NAD - Orange

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  • ThePrettyDamnedThePrettyDamned Frets: 7472
    edited April 2014
    I love the rockerverb. No idea how orangey it is, but the high gain is sublime.

    I only tried it because the Jim root terror is one of the best high gain practice amps I've ever heard, unlike the dark terror which I really did not like at all - fizzy and bright and not nice.

    Not sure how similar circuit wise they are but..
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71952
    The tone stack and phase inverter are 'Marshall type' (although also used by many other amps) rather than the Baxandall and cathodyne ones in the original Oranges. There isn't a lot else that's Marshall-like about it though - the tone stack is not even cathode-follower-driven like most Marshalls.

    Interestingly the power amp is 2-EL34 cathode biased, which is neither like old Oranges or Marshalls, or many other amps at all in fact. From memory it's even more unusual in that the bias is separate rather than common, which is more typical of a hi-fi design.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • ICBM said:
    Interestingly the power amp is 2-EL34 cathode biased, which is neither like old Oranges or Marshalls, or many other amps at all in fact.

    I thought that was pretty unusual as well - I've not come across anything else running EL34s in cathode biased "class A" mode.  I had to look up the specs in a few different places to convince myself it really didn't need biasing.  The HT-20 is a bit freaky as well, sort of cathode biased (class AB though I think) but still needs the bias set - dunno what's going on there.  I haven't looked what's in my Rocker yet, but it sounds fine (I think they usually came with JJs as stock from what I can find on the web).
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71952
    I thought that was pretty unusual as well - I've not come across anything else running EL34s in cathode biased "class A" mode.  I had to look up the specs in a few different places to convince myself it really didn't need biasing.  The HT-20 is a bit freaky as well, sort of cathode biased (class AB though I think) but still needs the bias set - dunno what's going on there.  I haven't looked what's in my Rocker yet, but it sounds fine (I think they usually came with JJs as stock from what I can find on the web).
    The Selmer Zodiac Twin 30 is the classic vintage example - that uses a common cathode resistor.

    There's also the Vox AC50 which runs them in combination bias with separate resistors - some of the voltage provided by cathode bias and some by adjustable fixed bias, which I assume is the way the HT-20 does as well.

    There's also the Ashdown Peacemaker, but that's not exactly a recommendation…

    Bear in mind cathode bias and Class A are *not* the same thing! This is a complete myth perpetated by some amp designers and/or marketing departments. Cathode bias and Class A have nothing to do with each other - you can have a fixed-bias Class A amp just as you can a cathode-biased Class AB one.

    Almost all guitar amps of either bias type are Class AB. It's even debatable whether single-endeds really count as Class A when they're biased the way most guitar amps are.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • Thanks @ICBM - I think my wording was a bit ambiguous.  What I meant to say was that I haven't heard of any other amp running EL34s with cathode bias which claim to be running in class A.  I know cathode/fixed bias and class A/AB are not the same thing (and that real class A operation can't really exist in a guitar amp - something to do with it having to be perfectly linear and not being allowed to clip isn't it?).  It would be possible to have a push-pull class A amp though wouldn't it - or does it have to be single ended?

    Anyway, guitar amps that claim to be class A are usually running EL84s and cathode biased from what I've noticed.
    And ones that run EL34s are usually fixed (adjustable) bias and stated as class AB.

    So the cathode biased, "class A", EL34 combination in the Rocker seems doubly odd to me.

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71952
    It's certainly rare, partly because it's fairly cost-inefficient relative to power output. The Orange is not Class A though - as usual that's marketing, it's Class AB.

    Yes, you can have push-pull Class A - in fact, the definition is only really useful there. In a single-ended, if it's biased correctly it will always be Class A - that doesn't stop a lot of guitar amps not being though! You certainly can have Class A in a guitar amp, but for anything other than strictly clean sounds it's a bit pointless because the definition only applies to undistorted signals! Although you can still have a (preamp or pedal) distorted signal that is them amplified cleanly by a true Class A power stage.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • There is a Laney, the 50 watt lionheart, which runs 5xel34s for 50 watts, which I guess is a similar principle.

