NPD - Zoom G5n; update - the good, the bad and the ugly- and why it's not as gig friendly as hoped.

Voxman · August 2018

OK, following on from earlier thread, bought this off EBay and got it a couple of days ago but only unwrapped it today - all as described, brand new condition with a nice Zoom gig bag (just seen this sells for around £35 on its own!) to go with it, box, manuals, leaflets, PSU all there. It's a very nice size and weight and it appears well built with a metal (steel?) chasis.

Switched on perfectly, and boots up in 5 seconds. The LED displays are not huge but are surprisingly nice & clear with adjustable brightness/contrast. Dedicated foot-switch for the tuner that can be set as mute, bypass or full effect sound..I set to mute. The patch-up/down, memory/stomp and Tap pedals all operate smoothly & quietly, and the 4 patch/stomp foots-witches are likewise quiet and smooth. Although there is a red LED on the 4 footsitches, I'd like to have seen LED or fibre-optic illumination of the 5 function switches because on stage in dim lighting you won't be able to read them - but there's only 5 switches so it's pretty easy to remember which is which, and this unit new is about a 5th of the price of a Line 6 Helix so some compromises are inevitable.

For an initial run-through I used my Yamaha Pacifica 611VFM & just ran through the pre-sets that were there - aside from perhaps a dozen or so decent ones most were either heavily over-processed or un-useable designed to emphasise particular effects - but that's pretty par for the course with most MFX/modelling units, so I won't hold that against it. However, I'm not quite sure whether it has been re-set to factory patches - there seem to be a lot of metal patches in there. Software is version 3.0 and there are 16 amp models in there - I'll check & re-set it if needed, and I need to check if there are some new ones to add in (as Zoom seems to add new ones every month or so).

I went to some empty patches and quickly set up a very basic Marshall JCM800 patch with a little delay, spring reverb, plus a TS808 kick-in and some 'exciter' with a little EQ. I ran the Zoom through the front end of my Marshall Valvestate 8080 (clean channel) and was pleasantly surprised with the tone and bottom end. Similarly with a 1959 Bassman model and one of the Fender cleans. Tones felt very useable but I'm not sure yet whether the G5n can be made to sound as good as my Tonelab SE/LE units. First impressions are that the TLSE/LE amp models sound and feel more valve-like than the G5n but I'll need to play around with it and try them next to each other through the same amp.

However, I think the much smaller size and weight (even compared to the TLLE) and much better foot-switching options (as compared to its G5 predecessor) warrant spending some time with the G5n to see if it will suit me for rehearsals & gigging. And to be fair because the G5n appears to be very user friendly with an intuitive interface I haven't even opened the manual yet!

But because I picked it up for such a great price, I've already decided it's a keeper even if I just use it at home with headphones - as it sounds pretty good through my Bose headphones.

bingefeller · August 2018

Glad you're liking it - I think Zoom's stuff is great value for money. Their modelling is really good.

Voxman · August 2018

Ok quick update. Played it through my Laney VC30 2x10 with 1x12 extn cab. I'm very pleased with what I'm hearing so far .... the amp models and distortions sound very good, and the quality of fx esp reverb, delays and modulations, sound very good too. The 59 Bassman and JTM45 sound 'right' with nice bottom end and that characteristic classic grindy break-up with the gain up.

Still on a journey of discovery with the G5n ....there's a lot it does that's way more than my Tonelabs but its going to take a while to learn how to get the best out of it. The rhythm patterns and looper are fun to play along with, and you can mix more pedals and effects together plus you can even mix amp models together. And I really like the excited pedal which really helps make certain tones really come alive.

Originally I was just looking at the G3xn but I'm really pleased I got the G5n because it has a larger memory and superior switching options. The extra chain screen is very useful too. I haven't figured out all it's interface yet and there are some quirky bits, but I'm getting there.

Just made a clean patch with the Matchless DC30 amp model, adding some spring reverb & analogue delay. Wow...what a lovely amp model, so articulate, chimey, and warm.  I'm really liking this Zoom G5n more & more.

