Distance Swimming for Triathlons

roundthebend

I'm reasonably fit and athletic but have never been a great swimmer. I didn't really learn until I was 15, and even then only breastroke.

I cycle quite a bit, and can run a few miles despite finding it a bit dull and not pleasant on the joints. But it's enough to make me want to do a Triathlon.

In the past I've tried front crawl and found that one or two lengths (25m pool) ruins me. Until recently, when I joined the local pool and decided I was going to work on it for next year. 2 weeks later and I'm confidently doing 12 lengths (300m). My technique isn't great - I pretty much only breathe on the right, and I frequently swallow a bit of water or get it up my nose.

Anybody else here that has a similar story to tell? Any tips to share? My improvement has mostly come from talking to friends who have done triathlons and had similar trouble with the swimming. They all said to not worry about speed, just relax and find a rhythm which you can sustain for the distance. Largely it's more about the arms as the leg muscles are bigger and will tire you out, plus you'll need them for the cycling and running. Part of that relaxing has been to glide for longer, exhaling gently, and using long arm pulls.

m_c

Get some lessons would be my number one tip, so somebody can actually see what you're doing right/wrong, as there as so many minor things in swimming that can make a huge difference.

Front crawl 90% of your power should be from you arms, especially with longer distances where your legs should only really be helping to keep you balances in the water.

My own personal problem is breathing. I regularly struggle to find a nice rhythm, and end up out of breath, either due to not breathing enough, or trying to breath too much. On the occasion where I do find the ideal rhythm, it does feel good.

joneve

Unlike cycling and running, which don't really require good technique to be quite efficient, swimming is the complete opposite, and due to the density of the water, any bad techniques lead to inefficiency and fatigue rather quickly. 

As @m_c said, the majority of your propulsion should come from your arms, with your legs helping to maintain the right body position through the water (I don't even really use my legs if I'm swimming in a wetsuit and if I'm pool swimming my kick is basically non-existent, just enough to keep my form) 

I would 100% recommend swimming lessons for anyone who struggles as a couple of small adjustments can make the world of difference. I would consider myself a relatively strong swimmer, but will be looking to have a few lessons over the winter to improve my stroke further. 

thecolourbox

I did another triathlon this year, whilst being in a similar boat. I’m a good ish swimmer, but am rubbish at cycling so kind of the other way around to you, but understand both the wish to complete a tri whilst also fearing one leg of it in particular.

 

Firstly, bear in mind you won’t lose much ground if you’re rubbish at swimming compared to if you’re rubbish at cycling. I was 15-20 minutes behind the average on the bike, whereas if you’re not good at swimming you’ll probably only lose 5 mins or so on 750m which you could make up easily as a good cyclist.

 

But appreciate the idea isn’t damage limitation but improvement for you, so my tips for swimming in general would be as follows:

 

As others have said, technique is vital for swimming. I used to be County Level as a teenager but as a 30 year old I’m nowhere near brilliant and am lacking the fitness/strength/stamina/whatever to do well, however I can hold my own for a short while at least purely based on my technique.

 

There’s nothing wrong with only breathing one side, that’s what most people do. If you are swallowing water when turning to breathe I think it would be one of the following reasons – 1, you need to pull down stronger with your opposite arm to list your upper body up a bit when you’re breathing to the side, or 2, you may benefit from developing a bit of a rolling motion to your stroke. Fixing number 2 will allow you to avoid having to do number 1. Essentially you shimmy your shoulders with your strokes so that you kind of rock side to side, similar motion to if you swivel slightly left and right in an office swivel chair. That way, when you put your head up to breath, that side will be slightly higher already allowing you plenty of clearance to breath without drinking everybody’s sweaty chlorine water. This roll also helps with the rhythm that others have mentioned, which is very important for longer distance swimming.

 

Also try raising your head up if it’s not already, look where you are going rather than the floor. That means you need to turn your head less than if it’s fully down so it doesn’t disrupt your rhythm/roll etc.

 

Breathing (and not breathing) correctly is also really important, though I always find it hard to describe what I mean for this so bare with me. If you were to just lie on the surface of the water, on your front or back, with the intention of floating, whether you breathe in or out and then hold your breath makes a huge difference. I can float quite easily with no panic, my partner struggles because of this breathing. I think I breath in slightly but not much, then hold it and tense my upperbody to hold me in floating position. People seem to take huge gasping breaths and then wonder why they get to the end of the pool and are absolutely shagged (and could also contribute to the swallowing of water!). Take In just a little bit of breath, hold the upper body and release slowly through your nose, then repeat. If you are floating in a slightly not quite flat position in the water when swimming, the rest of the technique also helps.

