Reduction in electric power usage in our house

Rocker

We bought a new fridge, which is rated at A++.  This replaced our old fridge/freezer which had no power rating as it was old.  We have a power usage device and with the old fridge in use, the lowest power usage was around 300 watts.  Now it is at least 100 watts less.  Result.

ESBlonde

It's an interesting connumndrum. We can save home energy on a daily basis but what energy and resource are used up replacing all these old devices.

For instance I've just replaced a 30 year old chest freezer that I got from my parents when they were about to throw it out 15 years ago to get a bigger one, it still works although the seal around the lid was starting to fail. The new upright unit is A++ rated so daily use will cost less, but what cost is applied to recycling my old unit and making this new one, also will this new unit still be working in 30 years? I'm sure someone has done some numbers somewhere.

I'm very concious of energy use, the house if substantially insulated (except the floor), I have solar panels, low energy light bulbs (although they don't seem to last very long despite all the claims and I think on a cost to replace basis the old style bulbs were cheaper overall). I'm hoping that LED lighting technology will prove to superior in the long run, but again ripping out and replacing perfectly good light fittings is not energy efficient either.

My home runs significantly below what my energy suppliers tell me is the average for such a property, that may be aided by the lack of 'small persons' these days so a direct comparison is not always what it seems.

I'm not sure one of these fancy electric meters is the answer either, there are lots of reports of failures and inaccuracies following installation, and guess who pays! It's not hard to figure where the cost is accrued, each unit has a maximum current draw (nominal draw might be somewhat lower). Current draw x time gives agood idea of what cost money, just turn off what you don't need and turn off all these modern units on standby, it's a waste of energy all day every day. Charging up you phone to turn on the TV and sound bar while dimming the lights is all energy consumption!

crunchman

The cost manufacture and transport does need to be considered as part of the whole life cost.

I'm switching over to LED lighting, but I'm using up all my CFL bulbs first, and waiting for them to fail.  I have one room that still has an incandescent bulb that is probably at least 12 years old.

ICBM

A few days ago one of the five ceiling downlights in my bathroom died - they're the typical 12V reflector ones, 50W each in this case. So today I went and bought a box of LED replacements, and changed the dead bulb... I was planning on doing the others as and when they went. But the new bulb didn't work either - so I realised it was actually the transformer unit that had failed. Grrr. But then I thought that since the LEDs draw so much less power - 5W each - I could easily just rewire them so two of the new bulbs are driven from one of the transformers, rather than buy a new transformer - in fact, I could replace *all* the transformers with just one... so another three can fail before I have to buy anything.

Since it was no longer looking like a 2-minute job, I just did it properly and replaced all five bulbs... so now the total power consumption is 25W, not - and this rather shocked me, since I hadn't really thought about it properly before - 250W, or *a quarter of a kilowatt*. And not only that, despite having an 'equivalent wattage' of only 35W, that's obviously wrong since the new bulbs are *brighter* than the old ones - ie they are more than ten times as efficient, and that's saved energy that was being wasted purely to heat the loft, since they're in the ceiling.

strtdv

Yes it's definitely a big difference when you change. Our house has lots of GU10 bulbs, I've changed the majority to LED and the power consumption of the house lighting has gone from 2kW to 300 watts

ICBM

The daft thing is that I had already done all the full-size bulbs and most of the other more specialised ones... I’d just overlooked these, partly because they’re not on that much - although having thought about it, over an hour a day, which is not trivial, unlike something like a cupboard light - and partly because I actually hadn’t realised they were as much as 50W each.

Annoyingly I have no other use I can think of for the redundant incandescent bulbs now - although I won’t throw them out.

spark240

ICBM said:

A few days ago one of the five ceiling downlights in my bathroom died - they're the typical 12V reflector ones, 50W each in this case. So today I went and bought a box of LED replacements, and changed the dead bulb... I was planning on doing the others as and when they went. But the new bulb didn't work either - so I realised it was actually the transformer unit that had failed. Grrr. But then I thought that since the LEDs draw so much less power - 5W each - I could easily just rewire them so two of the new bulbs are driven from one of the transformers, rather than buy a new transformer - in fact, I could replace *all* the transformers with just one... so another three can fail before I have to buy anything.

Since it was no longer looking like a 2-minute job, I just did it properly and replaced all five bulbs... so now the total power consumption is 25W, not - and this rather shocked me, since I hadn't really thought about it properly before - 250W, or *a quarter of a kilowatt*. And not only that, despite having an 'equivalent wattage' of only 35W, that's obviously wrong since the new bulbs are *brighter* than the old ones - ie they are more than ten times as efficient, and that's saved energy that was being wasted purely to heat the loft, since they're in the ceiling.