    That is an incredible sounding clean amp, or as a rock amp, or as a clean platform. It's stunning to hear - one of the only amps that I thought sounded a bit magic.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71952
    There is a Laney, the 50 watt lionheart, which runs 5xel34s for 50 watts, which I guess is a similar principle.
    Even more so -  that's a 5x parallel single-ended amp, quite possibly unique, and may well be true Class A... I've only played one once, and didn't have the opportunity to analyse it:). It did sound very good though.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • ICBM said:
    There is a Laney, the 50 watt lionheart, which runs 5xel34s for 50 watts, which I guess is a similar principle.
    Even more so -  that's a 5x parallel single-ended amp, quite possibly unique, and may well be true Class A... I've only played one once, and didn't have the opportunity to analyse it:). It did sound very good though.
    I do tend to like Laney amps for bang for buck, but when I heard this one (didn't play through it myself, but was in store when someone turned it up) it was the first time since I first heard a 6505+ going through a 4x12 that I just had to turn around and listen.  It was just a stunning sounding thing.
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  • DartmoorHedgehogDartmoorHedgehog Frets: 884
    edited April 2014

    Cleaned the inside out today - extremely dusty, wouldn't be surprised if the back's never been off.  So I suspect the valves may be as supplied stock...

    Power valves are JJ EL34 as expected, but preamps are some unbranded ones, two marked E83CC (?) and one ECC83. Any idea what they are @ICBM or other techy people?

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  • samzadgansamzadgan Frets: 1471
    Hmmm...mine may not have been stock but the preamps in my old one were all JJ's
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71952

    Cleaned the inside out today - extremely dusty, wouldn't be surprised if the back's never been off.  So I suspect the valves may be as supplied stock...

    Power valves are JJ EL34 as expected, but preamps are some unbranded ones, two marked E83CC (?) and one ECC83. Any idea what they are @ICBM or other techy people?

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    Those are Chinese of some description - the double chrome strips are distinctive.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • Thanks.  I had a look on the Orange forum as well, and it seems like they did use Chinese valves in some and JJs in others, seemingly randomly, so they may well be the stock valves for this amp.  They sound fine to me so I'll just leave them alone for now.  Just wanted to make sure they weren't something old and valuable before they end up randomly swapped with my other 12AX7/ECC83s (mostly TADs and JJs).
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  • KerpunkKerpunk Frets: 75
    Very jealous. Congrats!
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  • Used the Rocker 30 "in anger" for the first time at band practice on Tuesday.  Absolutely superb!  The dirt channel is just the sound I was after, and extremely touch-sensitive (my HT-20 is much more compressed and forgiving of sloppy picking!) which once I get used to it will be really useful.  And the gain control is a much more sensible range for me - I find myself running it around half way up, whereas I was balancing the HT gain right at the bottom of the scale for my tastes, even with a lower gain preamp valve fitted.

    But the clean ("natural") channel is the big surprise.  It seems like people either love or hate the single gain stage, single knob simplicity of it, but I have to say it works perfectly for my playing - really nice warm yet clear sound (I've tried it with humbuckers and P90s so far, both sound excellent), with enough headroom for me (some people complain it's not enough, but works for me) and breaks up at "out of the house" volume easily enough with a heavy hand or a bit of boost.  Couldn't be happier.

    So, I need to concentrate on my picking/strumming strength consistency (which is no bad thing) after getting a bit lazy while using the Blackstar, but I'm happy enough to take the Rocker to our gig next week :) (must remember to put it on my insurance cover)

    Massive thanks to people who steered me in the Rocker 30 direction - I've been a big Orange fan for ages but it was one I hadn't tried, so I sort of bought it semi-blind (should that be deaf?) going by people's comparisons with other Oranges I had experienced.  Spot on, I think I did the right thing :)

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71952
    :)

    I think that if there was a Top Ten of discontinued modern amps which shouldn't have been, this one would be pretty high up on it.

    Along with the Trem-o-verb, of course ;).

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • BigBearKrisBigBearKris Frets: 1747
    Bit of a necrobump, but have to say that I purchased Rocker 30 just last week and I'm loving. It's a combo, sounds great, well built and so far it's simplicity is only an advantage as I spend more time playing than fiddling with the controls. Awesome amp.
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  • I'm still completely in love with mine, so much so that I've just sold my HT20 because I just ended up using the Orange for everything and the Blackstar wasn't getting a look in.
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  • BigBearKrisBigBearKris Frets: 1747
    Have You changed the valves in Yours? I usually do that with every "new" amp I buy. Valves seem to be perfectly fine in that one, but was wondering about Your experience?
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  • No, it's still as it came so far, haven't got around to fiddling yet.  JJ EL34s and the Chinese ECC83s.  Sounds very good though.
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