 

Work on your arms as others have said, you’ll need your legs for the other sections of the tri. Also, if your kicking technique is bad, technically you can actually be propelling yourself slightly backwards which is weird – I tried to teach my mrs front crawl starting with the kick only (with a float) and she was somehow moving slightly backwards, it was bizarre. I’d never encountered that before but it was how she was bending her leg that was doing it.

 

If you get lessons or get to speak to a swim teacher/coach, ask them if hand paddles may be helpful. They are hard work but make your arm strokes way more powerful which might help you technique wise and strength wise

 

Lastly, my best tip for enjoying swimming is not to join the University of Birmingham’s swimming pool, though admittedly depending on your location this may not be a risk for you of course. It’s a rip off at £30 per month, when they don’t even have a fast lane when the pool is in 50m mode, meaning the normal average swimmers in the medium lane are stuck with keenos like me with no room to overtake so it all gets a bit het up in there.

 

If I think of any other technique stuff I’ll let you know. But really it’s what others have said – practice and lessons/coaching (bit like guitar really init) will put you on the right path.

 

Good luck 99

joneve

Oh yes, one thing I forgot to mention - DO NOT HOLD YOUR BREATH UNDER THE WATER between breaths. 

it's an easy mistake to make, but you should be blowing bubbles out, when you're under the water, so you only lift your head to take air in. So many people hold their breath then try and breath out and in on their head turns. This will make matters worse for you. 

axisus

I've always wanted to do a Tri! In my youth I would run 45 miles a week, cycle sometimes 200 miles a week but I couldn't swim to save my life.

Now I can swim (& cycle) but my joints are knackered for running. May still have a go ....

I started swimming every morning before work about 6 years ago. The first day, I thought I'd try front crawl, I couldn't even do one length of a 25m pool. I was gasping for breath and splashing like I was having a fit by the time I'd got to the other end.

Anyway, I kept going and after 2 weeks I'd got the basics down. A couple of months later and I was doing 50 lengths every day without stopping. Now I can just keep going for as long as I want - 1hr+. My fastest 50 lengths (1.25km) is 24.10.

What I would like to have a go at is open water swimming.

roundthebend

axisus said:

What I would like to have a go at is open water swimming.

Me too. My local Triathlon club do a marathon swim down the local river. Each week they do a 2 mile section in one evening, after about 13 weeks they've done the full 26 miles. I'd love to do that.

Couple of our local lakes run OW sessions too.

Alas, it'll be next year before I try that. Plenty of time to get my swimming distance up.
I'll be taking the advice of @joneve and @thecolourbox and getting some help with my technique during winter.

joneve

I cannot recommend Open Water swimming enough. 

It's really not as daunting as some people imagine it will be. The Wetsuit (if you get one that's designed for swimming) helps no end with keeping you buoyant.

The most difficult aspect is sighting, to make sure you're heading in the right direction, but once you've got that down, the world is your oyster. So much more fun/interesting that laps of a pool. 

thecolourbox

joneve said:

I cannot recommend Open Water swimming enough. 

It's really not as daunting as some people imagine it will be. The Wetsuit (if you get one that's designed for swimming) helps no end with keeping you buoyant.

The most difficult aspect is sighting, to make sure you're heading in the right direction, but once you've got that down, the world is your oyster. So much more fun/interesting that laps of a pool. 

For the Tri I did this year it was very warm and I didn't bother with a wet suit and was considerably faster than last time. Is the buoyancy thing more for those who are uncertain of open water swimming? Every person on the day said the same when I said I wasn't bothering with a suit, "Ahhhhh but the buoyancy!" But I beat all of them so I'm intrigued

Johnnyseven

I've been a swimmer since I was a kid and have only even taken a breath on my right when doing front crawl, so don't let that bother you. My advice for a better technique would be make your body as straight as possible and really stretch with your arms to get maximum benefit on each stroke. Also to build up do 2 lengths of crawl to 2 breast stroke and then build up the crawl lengths, using the time doing breast stroke as a rest.

roundthebend

Triathlon rules prohibit wetsuits with buoyancy (e.g. neoprene)
Some designs and materials, apparently, give a bit of lift by trapping some air. I guess the more buoyant you are the less energy you use trying to stay afloat. That could improve confidence for a swimmer, and/or increase the proportion of effort being used to propel you through the water. Likewise with a suit which decreases drag, and wearing a swim cap too.

I'm quite interested in the transition from water to bike. Part of me thinks I'd like to wear shorts and top separately, so I can change into a dry top for the bike.

joneve

thecolourbox said:

joneve said:

I cannot recommend Open Water swimming enough. 