You don’t usually retain the transformer for GU10 Led ?

shrinkwrap

I tried replacing my 12v halogens with LEDs and some of them flicker like a strobe. Different LEDS require different transformers apparently (constant voltage vs constant current). Lights in kitchen have correct transformer, the others don't. So I may as well convert them to mains and throw away working transformers. Or figure out a circuit to drop the power to 9 volts and use them for pedals.

The mains voltage GU10s have micro transformers built in which get thrown away each time and yet to find a recycling place for bulbs.
Doesn't the drive to the recyling place use more resources than the recycle value too?
Not easy keeping the planet clean!

Alvin

spark240 said:

ICBM said:

A few days ago one of the five ceiling downlights in my bathroom died - they're the typical 12V reflector ones, 50W each in this case. So today I went and bought a box of LED replacements, and changed the dead bulb... I was planning on doing the others as and when they went. But the new bulb didn't work either - so I realised it was actually the transformer unit that had failed. Grrr. But then I thought that since the LEDs draw so much less power - 5W each - I could easily just rewire them so two of the new bulbs are driven from one of the transformers, rather than buy a new transformer - in fact, I could replace *all* the transformers with just one... so another three can fail before I have to buy anything.

Since it was no longer looking like a 2-minute job, I just did it properly and replaced all five bulbs... so now the total power consumption is 25W, not - and this rather shocked me, since I hadn't really thought about it properly before - 250W, or *a quarter of a kilowatt*. And not only that, despite having an 'equivalent wattage' of only 35W, that's obviously wrong since the new bulbs are *brighter* than the old ones - ie they are more than ten times as efficient, and that's saved energy that was being wasted purely to heat the loft, since they're in the ceiling.

You don’t usually retain the transformer for GU10 Led ?

    When you tried one lamp on one transformer the transformer was "probably" working , they need a load to work , they are designed to give out the full load not a reduced load of 5w , they just do not like it , which is why they work with an increased load .  The mains transformers are AC but leds should be run on a DC driver for them to work and last properly .   Some 12v leds will run on standard AC transformers but it is not ideal .  12v leds are one to avoid if you don't want problems  , you are better off either converting them to 240vAC gu10 types or replacing the fittings all together to 240v so you get rid of the seperate transformers.

ICBM

These bulbs are MR16s not GU10s, and they have separate transformers - I think technically they’re switch-mode supplies since they’re not heavy - I’ll open up the dead one and find out. They are clearly designed to take AC since there is no polarity on the bulbs and they work either way round, so there must be a rectifier in the bulb base.

Replacing them all with 240V fittings would be a major pain since some of them are very hard to get to in the loft - behind the water tank and under the lowest part of the slope of the roof - luckily the one that died was one of the easier ones. I can live with another transformer or two dying before I have to think about that...

Emp_Fab

A quick calculation says you've saved yourself about £49 per year.

ToneControl

ICBM said:

A few days ago one of the five ceiling downlights in my bathroom died - they're the typical 12V reflector ones, 50W each in this case. So today I went and bought a box of LED replacements, and changed the dead bulb... I was planning on doing the others as and when they went. But the new bulb didn't work either - so I realised it was actually the transformer unit that had failed. Grrr. But then I thought that since the LEDs draw so much less power - 5W each - I could easily just rewire them so two of the new bulbs are driven from one of the transformers, rather than buy a new transformer - in fact, I could replace *all* the transformers with just one... so another three can fail before I have to buy anything.

Since it was no longer looking like a 2-minute job, I just did it properly and replaced all five bulbs... so now the total power consumption is 25W, not - and this rather shocked me, since I hadn't really thought about it properly before - 250W, or *a quarter of a kilowatt*. And not only that, despite having an 'equivalent wattage' of only 35W, that's obviously wrong since the new bulbs are *brighter* than the old ones - ie they are more than ten times as efficient, and that's saved energy that was being wasted purely to heat the loft, since they're in the ceiling.

at our last house, we wired GU10s for the kitchen
With halogens, it was over a kilowatt!
we used compact fluorescents for years, not very good, and still 7W or 11W each, I forget
the 5W, 6W LEDs now are amazing, there are some crap brands around though that are not bright, or do not last, or are too blue.
I've been trying to buy dimmable ones over the last few years, there are some good compatible dimmer switches available

ToneControl

Alvin said:

spark240 said:

ICBM said:

A few days ago one of the five ceiling downlights in my bathroom died - they're the typical 12V reflector ones, 50W each in this case. So today I went and bought a box of LED replacements, and changed the dead bulb... I was planning on doing the others as and when they went. But the new bulb didn't work either - so I realised it was actually the transformer unit that had failed. Grrr. But then I thought that since the LEDs draw so much less power - 5W each - I could easily just rewire them so two of the new bulbs are driven from one of the transformers, rather than buy a new transformer - in fact, I could replace *all* the transformers with just one... so another three can fail before I have to buy anything.

