ideas wanted for a budget vocals microphone for home demo recording (female range, if relevant).

vale

the title says it. upfront I have to say I can’t sing and know literally nothing about microphones.

I can’t sing (too shy and I don’t feel I can sing tbh) and whenever I played somewhere there was an option to mic my guitar amp to the pa, it was always house mics. so have never bought a mic, ever.

anyway, I want to really get into making decent home demos with daw this autumn. I have a dedicated computer ready, a focusrite, an 88 key controller and basic drum pads, plus my guitar and bass kit. so the only thing missing seems to be basic vocals and non-vocals mics.

I have read a few home recording  threads here and the t-bone mb75 has been suggested a few times as a great budget general purpose non-vocals mic (amps, drums et al). reviews everywhere say it’s  good and it’s under £30 so seems perfect for me. which leaves the vocals mic.

I get a feeling vocals mics are more specialised than non-vocals mics, so maybe expecting something useful for the same price as the t.bone already mentioned is a tall order (though would be ideal, as that’s my level really).

because vocals mics are something spitty and sweaty in use,  I would rather buy new that used. I’m a bit phobic about the hygiene aspect. I know I won’t get as much for my funds, but that’s ok.

I don’t know what I want (regular, ribbon, whatever?). my voice is probably on the quiet side, female range (if that makes a difference). I do know I want to experiment with volume, shouting, screaming, whispering, so something that can handle a good dynamic range without buzzing is essential. in tone terms I prefer dark-warm to light-bright.

in use will be just me in a room at the local rehearsing space with a zoom recorder singing along to ideas. so doesn’t have to be tourworthy. I doubt I will ever gig it. I just want to make demos for me.

the two most interesting recommendations for vocals mics I have seen in threads here (from reliable sorts) are:

t.bone mb85 £30
behringer C-1 £40
se electronics SE2000 £50.

but am open to all ideas and suggestions. many thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Bridgehouse

I picked one up recently which does a decent job. I'll check what it is when I get home (out at work) but it wasn't expensive at all. 

Teetonetal

The C1 is decent enough for the price, good for vocals and acoustic guitar, I have mine permanently hooked up for getting things down quickly.

TTony

I bought a Shure PG58 - largely because it was Shure, but around half the price of the SM58!

https://homestudiobasics.com/shure-pg58-vs-sm58-is-there-a-difference/

Grangousier

Those options are all fairly decent, especially for the price. The thing I'd suggest first, though, is to use an SM58 or 57, especially if (as I suspect) what you're up to is quite punky. It wouldn't have the fidelity of a large-diaphragm condenser, but you can womanhandle it and noisemake right into it like you would at a gig (maybe even run it through something valvy to get the same kind of fun noise you'd have with overdriven guitars) - when you've got what you're doing down later on you can move to the slightly more reverential approach you need for big condensers and possibly employ the services of a studio for it. 

(Also, due to the nature of them, condensers are less likely to be spat into than 58s and you won't be getting that close anyway, so you don't need to worry about that so much.)

Jalapeno

Condenser mic and a pop-filter(yes even the proverbial pair of tights over a wire coat hanger will do). Much better results - but even better with a vocal shield. They used to be insane money but now ....

https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_micscreen.htm?ref=prod_rel_315144_4

https://www.thomann.de/gb/vicoustic_flexi_screen_lite.htm

Thomann/t.Bone do a great range of recording ribbon mics fro £30-£40 - but make sure you have a 48v supply from your interface or mixer to power them.

Funkfingers

You could do worse than begin by reading this Sound On Sound article.

mr-mac

I found Samson C05 CL stage condensor mic's on offer for about price range your looking at.  For me sound quality wise they totally trump the sm57/58 in sound quality and don't have the slight strange eq bump if you drop away from mic.

Ok it needs phantom power but for price you'll struggle to get better sound and (especially If have mixer that you can set phantom for individual channels) makes a brilliant mic for live use as well.

I found with quiet singers (esspecially on stage) i could get more gain out of these than sm57/58 and even more so against a shennheiser 818ii so could easily get quieter voices to gig volume without feedback or picking up too much of other instruments.  And they really picked up the quality and smaller changes in what the vocalist was doing very well indeed.

mr-mac

Bax have em at £35 at moment with 3yr warranty, clip and xlr cable https://www.bax-shop.co.uk/condenser-microphone/samson-c05cl-handheld-condenser-vocal-microphone

PolarityMan

There's a really cheap superlux clone of the rode nt-1 

https://www.thomann.de/gb/superlux_e205.htm

Outperforms my SE-X1.

vale

Teetonetal said:

The C1 is decent enough for the price, good for vocals and acoustic guitar, I have mine permanently hooked up for getting things down quickly.

thanks @Teetonetal the reviews for them are really good, but part of me can't help wondering whether (because of the price point) a large proportion of those reviews may be coming from people who haven't tried any more expensive mics. the difference between 'it's good enough for what i want it for' compared to 'it's good comapred to other mics i have used'.
that's sort of why i decided to ask here, as a lot of people here really know their kit. so will take your recommendation on that basis.