It's really not as daunting as some people imagine it will be. The Wetsuit (if you get one that's designed for swimming) helps no end with keeping you buoyant.

The most difficult aspect is sighting, to make sure you're heading in the right direction, but once you've got that down, the world is your oyster. So much more fun/interesting that laps of a pool. 

For the Tri I did this year it was very warm and I didn't bother with a wet suit and was considerably faster than last time. Is the buoyancy thing more for those who are uncertain of open water swimming? Every person on the day said the same when I said I wasn't bothering with a suit, "Ahhhhh but the buoyancy!" But I beat all of them so I'm intrigued

No not at all, the buoyancy is for everyone...I would bet money (probably) on you being even faster had you worn a wetsuit and/or it would have felt like less effort. You probably beat them because you're a decent swimmer and they're probably not as strong, so even with added buoyancy, they're not as quick. 

It's not a magic suit that makes you swim faster, just keeps your hips nearer the surface (without having to do much leg kicking to keep your flat line), so makes you glide through the water better with less effort than without a suit. 

Like you, I did my half iron in just a tri suit as the water was quite warm - my swim time was just over 40mins...Had I worn a wetsuit I'd probably have been 5 mins(ish) faster, but then would have the faff of getting the suit off and would have lost more fluid from getting warmer in the wetsuit...so it's swings and roundabouts. I wouldn't do anything over 2000m in OW without a wetsuit in competition though (unless they were banned due to water temp), as it just tends to use more energy than required. 

joneve

Johnnyseven said:

I've been a swimmer since I was a kid and have only even taken a breath on my right when doing front crawl, so don't let that bother you. My advice for a better technique would be make your body as straight as possible and really stretch with your arms to get maximum benefit on each stroke. Also to build up do 2 lengths of crawl to 2 breast stroke and then build up the crawl lengths, using the time doing breast stroke as a rest.

Yea, bi-lateral breathing isn't the be-all-and-end-all. I do it, because I can and it's what I'm used to, but I doubt I'd lose much (if any!) time if I just breathed left (my favoured side)

axisus

If you want to improve, there are many superb videos on YouTube. I warn you now though, it's one thing knowing what to do and it's another thing entirely executing it! I have been trying to improve for years

Flametop

axisus said:

If you want to improve, there are many superb videos on YouTube. I warn you now though, it's one thing knowing what to do and it's another thing entirely executing it! I have been trying to improve for years.

Wis’d

Going back a few years, I ran a lot. I picked up a calf injury a couple of weeks before I was due to run a half marathon and figured that I didn’t want to lose too much fitness while I was injured so I decided to learn to swim (I didn’t own a bike and I’m not sure I’d have been able to ride one anyway).

A couple of visits to the local pool and some lessons convinced me that it wasnt going to be as simple as I thought. I had no confidence in the water at all and despite being in decent shape I was knackered within a couple of lengths. An internet search turned up a technique called total immersion. I found a coach who was using the technique, had around a dozen lessons and suddenly everything clicked into place. 

Having decided I could swim a bit, I entered an open water sprint tri, bought a bike and got busy. In May 2008 I proudly rocked up at a lake at stupid o’clock in the morning to my first race. I was last out of the water, having had the company of my very own rescue canoeist from about the 50m mark when she realised how shit I was. It was my first time open water and I zig zagged through 750m fighting some serious panic. 

I fell off the bike at junctions not once but twice due to a lack of experience being clipped in, and made up exactly one place on the run leg avoiding the ignominy of last place by the skin of my teeth. 

It was awesome. JFDI!!!

It’s addictive. I did an iron distance in 2012 after having done a good few more sprints, an Olympic distance and a handful of half irons. I was very nearly last out of the water in just about every tri I did, but managed to get to the point where I was able to get to the heady heights of mid-table mediocrity by making up time on the bike and run legs. 

Flametop

And all the time I was racing, I couldn’t breath bilaterally.  Weirdly, now I’ve stopped I seem to be able to breath both sides. 

joneve

Flametop said:

axisus said:

If you want to improve, there are many superb videos on YouTube. I warn you now though, it's one thing knowing what to do and it's another thing entirely executing it! I have been trying to improve for years.

Wis’d

Going back a few years, I ran a lot. I picked up a calf injury a couple of weeks before I was due to run a half marathon and figured that I didn’t want to lose too much fitness while I was injured so I decided to learn to swim (I didn’t own a bike and I’m not sure I’d have been able to ride one anyway).