Since it was no longer looking like a 2-minute job, I just did it properly and replaced all five bulbs... so now the total power consumption is 25W, not - and this rather shocked me, since I hadn't really thought about it properly before - 250W, or *a quarter of a kilowatt*. And not only that, despite having an 'equivalent wattage' of only 35W, that's obviously wrong since the new bulbs are *brighter* than the old ones - ie they are more than ten times as efficient, and that's saved energy that was being wasted purely to heat the loft, since they're in the ceiling.

You don’t usually retain the transformer for GU10 Led ?

    When you tried one lamp on one transformer the transformer was "probably" working , they need a load to work , they are designed to give out the full load not a reduced load of 5w , they just do not like it , which is why they work with an increased load .  The mains transformers are AC but leds should be run on a DC driver for them to work and last properly .   Some 12v leds will run on standard AC transformers but it is not ideal .  12v leds are one to avoid if you don't want problems  , you are better off either converting them to 240vAC gu10 types or replacing the fittings all together to 240v so you get rid of the seperate transformers.

similar with dimmers, if you get dimmable LEDs, you can't use just one LED, and you can't go up to the full rating of the dimmer. The LED lights' load is different in some way I can't remember

ICBM

Emp_Fab said:

A quick calculation says you've saved yourself about £49 per year.

And the new bulbs were £12 for all five.

In the event, the dead 'transformer' proved easy to repair - it is a switch-mode type, and all that had happened was that the output choke had overheated and desoldered one of its pins. I've fixed that, so now I potentially have four spares just in case there is some problem with them being run less loaded. In fact, if I'd just done that before I went and bought the new bulbs I could have not bothered... except for the bit about wasting a vast amount of energy and money, so I'm not exactly annoyed about it .

Emp_Fab

Sorry @ICBM, I was referring to the OP's fridge.

ICBM

Emp_Fab said:

Sorry @ICBM, I was referring to the OP's fridge.

I've just done the calculation anyway - 225W less for roughly 10hrs a week, 52 weeks a year, at 13.5p a kWh is still nearly £16 a year, so the bulbs will have paid for themselves before the warranty even runs out.

Alvin

@ICBM were you aware that the 12v halogen lamps you were using have now been banned (no longer allowed to manufactor but you can buy if available) . Yes an EU ruling . So changing them to leds's was a good idea. 

  The only problem is not everybody will be so lucky  @shrinkwrap ;; as getting the 12v lamps to work with AC transformers isn't guaranteed . @ToneControl dimmers are even worse  .  When you buy the dimmable lamps , are there any instructions or reccomendations on what dimmers to use ? More than likely no , because there are to many for them to test with .     The other problem is that they are not like the old lamps , they could only be made one way , now you have put electronics into the mix and these lamps can be made different ways which is why there are so many compatability problems . 

   They are far from perfect still but we have no choice as the old lamps have been banned , for the 240v gu10 type that wasn't such a problem but it was wrong to ban the 12v .  There are a lot of people out there with these lamps and for them it won't be a straight forward swap .

 

 

 

ICBM

Alvin said:

@ICBM were you aware that the 12v halogen lamps you were using have now been banned (no longer allowed to manufactor but you can buy if available) . Yes an EU ruling .

Aha... you mean I can sell the old ones for lots of money to people who want to defy the EU and its dictatorial rules?

Alvin said:

There are a lot of people out there with these lamps and for them it won't be a straight forward swap .

Or more sensibly, if changing them is a massive pain. If mine had been fitted into a false ceiling rather than straight through into the loft space where I could get at the wiring, it would have been a right one...

Danny1969

Generally an LED bulb has a built in Buck converter so varies the width of the switching pulse to obtain the required voltage referenced to it's fixed volt ref ....  when averaged out across an inductor ... if you give it a lower voltage it will increase the width of the on pulse to maintain the output so in general these older ones don't work with dimmers. The newer ones have variable reference so if volts drop on input to buck convertor then change output reference accordingly to allow dimming .... it kind of works but in discrete chunks  .... least on the ones I've just brought 

The biggest saving I've achieved is by switching to a Halogen oven a couple of years ago. A standard gas or electric oven does fuck all in the first 10 mins except pre heat it's self. By that time a Halogen oven has cooked a frozen pizza using 1100 watts in 9 mins. A full roast dinner for 5 takes 100 mins at 1100 watts with a duty cycle of 80 % on to off during that time. It's the cheapest and fastest way to cook. 

crunchman

Does anyone know how to make my wife and daughters turn lights off?

Phil_aka_Pip

Alvin said:

AC transformers

Is there any other kind? Never heard of one that could work with DC