How much difference do valves make?

ruralfrance

So I’ve sorted the guitar, amp and pedals but GAS is a cruel mistress...

I have a 5F1 tweed champ in a deluxe cabinet with a 12” eminence speaker.  Nice simple amp that does everything I need.  

In your opinion, is it worth forking out for some NOS valves?  Am I venturing into cork-sniffing territory or will they genuinely make a difference?

breezytele

IMHO, spend your good money otherwise.
Apart from the pitfalls of finding genuine NOS, I honestly doubt whether one would pick them out in a double blind trial.

And then there’s the asking prices for NOS valves..

The only plus I can see, is just how few valves you’d need to buy for a 5F1

Modulus_Amps

do you not like the sound of the amp, or what do you want from it

Different valves do sound different, you don't even need to go NOS, but if you wanted the amp brighter, warmer etc then a valve change may help

ruralfrance

Love the sound but might be up for making it a smidge brighter.  Any suggestions?

RiftAmps

ruralfrance said:

In your opinion, is it worth forking out for some NOS valves?  Am I venturing into cork-sniffing territory or will they genuinely make a difference?

NOS valves (and ANOS) are interesting...some people can hear a difference over MP, others can't at all. Me? I can hear the differences between two different valves in a blind test, whether or not they're NOS. Does the NOS always sound better? Absolutely not.

Some NOS will make your amp sound measurably worse - I have a few yellow-print Mullard ECC83s that'll ruin the tone of any amp you plug them in to, despite testing 'as new'. Some will make an improvement, some will just be different.

Is it worth buying them? Maybe, maybe not. I no longer actively search out NOS valves, prices are crazy and I've found MP stuff that is a) more consistent and b) sounds just as good. On the other hand, the mojo of having them in your amp might inspire you to play more, so the cost-v-benefit might still be worth it.

ruralfrance

Right, don’t think I’ll bother.  Thanks chaps, just saved me a few bob!

ICBM

In my opinion they do make a differenc - more in some amps than others though, I’ve come across some where you couldn’t hear any at all, and others where it was very obvious.

A 5F1 only takes three valves so it isn’t going to break the bank to find out, especially if you don’t buy the most hyped brands. If you want a brighter sound then *in general* US-made valves will probably give you that, to me they often have a clearer tone.

The 12AX7 and 6V6 will make a much bigger difference than the 5Y3 - although many modern 5Y3s aren’t correct to the original spec so there still may be a difference.

Dominic

Sorry to hijack...... but along same lines what are the differences between EL34 and 6V6 in an amp that can take either subject to correcting the bias.
I know the 6v6 will be approx 50% of the vol /power but what tonal difference.
Will you get more Bass from el34 and what about more crisp definition in the top end ?
Would this also be hard to hear the difference or very obvious ?

ICBM

Dominic said:

Sorry to hijack...... but along same lines what are the differences between EL34 and 6V6 in an amp that can take either subject to correcting the bias.
I know the 6v6 will be approx 50% of the vol /power but what tonal difference.
Will you get more Bass from el34 and what about more crisp definition in the top end ?
Would this also be hard to hear the difference or very obvious ?

Fairly obvious. The 6V6 should be softer, more compressed and more midrangy.

Bear in mind that some of this will be due to the difference in impedance matching to the speaker though - without changing the transformer ratio, one or the other must be mismatched, and that will also noticeably affect the tone. Generally a better match produces more low and high end response. I would expect it to be designed for a better match with the EL34 because this will give the most power with that, and exaggerate the difference between them which is more useful than the other way round.

Dominic

Thanks for that ......noted.........

p90fool

I built a 5F1 and IMO it is one of those amps where different brands make quite a significant difference.

Whether that means going NOS or not is a matter of taste, but at least it's cheap to find out.

jpfamps

p90fool said:

I built a 5F1 and IMO it is one of those amps where different brands make quite a significant difference.

Whether that means going NOS or not is a matter of taste, but at least it's cheap to find out.

I'd agree with this.

The 5F1 has a very small component count, so varying one component can have significant influence on the sound.

I tend to use NOS 5Y3s are these are pretty much the same price as modern production 5Y3s, but in my experience much more robust.