A couple of visits to the local pool and some lessons convinced me that it wasnt going to be as simple as I thought. I had no confidence in the water at all and despite being in decent shape I was knackered within a couple of lengths. An internet search turned up a technique called total immersion. I found a coach who was using the technique, had around a dozen lessons and suddenly everything clicked into place. 

Having decided I could swim a bit, I entered an open water sprint tri, bought a bike and got busy. In May 2008 I proudly rocked up at a lake at stupid o’clock in the morning to my first race. I was last out of the water, having had the company of my very own rescue canoeist from about the 50m mark when she realised how shit I was. It was my first time open water and I zig zagged through 750m fighting some serious panic. 

I fell off the bike at junctions not once but twice due to a lack of experience being clipped in, and made up exactly one place on the run leg avoiding the ignominy of last place by the skin of my teeth. 

It was awesome. JFDI!!!

It’s addictive. I did an iron distance in 2012 after having done a good few more sprints, an Olympic distance and a handful of half irons. I was very nearly last out of the water in just about every tri I did, but managed to get to the point where I was able to get to the heady heights of mid-table mediocrity by making up time on the bike and run legs. 

If there's any tips you can offer, feel free. I'm booked up for Copenhagen next August! 

Flametop

I was in Copenhagen last Sunday for business while this year’s race was on. Looks like a great course!

I’m not sure I’m the best person to ask for tips, my racing was basically a catalogue of fuck ups, but here you go:

Find out what gels are available during the race and start work on your nutrition strategy straight away. Find out what you can and can’t eat and drink when you’re working hard. Then stick to it when you race. I had a gels and water only strategy which meant I was bloody starving 10 miles in to the run, ate a banana, then suffered from stomach cramps for the next 30 mins. 

Get your family on board early. I missed loads of family dinners, bed time stories etc. Which = negative brownie points. I sent a bunch of flowers each to my wife and two girls to arrive on the morning of the race which seemed to pretty much zero out the brownie points. 

If you have a favourite flavour of gel, make sure you carry a few spares in case the feed stations run out. 

Do loads of bike/run brick sessions. My staple Saturday was a 4 hour ride, 2 hour run. Then long run on Sunday while fatigued. 

Test all your kit the week before the race. My goggles developed a leak during the swim due to a knackered strap I later discovered. Sore eyes for most of the race. 

Use suncream judiciously. It stings like hell when it sweats down into your eyes. Especially when they’re already full of lake water and duck shit. 

Listen to your body, it’s as hard getting to the start line as the finish line. 

Make sure your bottles are snug in the cages. It’s very depressing to reach down for a drink and find it missing with 25 miles to the next feed station. 

Tape a couple of paracetamol to the bars on the bike. You’ll be glad you did at about 80 miles. 

Develop a mental coping strategy: mine was just to stay in the moment, and accept that the foreseeable future was eg swimming. 

Take a Sherpa. Having someone else to lug your kit back to the tent/hotel is very welcome. 

Don’t neck a pint of Guinness 5 minutes after finishing. Black vomit is quite unnerving. 

Oh, and learn to swim properly. 

Plenty more useless advice where that came from. Feel free to PM, or better still start a thread. 

thecolourbox

When I did my crappy little tri, I was explaining my planned attire to the other chap in the office who was doing it. I said I was going to wear my basic running vest thing and he looked at me like I'd just said I was going to wear a conical bra and heels. "But that's not a cycling shirt!" He managed to splutter out. I said "Well in that case I'd better withdraw from the race lest this controversial fact be noticed by the powers that be, and I get hung head first from the side of a rescue canoe." He eventually said.... "But what about pockets for your gels?!?!?!". I actually had no idea what he was talking about, still don't to be honest. The above post reminded me of it. What are they, like energy burst things?

I smashed a raw blackcurrant jelly about ten minutes before I swam, had a banana in transition one, then water the rest of the way and managed to beat Mr Cycle-Shirt Gelman

So, going back to the OP, I suspect you're likely to be aiming at a sprint distance - technique and practice is way better than relying on gadgets and sachets of nandrolone or whatever is in the gels

roundthebend

@thecolourbox yes, sprint distance is my target currently. I do seem to have a fast metabolism which means I stay very slim regardless of what I eat, but also that I get hungry after half an hour of exercise. I will probably take a banana for the ride and some sweets to nibble on.

I did a 20 mile ride last night and got cramp near the end, I think that's as much about the right nutrition during the day as it is about my fitness levels.

axisus

I'll tell you the hardest bit - getting off a bike and then running! I tried it once when I was fit with both cycling and running. Shot around for an hour on the bike, jumped off to run 7k and my legs were jelly. I'd say it needs serious practice.