pay.

    Are your customers not happy to wait for Royal Mail airmail with tracking? For any pickup set it would be cheaper and likely avoid courier handling fees, sometimes avoids taxes all together.

    On a side note anytime I send wire to the USA it always takes ages to get through customs, I used to send loads of pink wire and it would sit at JFK for 2 weeks before being released.



    Royal Mail airmail tracked use couriers to deliver in the country of destination ...in Europe they use GFS if I remember correctly or GLS or some such trained chimpanzees ... I had so many simple European deliveries bounced back because they couldn't be bothered to ring a door bell I went over to DPD ... they actually 'try' to deliver. 
    Professional pickup winder, horse-testpilot and recovering Chocolate Hobnob addict.
    Formerly TheGuitarWeasel ... Oil City Pickups  ... Oil City Blog 7 String.org profile and message  

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  • gavin_axecastergavin_axecaster Frets: 526
    edited August 2018 tFB Trader
    Possibly changing the method / company you use to ship items into these countries could save you lots of time and money in the end?
    The bottom line is there is only so much the customer is prepared to pay for carriage. I use DPD, and even cut price as they are, it's over £25 to the US. I've tried UPS, and got totally fed up that in spite of having an account I was being charged more than by booking UPS using Transglobal Express as a agent. Madness! They also put their prices up hugely last year and yet the service seemed less reliable. The only couriers I actually trust are FedEx but again the price is more than most customers want to pay.
    goldtop said:
    Sometimes, the customs clearing bod (who may be at a courier company, not an official of the destination country) is nowhere near the package. I've had a call from someone asking the same sort of Qs mentioned above, and after a bit of back and forth about it, he admitted he was in an office miles from the package and couldn't refer to the attached paperwork.

    It gets better: I've had the same dept call with the same Qs and, when I remembered that I'd used their own system to create the paperwork, that the paperwork is right there, still on their own system, tell me that he can't use that system. He needs me to download the PDF off his system and email it to him!

    (That said, I've sent literally thousands of packages to non-EU destinations over the last 10 years and had perhaps 10 such issues.)
    I had that with DPD today ... they had the Commercial Invoice details on their system ... as they issued them to me ... yet the bean brain on their 'live chat' service (they don't have phones apparently) had none of those details available in front of him. DPD weren't even going to call or e mail me that there was an issue ... and if it were not for my sharp eyed customer tracking his parcel and letting me know, it would have been held for the statutory time then bounced back to me ... and I would have been over £30 quid for a Japanese delivery out of pocket. Last time that happened from the US the couriers lost the parcel on the return journey ... and I wound up nearly £200 down the sh-tter.
    Royal Mail Tracked and Signed seems to be pretty efficient in my experience. I use it for all non-body orders all over the world. Filling in the customs paperwork is easy - I attach an old fashioned CN22 to the envelope and add the commodity code to the online booking which generates a scannable barcode on the label (eve non-tracked Royal Mail now has scannable barcode for customs clearance in non-EU countries).
    I assume the speed will be slower than DPD or UPS but it's also a lot cheaper.

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  • NelsonPNelsonP Frets: 3347
    edited August 2018
    yet the bean brain on their 'live chat' service (they don't have phones apparently) 
    This is getting to be a bigger problem then ever. Seems nearly everyone is trying to avoid any real human contact these days.
    Just in case that leads to a sensible discussion and something getting resolved easily.

    ...although I do appreciate the hypocrisy of making this comment on an online forum!

    And I wholeheartedly agree with your statement about customs folks. You should try shipping something to Africa.
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  • valevale Frets: 1052
    edited August 2018
    When I send gear to non EU countries I have to fill out a 'Commercial Invoice' in quadruplicate, containing the products international tariff code, a description of the product, a statement of what country it was made in, my VAT status, and reason for export. This all has to be put in a plastic envelope and firmly attached to the outside of the parcel. 
    All fine ... though somewhat of a 'procedure' as I am starting to export more and more to the US and Japan. 

    The issue then is the dozy f--kers in the destination country customs not reading, or just plain ignoring the information provided.
    I have lost count of the parcels bounced back from the US for stupid reasons like 'contains batteries' when both the tariff code and product description clearly show that it doesn't! On Saturday I got a parcel 'held' in Japanese customs due to 'insufficient paperwork'
    and a need to know VAT Status, country of manufacture and reason for export. Luckily I keep copies of all outgoing commercial invoices ... and lo and behold all the info they wanted was there ... on the paperwork they clearly had! When this sort of thing is a weekly occurrence you start to wonder about the cost in your own time for contributing to the UK's exports! 
    And if 'No Deal' happens it will be far, FAR worse!
    what about your raw materials? will it be a case that (in the event of no deal) you will be lumbered with the double headache of extra importing and exporting paperwork?

    or maybe that's the tories' dastardly plan to purposefully occupy-distract you while your business lifeblood is grildocked in a kent sliproad for months at a time. grim times.
    hofner hussie & hayman harpie. what she said...
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  • crunchman said:
    The funny thing is, that once you are in the US, most people are really friendly.  There seems to be something about government jobs with guns that attracts all the psychos over there.
    A friendly passport official in any country is a rare thing indeed... that said, when I was younger I had a passport photo so bad that a super-intimidating passport guy in Turkey did a double take between me and the passport, and sniggered as he handed it back to me :D
    Too much gain... is just about enough \m/

    I'm probably the only member of this forum mentioned by name in Whiskey in the Jar ;)

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