TTony said:

I bought a Shure PG58 - largely because it was Shure, but around half the price of the SM58!
https://homestudiobasics.com/shure-pg58-vs-sm58-is-there-a-difference/

thanks @TTony ;; they seem to have been discontinued and replaced with the pga58, apparently an improvement on what was considered (by most accounts) a great mic in the first place. https://www.thomann.de/gb/shure_pga58.htm
at the top+ of my budget (£60) so will weigh up among options and see how funds fall as the day i need to have one by approaches

Grangousier said:

Those options are all fairly decent, especially for the price. The thing I'd suggest first, though, is to use an SM58 or 57, especially if (as I suspect) what you're up to is quite punky. It wouldn't have the fidelity of a large-diaphragm condenser, but you can womanhandle it and noisemake right into it like you would at a gig (maybe even run it through something valvy to get the same kind of fun noise you'd have with overdriven guitars) - when you've got what you're doing down later on you can move to the slightly more reverential approach you need for big condensers and possibly employ the services of a studio for it. 

(Also, due to the nature of them, condensers are less likely to be spat into than 58s and you won't be getting that close anyway, so you don't need to worry about that so much.)

it's weird but i don't even know what my mic style is. am i a 'holder' or a 'stand and sing into' type? i have no experience of ever even trying. so your comment has made me think about the physical side of it in a way i hadn't really. i had only been thinking about the purely tonal side. thanks for that insight.
re the shures, a real sm58 or sm57 is beyond me, but the tbones seem to be highly rated soundalike and workalikes for them, which are already at the front of my thinking.

Jalapeno said:

Condenser mic and a pop-filter(yes even the proverbial pair of tights over a wire coat hanger will do). Much better results - but even better with a vocal shield. They used to be insane money but now

https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_micscreen.htm?ref=prod_rel_315144_4

https://www.thomann.de/gb/vicoustic_flexi_screen_lite.htm

Thomann/t.Bone do a great range of recording ribbon mics fro £30-£40 - but make sure you have a 48v supply from your interface or mixer to power them.

thanks @Jalapeno those shields look smart but not something i have the budget for, but you have made me think i should start fashioning something diy to do the same thing before i start. the rehearsal space is basically just stud walls and wall sockets. basic.
re the 48v, i haven't even taken my focusrite out of the box so no idea what it's got. your comment timely as it seems that is something i should know before i buy anything.

Funkfingers said:

You could do worse than begin by reading this Sound On Sound article.

comprehensive and then some! top recommendation. thanks @Funkfingers

mr-mac said:

I found Samson C05 CL stage condensor mic's on offer for about price range your looking at.  For me sound quality wise they totally trump the sm57/58 in sound quality and don't have the slight strange eq bump if you drop away from mic.

Ok it needs phantom power but for price you'll struggle to get better sound and (especially If have mixer that you can set phantom for individual channels) makes a brilliant mic for live use as well.

I found with quiet singers (esspecially on stage) i could get more gain out of these than sm57/58 and even more so against a shennheiser 818ii so could easily get quieter voices to gig volume without feedback or picking up too much of other instruments.  And they really picked up the quality and smaller changes in what the vocalist was doing very well indeed.

i know nothing of this eq bump but will look into it now. one of the few things i know about mics is that some have a very 'tunnelly' kind of range, and proximity to mouth makes a huge difference between booming and quiet. and then others seem to pick up everyithing in the room but are not so proximity sensitive re volume. 10cm or 30cm away not a huge difference.
i think funkfingers sos article will give me the what and why on that.
will check out the samsons (highly rated everywhere at first glance) and try to work out how they relate-position to others on my list.

PolarityMan said:

There's a really cheap superlux clone of the rode nt-1
https://www.thomann.de/gb/superlux_e205.htm

Outperforms my SE-X1.

thanks @PolarityMan ;; rode seems to get a lot of love in articles i read on recording, so a clone seems exciting. does clone mean clone, as in 'made from same parts to same specs' or is it just a look-a-like with a functionality that gets close? i know what a pedal clone is (a verbatim copy) but maybe that term means something different in mic land.

Funkfingers

vale said:

I want to really get into making decent home demos with daw this autumn. I have a dedicated computer ready, a focusrite, an 88 key controller and basic drum pads, plus my guitar and bass kit. so the only thing missing seems to be basic vocals and non-vocals mics.

Is the aim to create demo recordings in the certain knowledge that the music will eventually be re-recorded from scratch in a professional facility?