Voxman · August 2018

Update: Been playing with the G5n for several hours over this weekend and have replicated some of the patches from my TLSE. Tonally, it's capable of delivering some really good tones BUT there are problems.

Superficially the G5n looks as if it should be more flexible - it has (up to) 9 effect slots which you'd think should be plenty - but they aren't and here's why.

In the G5n, the amp model takes up 2 slots - add a cab, and a noisegate and that's four slots before you start. In the Tonelab SE/LE all of that is fully available before you get to modulation, delay, reverb, modulation and pedal. Yes you can have multiple delays, modulations etc in the G5n whereas in the TL's you can only select one from each section, but generally I don't need more than one from each. Now, if I want to set the foot treadle to control a function, in the G5n that takes up yet another one of the nine slots. Plus the TLSE/LE gives an additional 'Control' switch to kick in an effect without having to go into 'stomp box' mode.

And to get the basic amp models to sound as punchy and dynamic as the TLSE (which they can do) you need to add an EQ or Exciter.

So, I'm actually running out of 'slots' in the G5n to replicate what are relatively simple patches from my TLSE - not because I'm using a lot of effects, but because things like noise-gate, cab model, amp model, EQ and foot treadle control options are taking up so many slots.

And there's a further problem. When I rehearse I play my TLSE through an amp but at gigs I'll go straight through the PA. The TLSE lets you globally select either amp or line-outs which adjusts the units signal to suit (the TLLE gives you 5 output options - 3 amp output variations, a general line out setting, and a 2nd line-out which has an additional dedicated EQ). With the G5n there is no global parameter that does this. With the cab models there is a setting to switch on/off a mic simulation - mic on is like the line signal in the TLSE (it's too bright and harsh to have on when playing through an amp). But there's no global control - if I went from rehearsal room amp to gigging through the PA, I'd have to manually switch on the cab mic in each patch which is pretty useless.

In the G5n I do like:

its size & weight
it has a small light easy to replace PSU (the TLSE/LE PSU's are big, heavy 'industrial strength' units)
that I can set a 'solo' boost on each amp model (but you have to be in stomp mode to access it - with the original G5 there was a global boost that was easy to set and kick in for any patch).
Bright and clear lcd displays
The top lcd display showing all the chain for each patch
Pedal chain order flexibility - very easy to use
Pedal position swap feature - very useful
Upgradeability - Zoom are still adding new amp, cab and FX updates
Easy connectibility to computer, editing programme, external device source eg mobile phone
Looper (although it can't save loops - you need something like a Boss RC3 etc if you need that)
'Exciter' pedal effect
Very controllable cab models that you can actually 'tune' frequency and mic position wise
Rhythm patterns that you can set as needed

In the G5n there is a global output boost that acts like a tube-screamer but as far as I can see you can't set this to kick-in globally by footswitch - I'm not even sure yet if it can be controlled by the treadle kick-down in each patch - still reading the manual on that bit. But at the moment this global boost looks to be pretty useless 'live' as you have to turn it on/off and set the boost level manually. And although the amp modelling in the TLSE/LE may not on paper be as good as the G5n, in order to get similar punch/dynamics from the G5n amp models you will often need to add an EQ, exciter or similar effect to 'lift' the tone whereas the TLSE/TLLE amp model tones are just 'there' straight away.

