Ash v Alder....Strat body choices

markslade07

I’m starting to plan my second build (first was a Tele) and I’m already stuck at the first hurdle....body wood. Ash or Alder seem to be the popular choice, but I’m not sure which to go for. Any thoughts...pro’s/ cons of each? Also 1, 2, or 3 piece body? Choices choices choices!

High level plan is to go for a 60s vibe, LPB over 3TS, relic’d, maple neck with rosewood board. 

I’ve already had early discussions with @lonestar but just trying to flesh out what I want. The guitar needs to be a keeper (for personal reasons).

GoldenEraGuitars

Eeeek, is this a tonewood debate?

My rather naive opinion on this would be...

Ash - primarily sunbursts or trans finishes
Alder - solid colours, metallics, candy etc

More people speak to me about the weight rather than the wood type which is a good angle to approach it from if you’re impartial.

Danielsguitars

Yes i agree about weight too, no one wants a boat anchor

I'd also consider limba as 3 were made in 63 apparently, i love the tone personally, you'd probably want a solid colour though

markslade07

lonestar said:

Eeeek, is this a tonewood debate?

Ha ha....good god no! Or is it.....

octatonic

customkits said:

Yes i agree about weight too, no one wants a boat anchor

I'd also consider limba as 3 were made in 63 apparently, i love the tone personally, you'd probably want a solid colour though

Sea captain, fishermen, pirates?

But yes I’d take a lighter piece of x species over something heavier most of the time.

WezV

lonestar said:

Eeeek, is this a tonewood debate?

My rather naive opinion on this would be...

Ash - primarily sunbursts or trans finishes
Alder - solid colours, metallics, candy etc

More people speak to me about the weight rather than the wood type which is a good angle to approach it from if you’re impartial.

I would also decide based on finish choice and weight.

lets not ignore the “tonewood” debate. Neither are tonewoods, just the stuff Leo could get cheap at the time.  

As much as I think material choice is important to tone,  I always feel body wood makes less difference on a trem equipped guitar anyway.  

markslade07

I hadn’t particularly considered it would be as simple as being weight and finish choice...that makes it easier!

I only really started thinking because I saw the link @lonestar put up on Facebook about Guitarbuild’s body and neck offer and saw the myriad of choices. Just a shame they haven’t quite got a neck I’d want or I may have pulled the trigger and sent it over the water.

GoldenEraGuitars

markslade07 said:

I hadn’t particularly considered it would be as simple as being weight and finish choice...that makes it easier!

I only really started thinking because I saw the link @lonestar put up on Facebook about Guitarbuild’s body and neck offer and saw the myriad of choices. Just a shame they haven’t quite got a neck I’d want or I may have pulled the trigger and sent it over the water.

If you need to chat more shoot me a message 

markslade07

lonestar said:

markslade07 said:

I hadn’t particularly considered it would be as simple as being weight and finish choice...that makes it easier!

I only really started thinking because I saw the link @lonestar put up on Facebook about Guitarbuild’s body and neck offer and saw the myriad of choices. Just a shame they haven’t quite got a neck I’d want or I may have pulled the trigger and sent it over the water.

If you need to chat more shoot me a message 

Yep, definitely will bud....appreciate the advice.

m_c

I'm interested in this as well, as I've got an idea brewing for a new Strat, but I got stuck at the what type of body!
I need to do some research into vintage/modern parts, and 50/60s bodies.

I'm looking at an almost translucent finish, but not sure about type of wood, or how many parts.

WezV

m_c said:

I'm looking at an almost translucent finish,

Ash.


no point going translucent on Alder.  It’s very boring to look at 

Kalimna

Would it be reasonable to suggest that ash is harder to finish than alder, due to the huge pores that need filling on ash?