Is there any possibility that some elements of your rough out will be kept for the finished production? Some Peter Gabriel material evolves this way. He often begins a song with a beatbox, a synth drone (or a piano) and a vocal mic. World famous first call session musicians overdub their instrument parts. Editing happens. Sometimes, the guide vocal is never bettered. It has the desired vibe so it stays in the final mix.

The disadvantage of high quality microphones in a domestic situation is that they will probably reveal every acoustic imperfection in an unprepared room. (This is where the inevitable Sound On Sound duvet suggestion enters the equation.) 

vale

Funkfingers said:

Is the aim to create demo recordings in the certain knowledge that the music will eventually be re-recorded from scratch in a professional facility?

no. it will probably be a case of bouncing back between rehearsal studio and bedroom daw set up until i get something i'm happy with, or am unhappy with but don't know what else to do with.
in the unlikely event of my demise (vampire) i shall will it to humanity. probably david attenborough.

Funkfingers said:

Is there any possibility that some elements of your rough out will be kept for the finished production? Some Peter Gabriel material evolves this way. He often begins a song with a beatbox, a synth drone (or a piano) and a vocal mic. World famous first call session musicians overdub their instrument parts. Editing happens. Sometimes, the guide vocal is never bettered. It has the desired vibe so it stays in the final mix.

am as open to the first take being right as the hundreth. i'm pretty instinctive and know when i know, even if i'm not aware that this is the one as i am doing it (on other instruments).

as i say, my voice is kind of an unknown quantity. to be honest, i'm not even sure if i like it, but the aim of this experiment is to see if i can make any sounds i can like. otherwise i will have to get someone in and that's just drama and egos which i have enough of living on my own!

but that sounds like the approach i have. just drumbox, bass or synth line. bare bones.
from making demos previously my expereince is that the less you throw into the mix before you have a vocal melody the better, otherwise the singer is struggling to find anywhere to fit in around everything else going on.

Funkfingers said:

The disadvantage of high quality microphones in a domestic situation is that they will probably reveal every acoustic imperfection in an unprepared room. (This is where the inevitable Sound On Sound duvet suggestion enters the equation.) 

that's useful to be aware of, though maybe a bit of ambient wall-spanking and window-rattling will add something interesting. the thing i'm dreading most in with working with daw is that horrible airless claustrophobic compressed feeling. i absolutely hate it.
i've got a nice digitech reverb with lexicon reverbs, so will probably drown everything in that if i start feeling locked in. but that sos article will be my big sunday morning read. thanks for that.

mr-mac

The Samson is good at picking up vocals at close distance, So dropping off mic to sing louder but rejects backline/other sounds really well.

the hump occurs in some of higher end Sure SM mics when you drop away from mic you get a slight nasal eq bump (not bad but if recording it may be noticed).  Like i say sound quality of Samson c05 cl really is a sm57/58 beater and up with much more expensive mics into the £150-200 range.  Works great for vocals and does well for micing back line too.  Fantastic bit of kit. Even know of a guy who uses em 95% of time over £300 akg mics (because he says they are a lot cheaper to replace and side by side he doesn't feel the Samson really gives much to speak of away in sound quality)

I ended up with a batch of em and had some spare and two really good musicians, after having used em at full band open mic i run, bought one for themselves on the night.

Hopefully all the ideas from everyone will give you some ideas of items to look at.  Report back with what you buy and how you get on with it.

Teetonetal

@vale well, I also own a very nice se electronics valve mic. Clearly a better mic, more detailed and warmer but also more than 500 gbp new.

The thing is unless you have a well treated, well setup recording room, the benifit of all that extra sensitivity and det ail is nothing like what it ought to be.

The c1 is great for getting a demo track down. It's auduo quality to cost ratio is through the roof. Sure it's not perfect but it is good.

I entered this month's record a cover contest and used the c1 on the vocals. 



Else where I have a thread linking to a bunch of covers I did with the se on vocals and guitar. The room is the same and a poor one as it's just a spare room in my house.

I'm not good enough or have acess to a space that does my search justice. 

Oh and whatever you do, if you are recording vocals make or buy a pop filter. Essential bit of gear. More so than the mic imo

Jalapeno

vale said:

.....

Jalapeno said:

Condenser mic and a pop-filter(yes even the proverbial pair of tights over a wire coat hanger will do). Much better results - but even better with a vocal shield. They used to be insane money but now

https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_micscreen.htm?ref=prod_rel_315144_4

https://www.thomann.de/gb/vicoustic_flexi_screen_lite.htm

Thomann/t.Bone do a great range of recording ribbon mics fro £30-£40 - but make sure you have a 48v supply from your interface or mixer to power them.

thanks @Jalapeno those shields look smart but not something i have the budget for, but you have made me think i should start fashioning something diy to do the same thing before i start. the rehearsal space is basically just stud walls and wall sockets. basic.
re the 48v, i haven't even taken my focusrite out of the box so no idea what it's got. your comment timely as it seems that is something i should know before i buy anything.