In the G5n I don't like:

Needing EQ/Exciter to 'lift' amp modelling tones to match the dynamics/punch of my TLSE/LE
Lack of global amp/line output settings
Pedal control does not allow you to ease in/out amp gain - probably one of the most useful things the pedal should be able to do ...and yet it doesn't give that option.
A global boost that you can't kick in globally - you have to manually adjust it. With the G5 you could set it and kick it in on any patch.
Apart from the 'tap' led, none of the bottom 5 control pedals have led's- it would have been good to see some lighting (eg fibre-optic?) on the 5 control pedals as on a dark stage you can't see which does what.
The up/down buttons that scroll through all the amp, cab, effect, pedal options have to be operated by hand - it really wouldn't have taken much to allow these to be foot controllable.
It really doesn't have enough memory slots; you have to use up its memory slots for foot-treadle functionality, amp (2 slots!), cab & noisegate, looper uses up 2 memory slots (this was global in the G5!), and rhythm uses up a memory slot. An a 7 band EQ uses up 2 memory slots! 9 slots sounds a lot, but trust me, it's NOT. And if you have the G3n/xn you're even worse off because you only get 7 slots with these.
Lost features that the G5 had

So, can the G5n replace my big & heavy TLSE (or slightly smaller/lighter TLLE?) - I really, really wanted it to but I suspect the answer is probably going to be 'no'. It's a really great value MFX pedal that offers a lot of bang for buck, but although its functionality and switching options are hugely superior to its G5 predecessor, the designers still need to do some work to make it more practical for use by gigging players. They really need to sit down with gigging players to understand what the important stuff is, and what's just 'frilly' stuff.

In terms of total amp, cab, effect numbers there's a lot more in the Zoom G5n than the Tonelabs from the perspective of 'effect quantity' - its website page says it has 100 DSP effects, 13 amp and cab models. But that's a bit more now - amp and cab models are up to 16 each, and a few more FX have been added. The TL's have 16 amp & cab models too, 11 reverbs, 11 delays, 11 modulation, 16 pedals, plus noisegate and presence - but in truth, they're pretty much all you need for most things.

But the Tonelab SE/LE still provides way more amp and effects parameter control, and pedal control options.

Anyway, I'm still persevering with it and I want to hear how it copes at rehearsal and through the PA desk.

Voxman · September 2018

Well, the honeymoon period is over and I've decided the G5n has been designed by monkeys.

In the original G5, the amp model and cab are all selectable on a single screen taking a single memory slot. Takes 3 slots in the G5n.
7 band EQ takes 2 screen slots; 6-band in G5 takes one slot
Boost control doesn't have on/off kick in button on G5n; it does on G5
Looper can be kicked in globally on any patch in G5; in G5n you have to allocate a memory slot per patch (but at least not 2 slots as I originally thought)
The G5 does have global line level control; G5n doesn't

The only thing the G5n has got going for it over the G5 is better foot-switch control and (possibly) slightly better modelling quality. But the G5 is essentially a far better designed unit. Frankly, the Zoom designers were just crass stupid. All they needed to do was add additional switching to the G5 - instead they brought out a replacement that is actually worse in most other functional areas.

It's fine for a bedroom player (and I'll keep it for home use, headphones, looper & rhythm fun etc), it's lots of fun, sounds good, sturdy construction, nice size/weight - but too restrictive for my live gigging needs. So, I'm still stuck with my big & heavy Vox Tonelab TLSE because I've found nothing better for gigging that's smaller & lighter - even a Helix is a similar size and actually weighs more!

I'm pleased I bought used and didn't pay full price for it as I'd have been a bit disappointed! However, for what it cost me I think I'll keep it for home use and having created a few more patches based on YouTube examples it is capable of some really good tones.

Zoom - if you're looking in - for God's sake talk to real ordinary gigging players 're functionality before bringing out a replacement (and put back the global line out option!). The tones are great but whoever you're talking to at the moment is clueless 're functionality needs!

midlifecrisis · September 2018

i came to the same conclusion re the G3 and G3n. i have the G3 and was looking at a spare and was going to get a g3n but decided the G3 was better and bought another one of them.

Voxman · September 2019

BTW I sold it soon after my last post. Only thing I regret was selling the immaculate Zoom G5 I picked up for a great price thinking the G5n would be better. The G5 is WAY better designed. All it needed was better foot-switching options to make it more gig friendly. I checked with Zoom customer support whether there was a G5n replacement coming:

" Thank you for contacting us with your feedback. Currently there are no plans to release an updated model of the G5n. I will forward your suggestion to the engineers at Zoom Corporation in Japan to consider for a future product."