Alternative suggestions -
Horse chestnut - lightweight, very close pores, works a dream, UK sourced, bit soft
Basswood - no experience
Mahogany - not a usual strat choice, but works nicely and is quite stable, pore filling needed

WezV

That’s the main difference, but it rewards you with prettier grain

you can do lovely thin skin sunken grain stuff on Ash if you dislike porefilling

markslade07

So, if you’re going to heavy relic something, I assume ash may be the preferred choice in most cases as the wear might be down to the wood? Or, if it’s battered anyway, perhaps it doesn’t make a huge difference

fandango

If you are working with wood, you should consider the workability of any given type, along with toxicity. Then there's whether the wood is treated against insect attack.

Note also that there are several different types of Alder and ditto for Ash. And then there's Swamp Ash.

Sorry to give you more factors to consider, but you did ask.

Have a butchers at https://www.wood-database.com/wood-finder/?fwp_name=A&fwp_paged=3

markslade07

fandango said:

If you are working with wood, you should consider the workability of any given type, along with toxicity. Then there's whether the wood is treated against insect attack.

Note also that there are several different types of Alder and ditto for Ash. And then there's Swamp Ash.

Sorry to give you more factors to consider, but you did ask.

Have a butchers at https://www.wood-database.com/wood-finder/?fwp_name=A&fwp_paged=3

No worries at all, happy for any and all advice. Swamp ash was the other main option I’d seen.

I’ll have a read through that link when I get chance....cheers

GSPBASSES

I prefer Alder I think it has a much wider range of sounds. If you want the classic fifties early sixties sounds, then I think it has to be Alder, think Buddy Holly, Hank Marvin and Jimi Hendrix (that's a wide mix of players) all played Stratocaster's made from Alder. 

I always think Swamp Ash (not white ash) has quite a compressed sound, a bit too much mid, particularly the very light weight bodies. But of course you can always EQ this out anyway. I also think the sound difference between Swamp Ash and Alder is quite marginal, by the time the signal has gone through foot pedals overdrive high gain amps I doubt you could tell the difference anyway.

Horse chestnut sounds very similar to Alder. Quite often when you buy basswood in the UK, you will end up with horse chestnut. I believe horse chestnut, sweet chestnut and basswood are 's is all in the same family ( I'm sure if that's incorrect somebody will tell me). English Alder is nothing like American red Alder, tends to be very plain, virtually no grain lines, can be very heavy.

I hope the above doesn't start another tone wood argument, it's based on over 50 years of working with Stratocaster's. 

Also have to say about 90 percent of the Stratocaster's and telecaster's I make from Swamp Ash, whereas I'd say 90 percent of Jazzmaster's and P basses are made from Alder, whereas Jazz basses it's about 50-50.

Slightly off-topic, when pickup manufacturers or guitar makers demonstrate their latest Stratocaster type guitar, claiming it sounds just like a fifties Stratocaster, how will we know, or should I say how would most people know. I think it should be compulsory for anyone claiming their latest creations sound just like a fifties Stratocaster should play some of the opening bars from Buddy Holly's "That'll be the day" or The Shadows "Apache" then play the originals next to their soundtrack.

Kalimna

Off the top of my head, i dont think horse and sweet chestnut are in the same family. The wood, at least, is quite different.
Sweet has a pore structure much closer to oak (and a simillar tannin content and grain pattern, though i dont think it has the same medullary rays as oak). Horse seems to have no pores and a fine grain structure not unlike lime.
As always, i am happy to be corrected.

Some sweet chestnut im making a rocking chair from -

https://i.imgur.com/3NdXqDM.jpg

Some horse chestnut that became the small guitars for my boys last christmas

https://i.imgur.com/1U4ITuU.jpg

Cheers,
Adam

WezV

markslade07 said:

So, if you’re going to heavy relic something, I assume ash may be the preferred choice in most cases as the wear might be down to the wood? Or, if it’s battered anyway, perhaps it doesn’t make a huge difference

Both work, because both were used on heavily aged originals.

markslade07

WezV said:

markslade07 said:

So, if you’re going to heavy relic something, I assume ash may be the preferred choice in most cases as the wear might be down to the wood? Or, if it’s battered anyway, perhaps it doesn’t make a huge difference

Both work, because both were used on heavily aged originals.

Cheers Wez!