Funkfingers said:

You could do worse than begin by reading this Sound On Sound article.

comprehensive and then some! top recommendation. thanks @Funkfingers

Paul White (editor SOS) usual recommendation is to hang a duvet behind the mic.  (Using some combo of mic-stands and broom handles, or a souple of cup hooks screwed into the wall and a bamboo).

vale

Teetonetal said:

@vale well, I also own a very nice se electronics valve mic. Clearly a better mic, more detailed and warmer but also more than 500 gbp new.

The thing is unless you have a well treated, well setup recording room, the benifit of all that extra sensitivity and det ail is nothing like what it ought to be.

The c1 is great for getting a demo track down. It's auduo quality to cost ratio is through the roof. Sure it's not perfect but it is good.

I entered this month's record a cover contest and used the c1 on the vocals.

Else where I have a thread linking to a bunch of covers I did with the se on vocals and guitar. The room is the same and a poor one as it's just a spare room in my house.

I'm not good enough or have acess to a space that does my search justice. 

Oh and whatever you do, if you are recording vocals make or buy a pop filter. Essential bit of gear. More so than the mic imo

hey @Teetontal ;;; that room treatment aspect is def something i will take from this thread that i hadn't even thought about when i made my op. i was totally tunnel vision re 'the thing (mic)', but get that the context (room and reflections) gives the thing its value. without which all much of a muchness.

will make a tights and coat hanger popshield and i have a sleeping bag i can fix to clippy-type skirt-trousers coat hangers re reflections shield. i think the vibration frames to hold the mics look like something i could fashion a version of too. bungees and a bicycle bottle rack or something. i'm pretty creative like that.

will read reviews of all the mics recommended over the week and maybe have decided by the weekend. i have a slow reading head thanks to fibro but will get there eventually.

many thanks for your tips and recommendation re c1. that is super-tempting being so cheap yet well reviewed. a rare combo.

vale

mr-mac said:

The Samson is good at picking up vocals at close distance, So dropping off mic to sing louder but rejects backline/other sounds really well.

the hump occurs in some of higher end Sure SM mics when you drop away from mic you get a slight nasal eq bump (not bad but if recording it may be noticed).  Like i say sound quality of Samson c05 cl really is a sm57/58 beater and up with much more expensive mics into the £150-200 range.  Works great for vocals and does well for micing back line too.  Fantastic bit of kit. Even know of a guy who uses em 95% of time over £300 akg mics (because he says they are a lot cheaper to replace and side by side he doesn't feel the Samson really gives much to speak of away in sound quality)

I ended up with a batch of em and had some spare and two really good musicians, after having used em at full band open mic i run, bought one for themselves on the night.

Hopefully all the ideas from everyone will give you some ideas of items to look at.  Report back with what you buy and how you get on with it.

that makes me a bit wary of the sures. i don't want to have to be trying to eq frequencies back in just because i moved out of range for a while (which is highly likely because i have absolutely no mic etiquette or discipline to call upon yet).
def an interesting quirk i hadn't heard of on mics that are supposed to be industry standards (as far as i've read).

the (reduced bax) samson and the c1 are the two cheapest options so will probably decide which of those best for my needs between them. the samson (being reduced) obvs looks more for the money, but not sure if it is right for me, and what the essential functional difference is between it and the c1 is. they look pretty different.
anyway, as already mentioned, this is a big learning curve for me so better get on with that sos article!

thanks for your advice and wisdom and will try to remember to report back on what i got, why, and how it worked out.

Funkfingers

vale said:

def an interesting quirk i hadn't heard of on mics that are supposed to be industry standards (as far as i've read).

The SM-57 and -58 dynamic microphones are industry standard in the sense that they are in common use. They are simple and tough enough to survive touring applications. They are by no means *superior* to other dynamic microphones of similar price or capsule diaphragm dimensions.

Trawl the mic manufacturers' web site product pages to find their recommendations for female vocal applications.

Teetonetal

@vale the tights / coat hanger combo does work well, served me through all of my 20's!! BTW another good trick is to setup your vocal booth in a wardrobe (I also used to do this. Put a duvet at the back, clothes to sides and doors (wedged) open, if you like you can even drape another duvet over the doors to create a ceiling and back "wall"

Does get very stuffy if you do more than 1 take, also you need a nice long lead in to the track so that you can get in, but can make a difference.

BTW if you do go for C1, remember it's a condenser mic, so therefore requires phantom power . quite a lot of mixing desks, multitrack and sound cards can do this, but check first - I'm not familiar with the focusrite, so can't say.

SM58 is surely the "industry standard" live vocal mic - I'm not sure it's so ubiquitous for recording, I found it good enough for electric guitars, not so great for recording my voice. But it would have the advantage of being a good live mic room should you need it.