Littlejonny · January 2020

Sorry, I know it's an old thread - just reading your last comment...I currently have both G5 and G5n. Thre's no contest - the G5n has a much better overall sound. It's much fatter and more useful. That said, you are absolutely right about the functionality. My guess is that they used the same processor as the G5, but made the effects much higher resolution, thereby the unit is capable of less, although higher quality.

Voxman · January 2020

@Littlejonny ;. The amp modelling in the G5n is probably a little better but honestly there's not that much in it. Re fullness that's more to do with using effects such as 'Exciter' and 'Air' and I had to use these on the G5n too to fatten the tone. But I only bought the G5 to play around with at home on headphones - it's just more fun and easier to use than the G5n. For gigging I still use my Tonelab SE.

Littlejonny · January 2020

Have you actually A/Bd the G5 and the G5n? The tone character sounds completely different to me.

To my ears, each brand (we're talking low end modellers - I don't have direct experience of Kemper, AxFX or Helix) has their own character to the distortion structure. I can tell Boss ME stuff a mile-off, and the Zoom G5 has a definite character that is consistent throughout. I do hear more difference in the gain structure between the amp models (not so much the drive pedals) on the G5n. The Fender Twin for example, has that woolly gristle in the low end, while the AC30 has that glassy quality.

I also owned (and toured with) a Vox Tonelab. It was very good for it's time, and much better than the Pod 3.0 (it's Line 6 contemporary) but I came to dislike the distortion character, which had too many strange overtones in the high-end - I tried swapping out the 12AX7 but it was the same. It may have been that my ears had just cottoned-onto it?

I also had the Valvetronix amp, which was very impressive. I moved it on because although it sounded great for practice or recording, it sounded like absolute mush in a band-setting.

I used to really enjoy the old kidney-bean Pod 2.0, but I wonder what my ears would make of it now!

Back to this Zoom G5n - I can accept the fact the amp models take 3 slots, but the real problem for live use would be that you're stuck with those 3 amp-related slots in the middle of the chain, so you have to scroll left to turn on a drive pedal and scroll right to turn on a delay! They need to have a total re-think...

Voxman · January 2020

Yup, I've a/b'd the G5 and G5n. As I said it's for home practice only. The G5 is fun, the G5n is a little better sonically but a pain to use.

If you found the Valvetronix mushy in a band mix, that had to be the original AD60VT or AD120VT that was open backed, Vox branded Celestion Seventy Eighty speakers and mhd construction. Mine is the AD120VTX, closed back, birch ply cab, tweaked powerstage, Celestion 'Neodog' speakers, - an 80w version of the 60w Celestion G12 Neodymium Vintage. Totally different amps sonically, the VTX were brought out in 2004 specifically to address the mushyness you describe in the originals. With the VC12 controller and eq and bbe sonicstomp maximiser plus a bbe boosta grande in the fx loop, quite simply the best and most versatile all round gigging rig I've ever had. I just can't schlapp it around now so hence the Tonelab...never had a problem with overtones in either the TLSE or TLLE ( I have both).

're G5n, yup it needs a redesign in a load of areas, not just your very valid observation but all those Ive talked about before. Maybe the next version will be better.

Littlejonny · January 2020

uh oh now I need to check out the AD120VTX! Mine was indeed the AD60VT...

I had a good play with the G5n today and found the Fender Tonemaster model very satisfying. I will probably use that as the basis for all my sounds now...that tends to be how I use these modeling units, ironically: find the best sound (for me) and just use that!

I seem to remember favouring the AC15 on my Tonelab: I used it in everything except super clean (Twin reverb model for that).

On in my Boss GT it was the Fender Super Reverb model for everything (I actually hated everything else on it!).

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NPD - Zoom G5n; update - the good, the bad and the ugly- and why it's not as gig friendly as hoped.

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